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sparow

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Define evolution. There is no evidence that I have heard of that suggests humans are evolving to a higher order, like evolving into angels. It is probably true that a Hitler type of animal husbandry could produce a more healthy species but that is not what Darwin had in mind. But if mankind followed he Law of God that would produce a heathier species also.
 
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Hoghead1

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Certainly we humans have evolved way beyond the "caveman days." Also, specifically what do you mean by th4 Law of God? All the biblical laws? If so, would that include the sanctification of slavery, as per Exod. 21? What?
 
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mindlight

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This whole micro-vs-macro way of looking at evolution is purely something unqualified laity do. it has no real place in science.

Microevolution can be scientifically demonstrated while macroevolution cannot. The terms therefore define borders as to what lies in the scope of the scientific method. That a great many scientists do not accept this distinction between science and speculation is what is worrying here.
 
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mindlight

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Technological innovation is evidence of human creativity but not of biological evolution.
 
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mindlight

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Not necessarily. Most mutations are on the genetic level that might not even be recognizable without a specific search for them, and most mutations just don't make any difference.

The genome project thus gives an opportunity to search for such developments
 
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DogmaHunter

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Is there any evidence of beneficiary evolutionary improvements to human beings? By this I mean extra capabilities or gifts.

Tibetans have unique gene sequences wich enables them to live at high altitudes without suffering from altitude-sickness.

If we would go live there, we'ld get light headed and might even pass out, vomit, etc.
Not Tibetans though.

Has the genome project revealed any trends in terms of human evolution that points to a class of people who live among us who are the first to move to a higher state of evolution?

Evolution is not a ladder. Evolution is about blending into the environment. There is no "higher state". At best, there is a "better-fit-for-the-current-environment-state".

Or is evolution a myth when it comes to human beings?

The myth, seems to be your idea on how evolution works.
Aka, the strawman.
 
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Meowzltov

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You have no idea how evolution works.
 
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Meowzltov

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Human ingenuity has overruled much of the selection-side of evolution.

Almost anyone can survive to reproductive age and reproduce, thanks to cultural and scientific factors. So beneficial novelties dont offer much comparative advantage.
I couldn't have said it better.
 
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DogmaHunter

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The theory of macro-evolution posits a series of jumps in capabilities between less developed common ancestors and the later more complex forms that followed them

Dude... there is no "theory of macro-evolution".
I'm sure this has been pointed out to you ad nauseum. There is just the "theory of evolution".

Micro/macro is just about timescales and and arbitrary amount of accumulated genetic changes. They are not different evolutionary processes. The exact same evolutionary mechanism underpins both, because they are the exact same thing, with as only difference, thus, amount of generations and amount of accumulated genetic changes.



The "previous generations", being millions of years ago.
It's not like a primate not capable of abstract thought and tool making suddenly gave birth to a primate with double brain size that could........


The comparison with x men is therefore warranted

No, it's not.

as we are qualitatively that much superior to our supposed ancestors as xmen/heroes/alphas (whichever TV series you watch that share this assumption) would be to us.

No, we aren't.

And let's not forget that in the movie, "normal" parents gave birth to "mutated x-men".

Whereas in the real world, no non-human primate ever gave birth to a homo sapiens.
It took millions of years of small incremental genetic changes. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of generations, in populations of millions of individuals, each adding their own set of mutations and being subject to the "test of life".

It does not happen overnight.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Adaptation and the ability of the human design to change in response to its environment is not necessarily a proof of the larger claims of the evolutionary theory.

It's the exact same process.
If you gain a genetic immunity to some desease, that's evolution.


The jump between ape like ancestors and human beings included things like developing the hardware to support language, tool making, art and abstract thought.

This "jump", as said, didn't happen overnight. It took millions of years of small incremental changes in millions of individuals during thousands upon thousands of generations.

No non-talking, non-human primate has ever given birth to a talking human.

What evidence exists to support the view that these larger jumps are possible or occurring.

Our collective genome doesn't just support it. It proves it.
Common ancestry of primates is a genetic fact.


Jumps that big don't happen overnight. Evolution is a gradual and slow process.


There are a great many examples of disabilities and regressions from the norm but where are the examples of beneficial mutations on the scale of the development of language or tool making?

Such "advances" takes far longer then a single human life time.

Also, don't confuse genetic capabilities and / or potential with technology.
For crying out loud, it took us more then a hundred thousand years to invent writing. Eventhough we HAD language, tool making capabilities and all the fine motoric skills required to be able to write for many millenia.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Didn't 'modern man' burst suddenly on the scene (like T-Rex)?

8 million years of development isn't that "sudden" to me.
Maybe on geological timescale.

Actually the fossil record supports sudden, not gradual, change doesn't it?

No.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Playing the time card simply places your theory beyond the scope of the scientific method.

/facepalm....

Dude, if it's a slow process, then it's a slow process. We can't speed it up, just so you can wrap your head around it...

Having said that, we don't need to see a chimp-like primate evolve into a homo sapiens to know that that is exactly what happened.

For the exact same reason that we don't need to observe your parents having sex to know that they are your biological parents....


No observable experiments can be run to prove these connections or timespans whether in a single generation or over thousands of years.

We can compare genomes and prove beyond any reasonable doubt that humans and the other great apes (and by extension, all animals) share ancestry.


Again, it's not the amount of individuals that matters. It's the amount of generations.

Why is it, that every time someone argues against such a solid scientific theory, it turns out that they don't understand it??
 
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Justatruthseeker

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You have no idea how evolution works.

No one does, not even evolutionists, because there is no such thing.

Asian mates with Asian and produces ONLY Asian. African mates with African and produces ONLY African. Only when Asian mates with African is variation (Afro-Asian) ever seen in the species.

Husky mates with Husky and produces ONLY Husky. Mastiff mates with Mastiff and produces ONLY Mastiff. Only whe Husky mates with Mastiff is variation (Chinook) ever seen in the species.

Granted, I understand it works differently in your fantasies, but since you have never observed the evolution of one species into another, your claims are quite hollow. While on the other hand we can see from direct observation how variation does occur in the species. And neither the Asian nor the African evolves into the Afro-Asian. Nor does the Husky or Mastiff evolve into the Chinook. Only you require a process never once observed to explain variation, while I on the other hand only need what we have observed since the very first observation was made.
 
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DogmaHunter

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No one does, not even evolutionists, because there is no such thing.

No, no. It's just you.


Evolution doesn't claim otherwise. You are arguing against a strawman.

Granted, I understand it works differently in your fantasies, but since you have never observed the evolution of one species into another

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

While on the other hand we can see from direct observation how variation does occur in the species.

Every newborn of every species has a set of mutations.
In humans, the mutation rate is about 55 per newborn.

That's 55 things in your DNA that you didn't get from your parents, but which you will pass on to your off spring (if you manage to reproduce).

Only you require a process never once observed to explain variation

Mutation in every newborn is very observable.

while I on the other hand only need what we have observed since the very first observation was made.

...and a misrepresentation of that actual theory of biology.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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What solid scientific theory?

Asian mates with Asian and produces ONLY Asian. African mates with African and produces ONLY African. Only when Asian mates with African is variation (Afro-Asian) ever seen in the species.

Husky mates with Husky and produces ONLY Husky. Mastiff mates with Mastiff and produces ONLY Mastiff. Only whe Husky mates with Mastiff is variation (Chinook) ever seen in the species.

Neither the Asian nor the African evolves into the Afro-Asian. Nor does the Husky or Mastiff evolve into the Chinook.

The only thing you have backing your theory is the incorrect classification of the fossil record. T-Rex remained T-Rex from the oldest fossil found to the youngest fossil found - as did all of them. The fact you ignore how variation occurs in the species is unscientific. In all cases you ignore the infraspecific taxa any creature must have mated with to create variation. Nothing evolved into anything, it happens by the interchange of genes from different infraspecific taxa.

If evolutionists had never seen a dog in life, bit only in fossils, you would claim the Husky or the Mastiff evolved into the Chinook. Worse yet you would list them all as separate species, just like you have incorrectly done in the fossil record. The fact that you refuse to accept what it right before your eyes, shows your theory is based on pure belief - with no science at all.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Every newborn of every species has a set of mutations.
In humans, the mutation rate is about 55 per newborn.

And regardless - the Asian remains Asian and the African remains African. Once again - stop ignoring the observational evidence. ONLY when the Asian and the African infraspecific taxa mate - does variation occur in the species itself.

That's 55 things in your DNA that you didn't get from your parents, but which you will pass on to your off spring (if you manage to reproduce).

Which changes the Asian infraspecific taxa not at all. They remain Asian and always will.



Mutation in every newborn is very observable.

Oh we agree, when mutations happen it is very observable.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bir...ved=0ahUKEwig2Zf_s7vMAhVILSYKHW0lCLAQ_AUIBigB



...and a misrepresentation of that actual theory of biology.

A quite factual representation of it. It's not my fault you can't except what you see right before your eyes. But you have that problem with birds too for some reason.
 
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DogmaHunter

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What solid scientific theory?

In this case, biological evolution.


Evolution doesn't claim otherwise. We can only guess what your point is. Aside from putting up a strawman, off course.

The only thing you have backing your theory is the incorrect classification of the fossil record

You could make every fossil on the planet disappear and the genetic evidence alone would be more then enough to prove common ancestry of extant life.

Genetic evidence proves common ancestry.
Fossil evidence merely supports it.

And claiming that fossils are "incorrectly" classified, doesn't make it so.
If you think you know that much better then those thousands of paleontologists, biologists, and whatnot... You are free to write a paper and show them all wrong.
A nobel prize awaits you.

However, I'ld advice you to first actually learn about evolution theory, because with your current "knowledge", you'll only be laughed at.



Perhaps you should first learn about basic genetics and the nature of nested hierarchies in living things, and then try again.
 
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