None of those phrases apply to the Jesuits. Please take off your tin foil hat and read normal websites.
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Are Jesuits Fundamentalists?
- Thread starter BobRyan
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None of those phrases apply to the Jesuits. Please take off your tin foil hat and read normal websites.
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BobRyan said: ↑
Jesuits had the unnusual dispensation of being allowed to read the "forbidden books" -- he Index Librorum Prohibitorum,
In the Holy Roman Empire book censorship, which preceded publication of the Index, came under control of the Jesuits at the end of the 16th century,
And they were supposed to blend into their environment to influence non-Catholic entities in favor of the Papacy. That might have produced some liberals.
Among the books prohibited was the Bible written in a language that the people could understand who were not scholars.
In any case Pope Clement XIV revoked that special dispensation from the Jesuits. He would no longer allow them to read those books.
Jesuits had the unnusual dispensation of being allowed to read the "forbidden books" -- he Index Librorum Prohibitorum,
In the Holy Roman Empire book censorship, which preceded publication of the Index, came under control of the Jesuits at the end of the 16th century,
And they were supposed to blend into their environment to influence non-Catholic entities in favor of the Papacy. That might have produced some liberals.
Among the books prohibited was the Bible written in a language that the people could understand who were not scholars.
In any case Pope Clement XIV revoked that special dispensation from the Jesuits. He would no longer allow them to read those books.
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I am late to this discussion but I would like to render my personal opinion.
Any individual or group that holds any religious beliefs at all invariably gets labelled as being fundamentalist by their opponents. The definition of the word has become so obscured by the vitriole attached to it that it no longer really matters.
Any individual or group that holds any religious beliefs at all invariably gets labelled as being fundamentalist by their opponents. The definition of the word has become so obscured by the vitriole attached to it that it no longer really matters.
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Meowzltov
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It depends what era. Today of course we have English translations. But back when Clement XIV was Pope in the early 1700s, it was not allowed. The laity depended upon the parish priest to tell them what was in the readings during the homily. What most protestants don't realize is that even after they had their own English Bibles, the vast majority of the population was ILLITERATE.
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==============================================
The purpose of the version, both the text and notes, was to uphold Catholic tradition in the face of the Protestant Reformation which up till then had overwhelmingly dominated Elizabethan religion and academic debate. As such it was an impressive effort by English Catholics to support the Counter-Reformation. The New Testament was reprinted in 1600, 1621 and 1633. The Old Testament volumes were reprinted in 1635 but neither thereafter for another hundred years. In 1589, William Fulke collated the complete Rheims text and notes in parallel columns with those of the Bishops' Bible. This work sold widely in England, being re-issued in three further editions to 1633. It was predominantly through Fulke's editions that the Rheims New Testament came to exercise a significant influence on the development of 17th century English.[3]
Much of the text of the 1582/1610 bible employed a densely latinate vocabulary, to the extent of being in places unreadable. Consequently, this translation was replaced by a revision undertaken by bishop Richard Challoner; the New Testament in three editions 1749, 1750, and 1752; the Old Testament (minus the Vulgate apocrypha), in 1750.
=======================================
Bible on the forbidden list in the same century as Lateran IV - calls to exterminate heretics and also the inquisition.
===================================================
from: http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/banned.htm
ITEM #1 POPE INNOCENT III
Pope Innocent III stated in 1199:
... to be reproved are those who translate into French the Gospels, the letters of Paul, the psalter, etc. They are moved by a certain love of Scripture in order to explain them clandestinely and to preach them to one another. The mysteries of the faith are not to explained rashly to anyone. Usually in fact, they cannot be understood by everyone but only by those who are qualified to understand them with informed intelligence. The depth of the divine Scriptures is such that not only the illiterate and uninitiated have difficulty understanding them, but also the educated and the gifted (Denzinger-Schönmetzer, Enchiridion Symbolorum 770-771)
Source: Bridging the Gap - Lectio Divina, Religious Education, and the Have-not's by Father John Belmonte, S.J.
ITEM #2 COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D.
The Council of Toulouse, which met in November of 1229, about the time of the crusade against the Albigensians, set up a special ecclesiastical tribunal, or court, known as the Inquisition (Lat. inquisitio, an inquiry), to search out and try heretics. Twenty of the forty-five articles decreed by the Council dealt with heretics and heresy. It ruled in part:
Canon 1. We appoint, therefore, that the archbishops and bishops shall swear in one priest, and two or three laymen of good report, or more if they think fit, in every parish, both in and out of cities, who shall diligently, faithfully, and frequently seek out the heretics in those parishes, by searching all houses and subterranean chambers which lie under suspicion. And looking out for appendages or outbuildings, in the roofs themselves, or any other kind of hiding places, all which we direct to be destroyed.
Canon 6. Directs that the house in which any heretic shall be found shall be destroyed.
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194.
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more from that same site -
===============================================
ITEM #3 THE COUNCIL OF TARRAGONA - 1234 A.D.
The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon, ruled that:
"No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion."
-D. Lortsch, Historie de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.
See also: The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia article on the
Scripture.
ITEM #4 JOHN WYCLIFFE - MORNING STAR OF THE REFORMATION
John Wycliffe was the very first to translate the entire Bible into English, which he completed in 1382. Wycliffe translated from the Latin Vulgate. One copy of an original manuscript is in the Bodlein Library in Oxford, England. Wycliffe's Bibles were painstakingly reproduced by hand by copyists.
In 1408 the third synod of Oxford, England, banned unauthorized English translations of the Bible and decreed that possession of English translation's had to be approved by diocesan authorities. The Oxford council declared:
"It is dangerous, as St. Jerome declares, to translate the text of Holy Scriptures out of one idiom into another, since it is not easy in translations to preserve exactly the same meaning in all things. We therefore command and ordain that henceforth no one translate the text of Holy Scripture into English or any other language as a book, booklet, or tract, of this kind lately made in the time of the said John Wyclif or since, or that hereafter may be made, either in part or wholly, either publicly or privately, under pain of excommunication, until such translation shall have been approved and allowed by the Provincial Council. He who shall act otherwise let him be punished as an abettor of heresy and error."
Source: The Western Watchman, a Catholic newspaper published in St. Louis, August 9, 1894, "The Word of God", The English Bible Before the Reformation, page 7.
At the ecumenical Council of Constance, in 1415, Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury, as "that pestilent wretch of damnable heresy who invented a new translation of the scriptures in his mother tongue." By the decree of the Council, more that 40 years after his death, Wycliffe's bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift river.
Around 1454 Gutenberg printed an edition of the Latin Vulgate Bible on the first moveable-type printing press. With this new printing technology books could now be printed faster and cheaper than ever before, a fact that Protestants soon took advantage of. Within a hundred years there was a virtual explosion of Protestant Bibles coming off the new presses.
ITEM #5 THE BIBLE IN ENGLISH IS PRINTED
William Tyndale completed a translation of the New Testament from the Greek in 1525, which church authorities in England tried their best to confiscate and burn. After issuing a revised edition in 1535, he was arrested, spent over a year in jail, and was then strangled and burned at the stake near Brussels in October 6th, 1536. It is estimated today that some 90 percent of the New Testament in the 1611 King James Bible is the work of Tyndale. Tyndale was unable to complete his translation of the Old Testament before his death.
Miles Coverdale, an assistant to Tyndale, completed Tyndale's translation of the Old Testament using Martin Luther's German text and Latin as sources, and in Germany he printed the first complete Bible in English on October 4, 1535.
Matthew's Bible, a composite of the work of Tyndale and Coverdale, probably edited by John Rogers, was published in 1537 under the pseudonym "Thomas Matthew", and was the second complete edition of the Bible printed in English.
Coverdale's "Great Bible", called that because of its size, was published in 1539 and had over 21,000 copies printed in seven editions in only a single year. Working under the patronage of Thomas Cromwell, Coverdale had submitted his Bible via the Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer, and it was published with the authorization of King Henry VIII, whose likely motivation was the realization that the Bible was an effective means of combating papists. Amazingly, at the end of the book of Malachi were the initials W.T., covering half a page, standing for William Tyndale! Beginning with the second edition, the Great Bible included a preface by Thomas Cranmer, and so it is also called Cranmer's Bible.
The English parliament in 1543 passed a law forbidding the use of any English translations other than the "Great Bible". Tyndale's New Testament was specifically prohibited, and later Wycliffe's and Coverdale's Bibles were also banned. It was decreed a crime for any unlicensed person to read or explain the Scriptures in public. Many copies of Tyndale's New Testament and Coverdale's Bible were burned in London, though ironically, the authorized "Great Bible" contained the work of both men!
In 1557 the Geneva Bible was first published, which continued to be popular even years after the King James was available. The Geneva Bible was the version in use during Shakespeare's time, and was often quoted by him in his plays.
In 1559 Queen Elizabeth, a Protestant, decreed that a copy of the Bishop's Bible be placed in every parish church. The Bishop's Bible was printed in 20 editions over 42 years and was the basis for the King James Bible.
Responding to the increasing flood of Protestant Bibles in English, the very first complete Bible in English to be produced by the Catholic Church was the Douay Rheims, a translation from the Latin Vulgate, which was finally completed in the early 17th century. The New Testament was begun in 1578 and finished in Rheims France in 1582, and the Old Testament was finished in 1609-10 in Douay. Note that it had been over two centuries since Wycliffe had completed his English Bible!
In an attempt to combat the swiftly rising tide of Protestantism, the Catholic Church began maintaining lists of the prohibited books which were to be confiscated. Here is an example from England:
Memorandum of a proclamation made at Paul's Cross on the first Sunday in Advent, 1531, against the buying, selling or reading of the following books:
The disputation between father and the son.
The supplication of beggars.
The revelation of AntiChrist.
Liber qui de veteri et novicio Deo inscribitur.
Precaciones.
Economica christiana.
The burying of the mass, in English rhyme.
An exposition into the VII chapter of the Corinthians.
The matrimony of Tyndal.
A B C against the clergy.
Ortulus animae, in English.
A book against Saint Thomas of Canterbury.
A book made by Friar Reye against the seven sacraments.
An answer of Tyndal to Sir Thomas More's dialogue, in English.
A disputation of purgatory, made by John Frythe.
The first book of Moses, called Genesis.
A prologue in the second book of Moses, called Exodus.
A prologue in the third book of Moses, called Leviticus.
A prologue in the fourth book of Moses, called Numeri.
A prologue in the fifth book of Moses, called Deuteronomy.
The practice of prelates.
The New Testament in English, with an introduction to the epistle to the Romans.
The parable of the wicked Mammon.
The obedience of a Christian man.
The book of Thorpe or of John Oldecastell.
The sum of scripture.
The primer in English.
The psalter in English.
A dialogue between the gentlemen and the plowman.
Jonas in English.
===============================================
ITEM #3 THE COUNCIL OF TARRAGONA - 1234 A.D.
The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon, ruled that:
"No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion."
-D. Lortsch, Historie de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.
See also: The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia article on the
ITEM #4 JOHN WYCLIFFE - MORNING STAR OF THE REFORMATION
John Wycliffe was the very first to translate the entire Bible into English, which he completed in 1382. Wycliffe translated from the Latin Vulgate. One copy of an original manuscript is in the Bodlein Library in Oxford, England. Wycliffe's Bibles were painstakingly reproduced by hand by copyists.
In 1408 the third synod of Oxford, England, banned unauthorized English translations of the Bible and decreed that possession of English translation's had to be approved by diocesan authorities. The Oxford council declared:
"It is dangerous, as St. Jerome declares, to translate the text of Holy Scriptures out of one idiom into another, since it is not easy in translations to preserve exactly the same meaning in all things. We therefore command and ordain that henceforth no one translate the text of Holy Scripture into English or any other language as a book, booklet, or tract, of this kind lately made in the time of the said John Wyclif or since, or that hereafter may be made, either in part or wholly, either publicly or privately, under pain of excommunication, until such translation shall have been approved and allowed by the Provincial Council. He who shall act otherwise let him be punished as an abettor of heresy and error."
Source: The Western Watchman, a Catholic newspaper published in St. Louis, August 9, 1894, "The Word of God", The English Bible Before the Reformation, page 7.
At the ecumenical Council of Constance, in 1415, Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury, as "that pestilent wretch of damnable heresy who invented a new translation of the scriptures in his mother tongue." By the decree of the Council, more that 40 years after his death, Wycliffe's bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift river.
Around 1454 Gutenberg printed an edition of the Latin Vulgate Bible on the first moveable-type printing press. With this new printing technology books could now be printed faster and cheaper than ever before, a fact that Protestants soon took advantage of. Within a hundred years there was a virtual explosion of Protestant Bibles coming off the new presses.
ITEM #5 THE BIBLE IN ENGLISH IS PRINTED
William Tyndale completed a translation of the New Testament from the Greek in 1525, which church authorities in England tried their best to confiscate and burn. After issuing a revised edition in 1535, he was arrested, spent over a year in jail, and was then strangled and burned at the stake near Brussels in October 6th, 1536. It is estimated today that some 90 percent of the New Testament in the 1611 King James Bible is the work of Tyndale. Tyndale was unable to complete his translation of the Old Testament before his death.
Miles Coverdale, an assistant to Tyndale, completed Tyndale's translation of the Old Testament using Martin Luther's German text and Latin as sources, and in Germany he printed the first complete Bible in English on October 4, 1535.
Matthew's Bible, a composite of the work of Tyndale and Coverdale, probably edited by John Rogers, was published in 1537 under the pseudonym "Thomas Matthew", and was the second complete edition of the Bible printed in English.
Coverdale's "Great Bible", called that because of its size, was published in 1539 and had over 21,000 copies printed in seven editions in only a single year. Working under the patronage of Thomas Cromwell, Coverdale had submitted his Bible via the Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer, and it was published with the authorization of King Henry VIII, whose likely motivation was the realization that the Bible was an effective means of combating papists. Amazingly, at the end of the book of Malachi were the initials W.T., covering half a page, standing for William Tyndale! Beginning with the second edition, the Great Bible included a preface by Thomas Cranmer, and so it is also called Cranmer's Bible.
The English parliament in 1543 passed a law forbidding the use of any English translations other than the "Great Bible". Tyndale's New Testament was specifically prohibited, and later Wycliffe's and Coverdale's Bibles were also banned. It was decreed a crime for any unlicensed person to read or explain the Scriptures in public. Many copies of Tyndale's New Testament and Coverdale's Bible were burned in London, though ironically, the authorized "Great Bible" contained the work of both men!
In 1557 the Geneva Bible was first published, which continued to be popular even years after the King James was available. The Geneva Bible was the version in use during Shakespeare's time, and was often quoted by him in his plays.
In 1559 Queen Elizabeth, a Protestant, decreed that a copy of the Bishop's Bible be placed in every parish church. The Bishop's Bible was printed in 20 editions over 42 years and was the basis for the King James Bible.
Responding to the increasing flood of Protestant Bibles in English, the very first complete Bible in English to be produced by the Catholic Church was the Douay Rheims, a translation from the Latin Vulgate, which was finally completed in the early 17th century. The New Testament was begun in 1578 and finished in Rheims France in 1582, and the Old Testament was finished in 1609-10 in Douay. Note that it had been over two centuries since Wycliffe had completed his English Bible!
In an attempt to combat the swiftly rising tide of Protestantism, the Catholic Church began maintaining lists of the prohibited books which were to be confiscated. Here is an example from England:
Memorandum of a proclamation made at Paul's Cross on the first Sunday in Advent, 1531, against the buying, selling or reading of the following books:
The disputation between father and the son.
The supplication of beggars.
The revelation of AntiChrist.
Liber qui de veteri et novicio Deo inscribitur.
Precaciones.
Economica christiana.
The burying of the mass, in English rhyme.
An exposition into the VII chapter of the Corinthians.
The matrimony of Tyndal.
A B C against the clergy.
Ortulus animae, in English.
A book against Saint Thomas of Canterbury.
A book made by Friar Reye against the seven sacraments.
An answer of Tyndal to Sir Thomas More's dialogue, in English.
A disputation of purgatory, made by John Frythe.
The first book of Moses, called Genesis.
A prologue in the second book of Moses, called Exodus.
A prologue in the third book of Moses, called Leviticus.
A prologue in the fourth book of Moses, called Numeri.
A prologue in the fifth book of Moses, called Deuteronomy.
The practice of prelates.
The New Testament in English, with an introduction to the epistle to the Romans.
The parable of the wicked Mammon.
The obedience of a Christian man.
The book of Thorpe or of John Oldecastell.
The sum of scripture.
The primer in English.
The psalter in English.
A dialogue between the gentlemen and the plowman.
Jonas in English.
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"Cornerstone was a newspaper and later a magazine published by Jesus People USA, focusing on topics of evangelical Christian faith and engagement with politics and culture."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_(magazine)
Cornerstone - by "Jesus People USA".
Jesus People USA (JPUSA) is a Christian intentional community of 400 people [1] in Uptown, on the North Side of Chicago, Illinois. It was founded in 1972,[2] coming out of Jesus People Milwaukee in the Jesus Movement, it is the largest of the few remaining communes from that movement.
If anyone should know whether Rivera was an actual Jesuit - it is the "Jesus People USA"
Might actually be true of some things printed by Christianity Today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_(magazine)
Cornerstone - by "Jesus People USA".
Jesus People USA (JPUSA) is a Christian intentional community of 400 people [1] in Uptown, on the North Side of Chicago, Illinois. It was founded in 1972,[2] coming out of Jesus People Milwaukee in the Jesus Movement, it is the largest of the few remaining communes from that movement.
If anyone should know whether Rivera was an actual Jesuit - it is the "Jesus People USA"
Might actually be true of some things printed by Christianity Today.
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