Are Mormons and JWs Christians?

[BigDaddy4]

Go back to Judaism and abandon Christianity.

IOW, deny Christ as Savior and all the NT books? Is that what you mean by "abandon Christianity"?

 

[LoAmmi]

IOW, deny Christ as Savior and all the NT books? Is that what you mean by "abandon Christianity"?

Yes. Those things are not compatible with Judaism. If one wanted to get right according to Judaism, that is what they would have to do.

 

[Celticflower]

Back to the topic at hand - I think that Mormon's and JW's can be Christian, just like I think many who claim to be Christian aren't. But what I think doesn't matter much. God is in charge of everyone's future, whether they believe it or not.

 

[TheBarrd]

Yes. Those things are not compatible with Judaism. If one wanted to get right according to Judaism, that is what they would have to do.

So, Jews do not consider Messianic Jews to be Jews, even though they consider themselves to be Jewish?

 

[LoAmmi]

So, Jews do not consider Messianic Jews to be Jews, even though they consider themselves to be Jewish?

If the person is the child of a Jewish mother, they are a Jew. That cannot be taken away. But by converting to another faith, they have cut themselves off from the community in such a way that they are not viewed as being part of it. Messianic Judaism, however, is not Judaism no matter how loudly they claim it is.

 

[TheBarrd]

If the person is the child of a Jewish mother, they are a Jew. That cannot be taken away. But by converting to another faith, they have cut themselves off from the community in such a way that they are not viewed as being part of it. Messianic Judaism, however, is not Judaism no matter how loudly they claim it is.

Okay, I can accept that. Whether I agree with you or not, I understand why you feel as you do.
However, I have to wonder...why do you feel your own faith has the right to say that these people who claim to be a part of Judaism are not, based on their acceptance of Jesus as their Messiah...
But you deny the right to Christians to say that Mormons or JWs are not a part of Christianity based on their beliefs that do not fit into Christianity?

 

[LoAmmi]

Okay, I can accept that. Whether I agree with you or not, I understand why you feel as you do.
However, I have to wonder...why do you feel your own faith has the right to say that these people who claim to be a part of Judaism are not, based on their acceptance of Jesus as their Messiah...
But you deny the right to Christians to say that Mormons or JWs are not a part of Christianity based on their beliefs that do not fit into Christianity?

I didn't deny that. I said that I wouldn't take it away from anybody knowing the situation we have with Messianics. Perhaps you misread my comments?

 

[Red Fox]

Never mind...

 

[TheBarrd]

I didn't deny that. I said that I wouldn't take it away from anybody knowing the situation we have with Messianics. Perhaps you misread my comments?

If I misunderstood you, I most humbly apologize, and crave your forgiveness.

 

[smaneck]

Having to deal with Messianic Judaism claiming to be Judaism, I think I do actually understand why Christians want to be able to define their religion and state who is not part of it. Most who practice Judaism object loudly to the idea that Messianic Judaism is in any way Judaism. I don't think I would take the ability to define the beliefs that make a person part of your faith away from people.

I think that is a bit of a different issue because in this case one is attempting to claim two religious identities at once.

 

[TheBarrd]

I think that is a bit of a different issue because in this case one is attempting to claim two religious identities at once.

oops...

 

[TheBarrd]

I think that is a bit of a different issue because in this case one is attempting to claim two religious identities at once.

Not really. To a Messianic Jew, Jesus is the promised Messiah that the rest of Judaism is still waiting for.
Jesus Himself was born of a Jewish mother, making Him a Jew, and His original disciples were mostly Jewish.
The first Christians were Jewish...you might say that they were Messianic Jews.

However, LoAmmi wishes to keep her Jewish faith pure, which I understand.

 

[TheBarrd]

I think that participation in the resurrection of anyone other than myself is dependent on God, and he hasn't shared that knowledge with me.

Otoh, if the question is whether Mormon or Watchtower teachings are Christian then I can answer "no" with confidence. And afaik that is why those teachings are limited to this forum. But as for individuals, I'm comfortable following Paul's advice: "What business have I judging outsiders? God judges those outside.".

I wish I could give you a prize for the best answer...
Thank you for this.

 

[smaneck]

If the person is the child of a Jewish mother, they are a Jew. That cannot be taken away. But by converting to another faith, they have cut themselves off from the community in such a way that they are not viewed as being part of it. Messianic Judaism, however, is not Judaism no matter how loudly they claim it is.

In Iran if a Jew became a Christian or a Muslim they would be totally cut off from their family. Interestingly enough this did not usually happen with Baha'is. Jewish Baha'is were generally (though not always) able to maintain good relationships with their Jewish family and for awhile they were still intermarrying with the Jewish community.

 

[Niblo]

.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Not really. To a Messianic Jew, Jesus is the promised Messiah that the rest of Judaism is still waiting for.
Jesus Himself was born of a Jewish mother, making Him a Jew, and His original disciples were mostly Jewish.
The first Christians were Jewish...you might say that they were Messianic Jews.

However, LoAmmi wishes to keep her Jewish faith pure, which I understand.

Well, LoAmmi and twelve million other Jews…

 

[Zoness]

I'm sort of where awitch is; if they want to consider themselves Christian I guess nobody can stop that though I recognize that Christianity generally has agreed upon tenets.

That said, I'm guessing that moving JWs and Mormons to "non-Christian" status was just a simple way to isolate a potential threat group, as to not taint the mainstream theology presented on the forum. They've been relegated to the oh-so-evil "other" category like the rest of us and I welcome them to our little circle.

Re: Messianic Judaism ... I just always thought those were Pentecostal people thinking they were Jewish? My Jewish friends always register discomfort with them.

 

[ChetSinger]

...That said, I'm guessing that moving JWs and Mormons to "non-Christian" status was just a simple way to isolate a potential threat group, as to not taint the mainstream theology presented on the forum. They've been relegated to the oh-so-evil "other" category like the rest of us and I welcome them to our little circle.

Well, discussions of Mormon and Watchtower theologies were already restricted to the Unorthodox Discussion forum. They already weren't permitted in the regular Theology forums.

I'm content to take the admin's explanation for this move: they were being questioned why such teachings were allowed in a Christian-identified area when they aren't accepted as Christian by any major denomination. So, those teachings were moved out of the Christian area.

This affects teachings, not people. Nothing stops a Mormon or JW from adopting a Christian moniker and posting in those forums. But if they begin promoting those teachings those posts will likely get reported and deleted.

 

[TheBarrd]

Hi.

A wee clarification: LoAmmi is a geezer

Have a great day.

OOPS....
Thanks!

 

[TheBarrd]

Well, LoAmmi and twelve million other Jews…

I'm just one little old Christian lady...who am I to argue with twelve million Jews?