Are Mormon's Christian?

[MarsHill]

If you do not want to do your own homework, then please do not maintain that posting a link satisfies my request. Plus, if you want to understand LDS doctrine, it would be best if you actually would read the Book of Mormon and may be refer to the LDS site. [/color]

Does a person need to believe in Zeus in order to be an expert or knowledgeable in Greek mythology? When discussing a subject, isn’t best to be knowledgeable about it?

Let me re-phrase the question as I have already done for someone else. Why would someone claiming to be an atheist care to defend a religion that holds to the belief that there are many gods? If I do not believe in God and the atheist view is that there absolutely is no God (forms of Agnosticism would differ a bit) then why would I want to defend something that claims there is any type of god much less multiple gods. If I have asserted that one God does not exist then obviously multiple gods do not exist either.
It would be the same as an atheist defending Judaism, Islam or Christianity. Sorry if I posed the question wrong in the first place.

 

[peepnklown]

70% of the people on this site best stop posting then!

I find it odd when people pull out statistics out of the air. I understand reposting can be tedious, so do what I do; I type repeatable stuff in WORD and save it for future use. It’s not about doing things the hard way, it’s about integrity.

There's been two as far as I could see.

My point still stands, 2 do not speak for the majority about their view about CARM. I have seen one of the Mormons posting reject the data CARM has stated.

Most Christians just don't like Mormons and their theology, so they find ways to exclude them.

Exactly! The same thing happens when you mention that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

Why would someone claiming to be an atheist care to defend a religion that holds to the belief that there are many gods?

If you are going to dodge discussing the topics because I am an atheist then please stop talking to me, I do not wish to discuss anything with a person who uses this dishonest tactic. I have an interest in information, it would be the same if you would assert that Santa Claus was female, and I refuted you. I do not need to believe in Santa to discuss it.

 

[jlujan69]

The first four posts here show just how little non-Christians actually know even about the fundamentals of Christianity. The fact is if it doesn't quack like a duck, look like a duck, smell like a duck, or lay eggs with little ducks in it, it just ain't a duck!!

 

[Eldy]

In the end will heaven be populated with an entire group of forgiven sinners that are still running from God? There will have to be some force involved in order to make heaven a peaceful place if this happens. Does that sound like heaven to you? Will God allow this in heaven?

I don't believe that there will be a single person in heaven who does not want to be there and does not want to be cleansed. It may take many ages to produce this in some people but God is pretty amazing and will be there long enough to take care of it. I like CaDan's take. I just am not going to worry about it. I know all will be okay because God IS love, not a petty love that lashes out and burns people forever reveling in their screams and torment but love that never quits. That leaves the 99 to seek the 1 and then puts him on His shoulder and brings Him home.

 

[urnotme]

I find it odd when people pull out statistics out of the air. I understand reposting can be tedious, so do what I do; I type repeatable stuff in WORD and save it for future use. It’s not about doing things the hard way, it’s about integrity. [/color]

My point still stands, 2 do not speak for the majority about their view about CARM. I have seen one of the Mormons posting reject the data CARM has stated.

Exactly! The same thing happens when you mention that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

If you are going to dodge discussing the topics because I am an atheist then please stop talking to me, I do not wish to discuss anything with a person who uses this dishonest tactic. I have an interest in information, it would be the same if you would assert that Santa Claus was female, and I refuted you. I do not need to believe in Santa to discuss it.

aah The bearde lady.He was just asking a question, I was curious as to why an atheist would defend a religion too.

 

[Eldy]

You cannot say, "This is what I hear in `all` of the evangelical churches" unless you have visited "every" evangelical church in existence.

Okay, in ALL the Ev churches I have visited.

Didn't Jesus teach that there would be those who go to hell for ever and ever?

No, He did not. That was the translators for the KJV that taught that. Eternal seperation is not in the Bible. It is literally translated as ages, or eons, not eternal.

 

[Eldy]

Worrying about it then may place you where you do not desire to be. Why worry about it when it is too late?

If there ends up being no universal salvation and no second chances then you have lost everything my friend.

Spending eternity wishing for another chance is not something I would choose.

By the way--- your signature should read "No peace without the Prince of Peace."

That just seems like such a cheap and worthless "grace."

If you don't get it right (though not one part of the Body of Believers can figure out which "right" is right) then you are going to burn.

Sorry but God is so much bigger and amazing then that. This merely seems like a temper tantruming child who did not get his way so he burns his toys. My God is not a monster.

God condemned the actions of the pagans who made their children "pass through the fire" which meant they were sacrificing their babies in the flames. So then He turns around and does it too? Not only that but His would be so much more attrocious as at least those babies got to die. Not those in the flames of hell. They get to burn forever. Nah, that is not love, it is hate. God is not hate.

 

[MarsHill]

I don't believe that there will be a single person in heaven who does not want to be there and does not want to be cleansed. It may take many ages to produce this in some people but God is pretty amazing and will be there long enough to take care of it. I like CaDan's take. I just am not going to worry about it. I know all will be okay because God IS love, not a petty love that lashes out and burns people forever reveling in their screams and torment but love that never quits. That leaves the 99 to seek the 1 and then puts him on His shoulder and brings Him home.

If I were a shepherd I would be able to leave the 99 and go look for that one as long as the one I am looking for is still alive. If it dies or is devoured then I can no longer bring it back into the fold. If I do find the one and it is dead am I able to restore it for future grazing (without cloning being used)?

 

[MarsHill]

That just seems like such a cheap and worthless "grace."

If you don't get it right (though not one part of the Body of Believers can figure out which "right" is right) then you are going to burn.

Sorry but God is so much bigger and amazing then that. This merely seems like a temper tantruming child who did not get his way so he burns his toys. My God is not a monster.

God condemned the actions of the pagans who made their children "pass through the fire" which meant they were sacrificing their babies in the flames. So then He turns around and does it too? Not only that but His would be so much more attrocious as at least those babies got to die. Not those in the flames of hell. They get to burn forever. Nah, that is not love, it is hate. God is not hate.

Your attributing a person's choice via free will to God. If God gave them a million chances while on earth and they resisted then will they say to God, "You should have given me a million and one!"

This theology I'm hearing all about "God is love" and "He would never do that to me" seems like an easy way to get away with any and everything you want without consequence. Ask our attorney out here. Do we not live in a society where no one wants to be responsible for their own decisions?

It's not about God not getting His way it's about Him letting you have your way.

 

[MarsHill]

Okay, in ALL the Ev churches I have visited.

No, He did not. That was the translators for the KJV that taught that. Eternal seperation is not in the Bible. It is literally translated as ages, or eons, not eternal.

Do all Christians have "eternal" life or is it only for a specified period of time, age, or eon?

 

[MarsHill]

I find it odd when people pull out statistics out of the air. I understand reposting can be tedious, so do what I do; I type repeatable stuff in WORD and save it for future use. It’s not about doing things the hard way, it’s about integrity. [/color]

My point still stands, 2 do not speak for the majority about their view about CARM. I have seen one of the Mormons posting reject the data CARM has stated.

Exactly! The same thing happens when you mention that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

If you are going to dodge discussing the topics because I am an atheist then please stop talking to me, I do not wish to discuss anything with a person who uses this dishonest tactic. I have an interest in information, it would be the same if you would assert that Santa Claus was female, and I refuted you. I do not need to believe in Santa to discuss it.

I have yet to dodge the discussion. Would you rather I post the question as a completely new topic on another board? Having an interest in information is noble. Defending a religion that you claim to absolutely not believe in is difficult for me to understand. It would be like me saying, "Man, I do not believe in anything those Muslims say." Then I turn around and defend the Islam position about God on another forum.
It seemed contradictory to me. I do not question your desire to seek knowledge in any area that you see fit.

Discussing the gender of Santa Claus is a non-issue. Merely discussing a topic about something you do not believe in is much different than actually defending a topic that you do not believe in.

 

[Eldy]

If I were a shepherd I would be able to leave the 99 and go look for that one as long as the one I am looking for is still alive. If it dies or is devoured then I can no longer bring it back into the fold. If I do find the one and it is dead am I able to restore it for future grazing (without cloning being used)?

Oh, was that the message of that parable? Gee, I must have missed that. For some silly reason I thought it was clear that Jesus set out to find and since He is sovereign, He does not fail. Silly me.

 

[Eldy]

Your attributing a person's choice via free will to God. If God gave them a million chances while on earth and they resisted then will they say to God, "You should have given me a million and one!"

This theology I'm hearing all about "God is love" and "He would never do that to me" seems like an easy way to get away with any and everything you want without consequence. Ask our attorney out here. Do we not live in a society where no one wants to be responsible for their own decisions?

It's not about God not getting His way it's about Him letting you have your way.

Ah, but when you actually realize how wonderful God truly is, you serve because of love, not fear of His burning you forever.

Sorry but the goal of Christ coming was to be the "savior of the world" and if He fails then is He truly God???

 

[MarsHill]

Okay, in ALL the Ev churches I have visited.

No, He did not. That was the translators for the KJV that taught that. Eternal seperation is not in the Bible. It is literally translated as ages, or eons, not eternal.

Which revisionist "Greek" scholar published that information? If Jesus taught it then it came approx. 1,578 years before KJV in 1611.
I posed the question, "Do Christians have "eternal" life or do they just have it for an age, eon, or specified period of time?

John 3:15 & 16 "....whoever believes in Him may have `eternal` life."
"....should not perish but have `eternal` life."

Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into `eternal` punishment, but the righteous into `eternal` life."

Hebrews 6:2 "....and `eternal` judgment."

There are many, many more examples of "eternal life" and "eternal punishment" in the N.T.

The greek word for "eternal" in all of these cases is "aionios".

If our life is to be "eternal" then it also appears that our punishment will be "eternal" as well. You can't change definitions of the same Greek word. Well, I guess you can because I see these so-called scholars do it all of the time to suit their agenda. Technically you can't do it. It's interesting that when revisionists critique Jesus or the New Testament they use a different set of standards that they would not use on any other historical figure or historical document. It makes me wonder why they are not consistent.

 

[MarsHill]

Oh, was that the message of that parable? Gee, I must have missed that. For some silly reason I thought it was clear that Jesus set out to find and since He is sovereign, He does not fail. Silly me.

As the Good Shepherd He already owns the sheep. "I know My sheep and I am known by My own." If He knows His own 100 sheep then those sheep are already eternally saved.

What about the sheep that are not part of His flock?

 

[MarsHill]

Ah, but when you actually realize how wonderful God truly is, you serve because of love, not fear of His burning you forever.

Sorry but the goal of Christ coming was to be the "savior of the world" and if He fails then is He truly God???

I serve God because of His love for me.

Should we dare say that God failed back in the Garden of Eden. It might appear that way to many. We have to know the overall plan of the Planner in order to call anything that happens "failure". Without knowing the overall plan we cannot judge whether it failed or was a success. What some may call failure may actually be victory in the overall plan of eternity. We are judging from our temporal state. In eternity our perspective may be entirely different.

 

[peepnklown]

The first four posts here show just how little non-Christians actually know even about the fundamentals of Christianity. The fact is if it doesn't quack like a duck, look like a duck, smell like a duck, or lay eggs with little ducks in it, it just ain't a duck!!

But, you will not quote the post you find incorrect and correct them, I call shenanigans! If you are going to assert something, please provide the evidence.

I was curious as to why an atheist would defend a religion too.

Defending a religion that you claim to absolutely not believe in is difficult for me to understand.

Oddly, this “defending” statement has only been brought up by people of religion. I find that odd, because it’s not about defending Mormonism. I will try to make this clear once more:

Discussing the gender of Santa Claus is a non-issue.

This is an example; we are not going to discuss Santa. If you made a claim that Santa was a female, and I refuted with my information, it doesn’t mean I am defending Santa, a myth I don’t believe in, I am correcting you. Do you understand?

Now, I might not believe in Islam, but if you posted incorrect information and I provide correct information, it doesn’t mean I support Islam now. It means that I provided the correct information.

 

[CaDan]

Probably because a charge of "defending" Mormonism is the worst thing some folks can think of, sadly.

 

[peepnklown]

Probably because a charge of "defending" Mormonism is the worst thing some folks can think of, sadly.

Classic

 

[Cassiopeia]

Probably because a charge of "defending" Mormonism is the worst thing some folks can think of, sadly.

Indeed the brandishing of this supposed insult is suppose to frighten us into submissive silence. I have had people actually challenge me on my christianity for defending pagans and wiccans before. I get slandered for coming to the aid of Muslim. Perhaps I will find myself in good company in the end, as I didn't read where Jesus only hung out with the "righteous", he went to those who were good and sincere of heart no matter their religions orientation.