Are Mormons REALLY the unbiblical ones?

[AeonJ]

Where in the the Bible does it teach the "Trinity?"
Where's the word "Rapture?"
Where does it teach the Bible that it is the sole source for doctrine?
Where does it teach "faith alone is enough to be saved?"
Where does it state The Church is just a "Body of Believers" and not one body? Basically explain how Protestantism is biblical?
"The Eucharist?" (for Cathllics?)
Baptizing Infants?
The notion of creeds?


The answer is nowhere!

Only people who cherry-pick lines from the Bible can answer these questions with a "yes" even though it's never REALLY there unless you use a lot of creativity.

So who are REALLY the unbiblical ones here?

...not Mormons...

Baptism for the Dead (in the Bible)
Three Heavens (in the Bible)
Other Sheep/ Stick of Ephraim (people of the Book of Mormon) (in the Bible)
Prophets and Apostles (in the Bible)
Melchizedek Priesthood (in the Bible)

Makes you think, huh?

 

[branchofthevine]

where is the historical records of there being a giant empire in North America being destroyed leaving no evidence and also there being a battle with millions of participants yet no evidence for it. Also how about Jesus and Satan being brothers? Sure they sound legit. :/

Where in the the Bible does it teach the "Trinity?"
Where's the word "Rapture?"
Where does it teach the Bible that it is the sole source for doctrine?
Where does it teach "faith alone is enough to be saved?"
Where does it state The Church is just a "Body of Believers" and not one body? Basically explain how Protestantism is biblical?
"The Eucharist?" (for Cathllics?)
Baptizing Infants?
The notion of creeds?


The answer is nowhere!

First off the word trinity no, that's true, yet the principle is there with God being called Father (Jesus being the first to know God as Father), and there is the Son (Jesus, the Messiah which the Jews were expecting -> read Old Testament to understand), and the Holy Spirit (mentioned in Psalms, and many times in the New Testament, also called other names like the Spirit of Christ etc.)

Rapture does not occur really in scripture, and the principle is highly debatable. It is not a sure doctrine but follows under a line of interpretation of the "end times" prophecies, so there is no real point in bringing it up.

The Bible is called the Word of God and in one of the letters of Timothy Paul says that it is profitable for sound Doctrine, so for sound doctrine yeah, and basically all other teaching is based on the Word of God, most of which comes from theology of the Old Testament in which most Christian doctrines are founded.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast." There you go.

Read Paul's letters like Ephesians and see how Paul says stuff like "You are all members of one body." Maybe if you actually researched the Protestant reformation you would understand more of how they wanted to reform the Church of the heresies that crept in. Prove how it isn't Biblical with some intelligent and logical arguments made from research.

Don't just assume statements without researching them because you end up looking like an idiot when someone who knows what they are talking about comes along and proves you wrong. What will happen to your pride then? Won't you just get mad and dig yourself a deeper hole?

By the way Eucharist comes from Greek ευχαριστος (spelling may not be 100% accurate) which means thanksgiving or giving/having thanks. The Eucharist is the act of being thankful to God, or something like that (not a Catholic, but I know Koine to a degree)

Baptizing infants is a Catholic tradition and has no explicit place in the scriptures, but may come from Jesus saying "let the little ones come unto me and do not deny them" it was a big issue of the protestant reformation just so you know. groups like the Anabaptists believed only Adult Baptism was acceptable.

Creeds came from a bunch of Church leaders coming together to make an easy saying which outlines the basics of the faith or of issues that were debated in that day. it comes from a necessity of Christians needing to know what the truth is and what the heresies are. You find one "creed" of sorts in Acts when the leaders of the Church in Jerusalem read a decision about circumcision and faith.

The book of Mormon may have those things yet they miss out on the important things. Did you know the Qu'ran has a Joseph story that is different than the Bible's version? Like oh my gosh, really? Also they have a narrative about Jesus' birth? Like maybe the Qu'ran is the most Biblical. Haha nope. The Book of Mormon denies Jesus being fully God and fully man and being the only salvation through the redemption of His blood which was sacrificed for us on the cross, and He being raised from the dead on the third day and rising up to the Father and given the Name YHWH, also Jesus being our High Priest, King, and Prophet, and the only means of Salvation from our sins and dead works.

Did you know that the Book of Mormon was supposedly in Reformed Egyptian and yet there is no such thing as reformed Egyptian? We would have known if we actually had the copies of the Book of Mormon but they disappeared so I guess we just have to take Joseph Smith's word.

How can the book of Mormon be Biblical if it isn't even Historical. When put to the test of Archeology it fails miserably on all accounts.

 

[Rescued One]

This is what the LDS teach about the Bible:

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

1 Nephi 13: 24-29



LDS Teachings about Baptism for the Dead:

15 And now, my dearly beloved brethren and sisters, let me assure you that these are principles in relation to the dead and the living that cannot be lightly passed over, as pertaining to our salvation. For their asalvation is necessary and essential to our salvation, as Paul says concerning the fathers—that they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made bperfect.
Doctrine and Covenants Section 128


Never has a people had the opportunity to do so much for so many as do the Latter-day Saints. If they fail to fulfill their duty, they do so at the “peril of their own salvation” (Smith, Teachings, p. 193; see also p. 356). The dead cannot receive the ordinances that lead them to salvation unless they are performed by the living, and the living must bind themselves to their ancestral families for their own salvation. Little wonder that the Prophet Joseph Smith expressed such strong feeling for the Lord’s saving plan. All Saints should feel the same urgency.
Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual - Section 128 - Baptism for the Dead

Bible:

(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
2 Corinthians 6:2

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hebrews 9:27

The Bible has no commandment regarding baptism for the dead.

Where in the Bible does it say that the Church has a President and two counselors or that deacons and elders are boys and young men? Where does it say that men and women should wear specific underwear? Where does it say that men should refrain from drinking coffee and tea? Where does it say that we should drink water to remember Christ's blood? Where does it say that non-LDS cannot have the Gift of the Holy Ghost?

 

[Soulgazer]

Where in the the Bible does it teach the "Trinity?"
Where's the word "Rapture?"
Where does it teach the Bible that it is the sole source for doctrine?
Where does it teach "faith alone is enough to be saved?"
Where does it state The Church is just a "Body of Believers" and not one body? Basically explain how Protestantism is biblical?
"The Eucharist?" (for Cathllics?)
Baptizing Infants?
The notion of creeds?


The answer is nowhere!

Only people who cherry-pick lines from the Bible can answer these questions with a "yes" even though it's never REALLY there unless you use a lot of creativity.

So who are REALLY the unbiblical ones here?

...not Mormons...

Baptism for the Dead (in the Bible)
Three Heavens (in the Bible)
Other Sheep/ Stick of Ephraim (people of the Book of Mormon) (in the Bible)
Prophets and Apostles (in the Bible)
Melchizedek Priesthood (in the Bible)

Makes you think, huh?

My branch of Christianity will not accept "Revelation" because we believe Jesus is the paraclete or closing prophet.


So officially, no we would not accept Mormanism EXCEPT for the commandment of the Lord given in Mark 9:38-39. This causes all those who proclaim other would be followers to be false to be false themselves, because they are in violation of a direct commandment.

So what can I say except "Brother". This doesn't mean we would accept Jos. Smith as a prophet though.

 

[Fotis Greece]

Did you know that the Book of Mormon was supposedly in Reformed Egyptian and yet there is no such thing as reformed Egyptian? We would have known if we actually had the copies of the Book of Mormon but they disappeared so I guess we just have to take Joseph Smith's word.

How can the book of Mormon be Biblical if it isn't even Historical. When put to the test of Archeology it fails miserably on all accounts.[/quote]



Actually there are Reformed Egyptian and you can find them in another branch of Christianity called Copts and they are the most historical church in Egypt. Ok i agree that there is no evidence that there was a civilization in the Americas that was decendants of the Israelites.And that's actually the problem.But recent research have sawn that Precolombian Civiliazations in the Americas where split... Every single community had it's different language.So you understand that it's actually very difficult to research about the correctness of the Book Of Mormon.Nevertheless there have been found words in Precolumbian languages that have similarities with Jewish and Egyptian.Anyway we do not have strong proves about the Book of Mormon but... it's fascinating that there are these little similarities.Personaly i base my faith to the Book of Mormon from what it says and the Book of Mormon does not say different things from the Bible. If you read it you' ll see that

 

[x141]

It is the plight of Adam to name eveything he sees according to the measure he deems it, even God.

 

[Rescued One]

Nevertheless there have been found words in Precolumbian languages that have similarities with Jewish and Egyptian.

Es regnet draussen.

A pregnant what???

 

[Fotis Greece]

Es regnet draussen.

A pregnant what???

No... it's not raining outside... at least here in greece... and i didn't say anything about pregnant... probably it's metaphore or something??? XD

 

[Comprehender]

Only people who cherry-pick lines from the Bible can answer these questions with a "yes" even though it's never REALLY there unless you use a lot of creativity.

Yeah, cherry picking like when LDS/Mormon leaders demand 10% of members income (not "increase/interest" as scriptures state) for worthiness and then rob the poor of 1/3 tithes.

LDS leaders want to apply the biblical (OT) law of tithing, but they cherry pick by not not teaching Deut 14:28-29. They've tried to deceive members by leaving Deut 14:28-29 out of "tithing" category in lds bible topical guide/indexes (paper back). The openly tell members that tithing is NOT for charity - & constantly remind members to pay extra for those in need.

LDS leaders cherry pick the law of tithing so they can build Mormon shopping malls and other corporations in the name of Jesus Christ, while neglecting almost 1,000,000,000 men, women & children who suffer starvation and tens of thousands die EVERY DAY from a lack of basic needs.

 

[branchofthevine]

Actually there are Reformed Egyptian and you can find them in another branch of Christianity called Copts and they are the most historical church in Egypt. Ok i agree that there is no evidence that there was a civilization in the Americas that was decendants of the Israelites.And that's actually the problem.But recent research have sawn that Precolombian Civiliazations in the Americas where split... Every single community had it's different language.So you understand that it's actually very difficult to research about the correctness of the Book Of Mormon.Nevertheless there have been found words in Precolumbian languages that have similarities with Jewish and Egyptian.

After looking around the internet at both Mormon sources and non Mormon sources it would be really hard and basically impossible for me to say "yeah Reformed Egyptian sounds legit." It really sounds like the Mormon side is trying to say something exists but they're the only ones who know about it, and their arguments just seem to contradict evidence from people who study languages for a living. I was reading that the only people in North America who accomplished a complete script in North America were the Mayans and the Aztecs neither which look like what this reformed Egyptian is thought to be like. Coptic Egyptian which is used by Coptic Christians in their tradition is modern Egyptian, but if you were talking about some other language then okay.

Also from Wikipedia, so take it for what its worth
"
Archaeological evidence shows that the only people known to have developed written languages in America were the Olmecs and Mayans, whose written languages have no resemblance to Hebrew or Egyptian hieroglyphs. Additionally, professional linguists and Egyptologists do not consider the Anthon Transcript document to contain any legitimate ancient writing. Klaus Baer, Egyptologist at the University of Chicago, called the characters of the transcript nothing but "doodlings".[94]
The Smithsonian Institution has noted, "Reports of findings of ancient Egyptian Hebrew, and other Old World writings in the New World in pre-Columbian contexts have frequently appeared in newspapers, magazines, and sensational books. None of these claims has stood up to examination by reputable scholars. No inscriptions using Old World forms of writing have been shown to have occurred in any part of the Americas before 1492 except for a few Norse rune stones which have been found in Greenland.""

Anyway we do not have strong proves about the Book of Mormon but... it's fascinating that there are these little similarities.Personaly i base my faith to the Book of Mormon from what it says and the Book of Mormon does not say different things from the Bible. If you read it you' ll see that

There are what little similarities? The Qu'ran and the Bible have small similarities and ye the two of them differ on major points that cannot be reconciled. it is either one is right and the other is wrong.

Maybe you should read the Bible. The book of Mormon does not say the same things as the Bible. Look at the letters of Paul, and the other letters in the New Testament, read the Gospel of John. These writing are different than anything else.

How are men saved according to the book of Mormon, from what, by what means, and for what purpose? and why?

 

[AeonJ]

where is the historical records of there being a giant empire in North America being destroyed leaving no evidence and also there being a battle with millions of participants yet no evidence for it.

OP is about the Bible so I'm going to disregard this unless you want to start a new thread about historical evidences.

Also how about Jesus and Satan being brothers? Sure they sound legit. :/

If God created everything (even begat Jesus) then why not? Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus wasn't Lucifer's brother?

First off the word trinity no, that's true, yet the principle is there with God being called Father (Jesus being the first to know God as Father), and there is the Son (Jesus, the Messiah which the Jews were expecting -> read Old Testament to understand), and the Holy Spirit (mentioned in Psalms, and many times in the New Testament, also called other names like the Spirit of Christ etc.)

Like stated before where's the biblical support? None just wild imaginations of people making their "creeds."

Rapture does not occur really in scripture, and the principle is highly debatable. It is not a sure doctrine but follows under a line of interpretation of the "end times" prophecies, so there is no real point in bringing it up.

noted.

The Bible is called the Word of God and in one of the letters of Timothy Paul says that it is profitable for sound Doctrine, so for sound doctrine yeah, and basically all other teaching is based on the Word of God, most of which comes from theology of the Old Testament in which most Christian doctrines are founded.

references please.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast." There you go.

It does not say "faith-alone!" And there are many scriptures that definately state that it is not just by faith. Look at James 2:18, Matthew 7:21.

Read Paul's letters like Ephesians and see how Paul says stuff like "You are all members of one body."

Yet again doesn't say what you think it means. No where does it state that you can be of the body of Christ by just doing your own thing and having a gaggle. I.E. Protestantism

Maybe if you actually researched the Protestant reformation you would understand more of how they wanted to reform the Church of the heresies that crept in. Prove how it isn't Biblical with some intelligent and logical arguments made from research.

Don't just assume statements without researching them because you end up looking like an idiot when someone who knows what they are talking about comes along and proves you wrong. What will happen to your pride then? Won't you just get mad and dig yourself a deeper hole?

I don't seem to be the one believing made up stuff just because it is mainstream.

By the way Eucharist comes from Greek ευχαριστος (spelling may not be 100% accurate) which means thanksgiving or giving/having thanks. The Eucharist is the act of being thankful to God, or something like that (not a Catholic, but I know Koine to a degree)

No where does in the Bible does is state the Eucharist or communion (sacrament) is literally the real body and blood of Christ. I believe that's how Catholics define it.

Baptizing infants is a Catholic tradition and has no explicit place in the scriptures, but may come from Jesus saying "let the little ones come unto me and do not deny them" it was a big issue of the protestant reformation just so you know. groups like the Anabaptists believed only Adult Baptism was acceptable.

Christ doesn't mention Baptism in those passages of scripture with children. In fact he says...

Matthew 19:14 "But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

and...

Matthew 18:3-4 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

Creeds came from a bunch of Church leaders coming together to make an easy saying which outlines the basics of the faith or of issues that were debated in that day. it comes from a necessity of Christians needing to know what the truth is and what the heresies are. You find one "creed" of sorts in Acts when the leaders of the Church in Jerusalem read a decision about circumcision and faith.

Creeds are just a bunch of opinions that aren't real scripture. (i.e. Nicene Creed) And opinions are like noses everyone has one.

The book of Mormon may have those things yet they miss out on the important things. Did you know the Qu'ran has a Joseph story that is different than the Bible's version? Like oh my gosh, really? Also they have a narrative about Jesus' birth? Like maybe the Qu'ran is the most Biblical. Haha nope.

don't care

The Book of Mormon denies Jesus being fully God and fully man and being the only salvation through the redemption of His blood which was sacrificed for us on the cross, and He being raised from the dead on the third day and rising up to the Father and given the Name YHWH, also Jesus being our High Priest, King, and Prophet, and the only means of Salvation from our sins and dead works.

please reference... (to my knowledge it reiterates this not denies it)

Did you know that the Book of Mormon was supposedly in Reformed Egyptian and yet there is no such thing as reformed Egyptian? We would have known if we actually had the copies of the Book of Mormon but they disappeared so I guess we just have to take Joseph Smith's word.

already discussed by others

How can the book of Mormon be Biblical if it isn't even Historical. When put to the test of Archeology it fails miserably on all accounts.

History has nothing to do with Mormonism being biblical or not biblical. This straw-man argument isn't going to fly.

 

[elahmine]

So who are REALLY the unbiblical ones here?

...not Mormons...

Baptism for the Dead (in the Bible)
Three Heavens (in the Bible)
Other Sheep/ Stick of Ephraim (people of the Book of Mormon) (in the Bible)
Prophets and Apostles (in the Bible)
Melchizedek Priesthood (in the Bible)

Makes you think, huh?

1. Not in the OT the NT or the Apocrypha
2.Not in the OT the NT or the Apocrypha
3. Depends on how you are using those verse
4. The Church still believes in these...
5. Depends on how you use those verse.

 

[Rescued One]

If God created everything (even begat Jesus) then why not? Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus wasn't Lucifer's brother?

Jesus created everything; there was never a time that He didn't exist or was not God.

Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus had a brother who was a liar from the beginning?

During his pre-mortal life Jesus Christ rose to the status of Godhood. At that time he was foreordained to be the Savior of this world. Father Abraham was privileged to see in vision the grand council in heaven that was held prior to the peopling of this earth, and he saw, as the Lord showed him, "many of the noble and great ones."
Milton R. Hunter, LDS Conference Report, October 1949, p. 69

If Jesus rose to Godhood in premortality, why wasn't he required to have a temple marriage?

Only through celestial marriage can one find the strait way, the narrow path. Eternal life cannot be had in any other way.
Spencer W. Kimball, Deseret News, Church Section, Nov. 12, 1977

D&C 132:3–6 . “If Ye Abide Not That Covenant, Then Are Ye Damned”
The “new and everlasting covenant” ( D&C 132:4 ) is the covenant of celestial marriage, as President Spencer W. Kimball stated: “Though relatively few people in this world understand it, the new and everlasting covenant is the marriage ordinance in the holy temple by the properly constituted leaders who hold the genuine, authoritative keys. This glorious blessing is available to men and women on this earth.” ( “Temples and Eternal Marriage,” Ensign, Aug. 1974, p. 5 .)

One can sense the importance of accepting the covenant from the number of times the Lord repeats this warning:

“All who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same” ( D&C 132:3 ).

“If ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned” ( v. 4 ).

“No one can reject this covenant and . . . enter into my glory” ( v. 4 ).

“All who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law” ( v. 5 ).

“He that receiveth a fulness [of my glory] must and shall abide the law” ( v. 6 ).
Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual - Section 132 - Marriage: An Eternal Covenant


D&C 132:16 . How Important Is It to Be Married by Proper Authority Now?
Elder James E. Talmage wrote that “in the resurrection there will be no marrying nor giving in marriage; for all questions of marital status must be settled before that time, under the authority of the Holy Priesthood, which holds the power to seal in marriage for both time and eternity” ( Jesus the Christ, p. 548; see also Matthew 22:30 ; Mark 12:25 ).

D&C 132:19–22 . How Does an Individual Obtain a Fulness of God’s Glory?
The revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants include all of the laws necessary for exaltation. If we keep the law revealed in section 132 and all the other laws, such as faith, repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost, we can be exalted.

Celestial marriage is a covenant, a contract between the two marriage partners and the Lord. Covenants have “if-then” clauses: if we keep certain commandments, then the Lord promises us certain blessings. Verses 19–22 form such a clause.

If a couple—
Then they will—

1. Are married in accordance with the Lord’s law
1. “Inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths” ( v. 19 )

2. Are married by one who has the keys of the priesthood
2. “Pass by the angels” to their exaltation ( v. 19 )

3. Have their marriage sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise
3. Be gods for all eternity (see v. 20 )

4. Abide in the covenant
4. Have a “continuation of the lives” ( v. 22 )
Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual - Section 132 - Marriage: An Eternal Covenant

D&C 132:20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end;
therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

LDS teach that perfection comes through obedience. LDS teach that there is no marrying in heaven. If Christ was a God in LDS heaven, how could he marry and thus obey the covenant of celestial marriage prior to becoming a God?

 

[Rescued One]

It does not say "faith-alone!" And there are many scriptures that definately state that it is not just by faith. Look at James 2:18, Matthew 7:21.

We have a thread about this here
http://www.christianforums.com/t7651520/

 

[branchofthevine]

Personaly i base my faith to the Book of Mormon from what it says and the Book of Mormon does not say different things from the Bible. If you read it you' ll see that

if by same thing you mean that The Book of Mormon agrees that Jesus is fully God from all eternity and through Him all things were created, and He is not a created being but is from everlasting and came down begotten as a man (Begotten = reproduced in the same image) from God, was perfect and became perfect through suffering being the captain and example of our Salvation (read Hebrews), teaching and showing the Kingdom of God being handed over by the Jews to the Romans to be scourged and beaten then crucified not for His own sins but for the sins of the entire world, and suffering and dying in our place. Then on the third morning being raised from the dead by the Father and was raised up to heaven 40 days later being now our High Priest and always interceding for the Saints until He returns. He also has given us of His Spirit (Holy Spirit) which remains and fills and dwells in the Christian who has forever an open invitation to the Father's throne. For through the blood of Christ we are washed clean of our sins and made perfect in our Father's eyes and made right with Him and yet still being perfected to be like Him and being molded to be exactly like Jesus, and that anyone adding or subtracting anything from the Good News of grace is no real Good News and is perverting the truth, then sure they say the same things, but I wonder if the Book of Mormon says the same things.

 

[branchofthevine]

If God created everything (even begat Jesus) then why not? Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus wasn't Lucifer's brother?

Jesus Is God. God was never created, He has always existed from everlasting. satan was created as an angel and rebelled against God and was twisted by pride. Prove that satan and Jesus are brothers. That belief is heretical and wrong. Jesus is not satan's brother. satan is an angel, and Jesus God.

​

Like stated before where's the biblical support? None just wild imaginations of people making their "creeds."

Not that you seem to care about scripture nor will you believe even if I show you because you are hard set on things you don't understand. Trinity is a word made up by men to show the relationship between God and Himself. Yet you Mormons don't count Jesus as God, so why care at all?
The Trinity is made up of three person who are all the same God. Not different God but yet the same.
John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works."
Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."
1 Peter 1:1-2 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied."
John 15:26 "“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me."


The Father is in Jesus and Jesus in the Father. The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God the Holy Spirit, and Peter speaks of the Father, the Spirit and the Christ. Also the Holy Spirit is sent from the Father who testifies about Jesus.

references please.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

​

It does not say "faith-alone!" And there are many scriptures that definately state that it is not just by faith. Look at James 2:18, Matthew 7:21.

I applaud you for picking scripture without trying to understand it so you can prove a point in an argument. Good job. Any casual study of the James passage clear shows that James is writing to Christian, not unbelievers, and that He is making the point that faith that doesn't produce works is no real faith. Like a light bulb that doesn't produce light is dead. If you claim your light bulb works but you put it in the socket and it doesn't produce light then obviously you are a liar. Basically James is saying if you are really saved there should be evidence (works) of your Salvation (faith in Christ).

Matthew 7:21 - yes not everyone who says Lord Lord shall be saved. Read the previous verse "Therefore, you will know them by their fruits." Jesus is saying that just because you call yourself a Christian and just because you pretend to be a Christian. If there is no proof in your life that "You do the Father's will" after being saved then you are proven a liar.

Men are saved not by works, nor by the law, but by God's power (His grace) this saving grace comes by Faith in Christ alone. Do you not even know this? Stop using scripture for arguments for the sake of trying to prove a point because that is not going to get you anywhere. If you would read Romans, and Galatians Paul makes it very clear that Salvation only comes through the grace of God through faith in Christ.
Galatians 2:16 "16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." learn this scripture. it isn't an argument because what point do I need to make?
Galatians 2:20-21 "20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”"
This isn't an intellectual understanding but a reality to live in, but I wonder if the Book of Mormon tells you that or not.
Christianity is not primarily doctrine or knowledge or understanding, but living and experience not of a theory or an idea but of a life saved and being transformed to be like Jesus.

​

Yet again doesn't say what you think it means. No where does it state that you can be of the body of Christ by just doing your own thing and having a gaggle. I.E. Protestantism

I'm not trying to give an intellectual point so that it can be debated to see who has the best and most correct understanding of what the Church is. I know what the Church is because I am a part of the Church. I see the Church firsthand in all things. I am trying to get you people to read and understand so that you stop trying to turn everything into a debate over ideas and theories without actually living it.
The word for Church is εκκλεσια which is not an organization or building but the collective of people. These people are the redeemed and saved in Christ being the image of Christ to the world. Jesus said in the Gospel of John "As the Father has sent me, so send I you into the world" (John 20:21). We are to reach out and help the poor and the the broken, and yet ourselves being purified and becoming closer in fellowship with God and with one another. We are to Preach and teach the Good News and defend the truth and serve and love one another with the love of Christ. We are to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit and to live as Children of God seeing past the normal and into the supernatural and living always in God's presence and His reality.

I don't seem to be the one believing made up stuff just because it is mainstream.

Well who is then? Whatever mainstream is, please tell me.

No where does in the Bible does is state the Eucharist or communion (sacrament) is literally the real body and blood of Christ. I believe that's how Catholics define it.

You're right, but I you would know that if you read the Bible, or at least the New Testament. You would also know that Catholic Theology differs on different issues from Protestant or Orthodox Theology. Some of these issues were big causes for the Protestant reformation in Europe. There is a lot of good and correct teaching in Catholicism and at the same time a lot of stuff that makes you wonder where they got it. However, it is the same thing with most Protestant denominations as well and the Orthodox tradition.

Christ doesn't mention Baptism in those passages of scripture with children. In fact he says...

Matthew 19:14 "But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

and...

Matthew 18:3-4 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

yes He does, and I am not defending Infant Baptism but was just wondering where the idea would have come from and I thought well maybe from these verses, but anyways.

Creeds are just a bunch of opinions that aren't real scripture. (i.e. Nicene Creed) And opinions are like noses everyone has one.

Have you read the Nicene Creed? If you haven't here it is
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

note: catholic means universal.


Now tell me. How is this unbiblical? Isn't it reaffirming what the scriptures are saying?

please reference... (to my knowledge it reiterates this not denies it)

Would you believe the covenant and doctriens and the pearls of Great price by any chance? Do all Mormons believe those? See I'm trying to read through them, and well knowing this would really help me in my answer, but I guess if you believe them and see them differently than the book of mormon than that really doesn't help me anyways. I would like to read the material more closely if that is fine with you on this one. Although I am finding it hard to read with the KJV plagiarisms everywhere, but whatever, and I assume you don't believe they are plagiarisms in the first place.


You Mormons seem to hold that Jesus is God, but that Jesus is not the same as the Father. See in the Old Testament the people of Israel knew God as Yahweh, and God was revealing the meaning of His Name through His actions and His dealings with Israel throughout History. Yahweh means "He Is who He is, or He Will Be who He Will Be" because in hebrew it is actually a third person singular verb which can be future or present tense. At the burning Bush God revealed himself as Ehyeh "I Am who I Am, or I Will Be who I Will Be" but for the sake of understanding Moses changed it to third person. The Name of God is the meaning and not the letters. God is known by what He does. Read Exodus 34:6-7 where God tells who God is
'
6 And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, 7 keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”"



God's Name is His Name forever and is a memorial to all Generations, so the meaning of His Name is played out in History and man can come to understand it looking back at what He has done, what He is doing now and what He will do in the future.


Now the Jews were looking forward to the time when the Messiah would come and save the people of Israel and all mankind, though they misunderstood what the Messiah would be like.


Yahweh came down begotten as a human (God reproduced Himself as a human) who we call Jesus. Jesus is Yahweh in flesh. yet Yahweh is still in heaven (well He is everywhere but you know what I'm saying). Yahweh didn't split, but was always like this, and Yahweh comes and fills Jesus with the Spirit of Yahweh (Holy Spirit). There is a point to this. Jesus who is Yahweh begotten as man is Yahweh who Jesus calls Father is Yahweh who is the Spirit which dwells in Jesus. The three are Yahweh, the three are one, and yet the one who is begotten, the indwelling Spirit, and the one called Father are separate. Yahweh is Jesus, Is the Spirit, Is the Father. This is what the book of Mormon and its other books seem to deny. They say okay Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God, but they are not the same God, and one is higher than the other. However, the Bible says otherwise. It says God is love (1 John 4:7). There is no ranks in love. It isn't that the Father is higher than Jesus is higher than the Spirit. No. It works like this: because Yahweh begotten as man loves Yahweh called Father, He (Jesus) submits and humbles Himself before the Father though He is the same and equal of the Father. The Spirit loves the Father and the Son that the Spirit of Yahweh humbles Himself and freely obeys the Father and lives and strengthens the Begotten son. The Father loves the Son to be in intimate communion and fellowship with the Son and loves the Son to send the indwelling Spirit to strengthen the Begotten Son as He is on earth.


You misunderstand Love, and that is the problem and is also why Mormonism and the Church will not be reconciled. The Christian saved by the grace of God is invited to join and participate with the love of God, not that man becomes God but God loves man to bring him into fellowship with Himself joining the love which already exists. That is why

Jesus says "This is eternal life, to know You the One true God and Jesus Christ Whom You've sent" (John 17:3). God loves man to send Himself as one of them (Jesus) to save and bring into fellowship with Him.
I wish you would understand this, but no man can understand this unless they have tasted it. It isn't something your brain can understand but rather something your heart must understand. Mormonism may have a lot of understanding right but it misses the heart of the truth, and this is the big error. You have no understanding in your heart of the truth, only a head knowledge and a seemingly iffy one at that.
To feel and confront your sins, all of them and call on the blood of Christ to be forgiven, cleansed, and saved, and brought into union with Christ. That is no theory but an experience open to every human.

 

[Rescued One]

Jesus Is God. God was never created, He has always existed from everlasting. Yet you Mormons don't count Jesus as God, so why care at all?
The Trinity is made up of three person who are all the same God. Not different God but yet the same.

As an ex-Mormon, I'd like to explain a few things about Mormonism.

In 1844, Smith taught:

"[T]he soul—the mind of man—the immortal spirit. Where did it come from? All learned men and doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning; but it is not so: the very idea lessens man in my estimation.... We say that God himself is a self-existent being.... Man does exist upon the same principles.... [The Bible] does not say in the Hebrew that God created the spirit of man. It says 'God made man out of the earth and put into him Adam's spirit, and so became a living body.' The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself.... Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it had a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had not beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven."[7]
Excerpt from King Follett Discourse
Pre-existence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Also see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 352-353)

Elohim(the Father) and Christ and Satan have always existed, the Father first gave them Spirit bodies, then the worthy spirits receive physical bodies on earth. Satan was denied a physical body.

Each member of the Godhead fulfills particular functions in relation to each of the others and to mankind. God the Father presides over the Godhead. He is the Father of all human spirits and of the physical body of Jesus Christ. The human body was formed in his image.

Jesus Christ, the Firstborn son of God the Father in the spirit and the Only Begotten son in the flesh, is the creative agent of the Godhead and the redeeming mediator between the Father and mankind. By him God created all things, and through him God revealed the laws of salvation. In him shall all be made alive, and through his Atonement all mankind may be reconciled with the Father.

The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit who bears witness to truth. The Father and the Holy Ghost bear witness of the Son, and the Son and the Holy Ghost bear witness of the Father (3 Ne. 11:32; cf. John 8:18). Through the Holy Ghost, revelations of the Father and of the Son are given.
Godhead - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism


107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.
THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 88

"In this way both the Father and the Son, as also all exalted beings, are now or in due course will become Gods of Gods. (Teachings pp. 342-376)"
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 322-323

"Mortal persons who overcome all things and gain an ultimate exaltation will live eternally in the family unit and have spirit children, thus becoming Eternal Fathers and Mothers."
Mormon Doctrine, p.517

Mormons are removing McConkie's quotes from their lesson manuals; nevertheless, McConkie frequently quoted Joseph Smith and other LDS prophets. Teachings, for instance, refers to The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

When it comes to worship, LDS frequently say that they worship the Father and the Son.

Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:29
And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/25.29?lang=eng

Doctrine and Covenants 20:29
And we know that all men must repent and believe on the name of Jesus Christ, and worship the Father in his name, and endure in faith on his name to the end, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.
http://lds.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/.../scriptures/dc-testament/dc/20.29?lang=eng#28

I hope you find those quotes helpful.

 

[Rescued One]

Basically explain how Protestantism is biblical?

The answer is nowhere!

Being Protestant means that you have faith in Christ but you don't accept everything that the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox churches teach. Latter-day Saints don't accept all Catholic and Eastern Orthodox teachings either.

Protestantism is one of the major groupings within Christianity, and has been defined as "any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth," and more broadly, to mean Christianity outside "of a Catholic or Eastern church",[1] It is a movement that began in Germany in the early 16th century as a reaction against medieval Roman Catholic doctrines and practices, especially in regards to salvation, justification, and ecclesiology. The doctrines of the various Protestant denominations vary, but most include justification by grace through faith alone, known as Sola Gratia and Sola Fide respectively, the priesthood of all believers, and the Bible as the supreme authority in matters of faith and morals, known as Sola Scriptura, which is Latin for "by scripture alone".

Protestantism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rescued One]

Personaly i base my faith to the Book of Mormon from what it says and the Book of Mormon does not say different things from the Bible. If you read it you' ll see that

Bible:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

That was written long before Joseph Smith was born!


Book of Mormon:
See post #3 of this thread.

 

[Rescued One]

No... it's not raining outside... at least here in greece... and i didn't say anything about pregnant... probably it's metaphore or something??? XD

I was just showing that languages have words that sound like different things to foreign ears but may not be related at all.

Regnet means raining, and pregnant means with child.

British-Israelism jumps to conclusions about words, too.