Are God's laws reasonable or arbitrary?

[public hermit]

If we all assume that God's laws are authoritative simply because God is God, it still leaves open the question if whether those laws are arbitrary or reasonable.

If a law of God is reasonable, then it is not arbitrary. If it is arbitrary, then it is not reasonable.

Maybe it's the case that some are reasonable and some not.

What do you think? Are God's laws reasonable or arbitrary?

Edit: if you argue a law is reasonable, then you will be able to provide a reason for said law that does not reduce to "because God said so."

 

[joshua 1 9]

Are God's laws reasonable or arbitrary?

Perhaps we should ask Science. Are the laws of Science reasonable or arbitrary? The universe is very fine tuned, very exact and very precise. I have a friend that works on machinery that is accurate within a millionth. It is a three million dollar machine, but it is accurate. In the same way the Bible is very accurate and precise if we go by the original language. The problems we have are in translation and interpretation. The question then is to what degree do people walk with God. Reasonable or arbitrary can be used to measure how close or distant we are in relation to God. "Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman stays awake in vain." (psalm 127:1)

 

[Bob S]

Are you referring to the Law given to the children of Israel or all laws that God has given mankind since the creation of the Earth?

Which category from the list below are you referring to concerning the word arbitrary?

1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.
2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.
3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.
4. capricious; unreasonable; unsupported: an arbitrary demand for payment.

Choose from the list below the synonyms that best describes arbitrary.

• capricious
• discretionary
• erratic
• frivolous
• inconsistent
• irrational
• irresponsible
• random
• subjective
• unreasonable
• willful
• approximate
• fanciful
• injudicious
• offhand
• optional
• supercilious
• superficial
• unaccountable

Answering the above will get us off on the correct path as to what you are testing us about.

 

[public hermit]

Are you referring to the Law given to the children of Israel or all laws that God has given mankind since the creation of the Earth?

Which category from the list below are you referring to concerning the word arbitrary?

1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.
2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.
3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.
4. capricious; unreasonable; unsupported: an arbitrary demand for payment.

Choose from the list below the synonyms that best describes arbitrary.

• capricious
• discretionary
• erratic
• frivolous
• inconsistent
• irrational
• irresponsible
• random
• subjective
• unreasonable
• willful
• approximate
• fanciful
• injudicious
• offhand
• optional
• supercilious
• superficial
• unaccountable

Answering the above will get us off on the correct path as to what you are testing us about.

It's not a test. It's a question. We can define arbitrary as "without reason."

 

[Shrewd Manager]

If we all assume that God's laws are authoritative simply because God is God, it still leaves open the question if whether those laws are arbitrary or reasonable.

If a law of God is reasonable, then it is not arbitrary. If it is arbitrary, then it is not reasonable.

Maybe it's the case that some are reasonable and some not.

What do you think? Are God's laws reasonable or arbitrary?

Edit: if you argue a law is reasonable, then you will be able to provide a reason for said law that does not reduce to "because God said so."

I'd suggest God's laws are better conceptualised as natural laws than glorified man-made laws. For instance, if you sleep with your neighbour's wife, bad things are liable to happen. (And no, I'm not speaking from experience of this one!). The law is His way of expressing the design/ logos of creation to dunderheads.

He formalises the law with specific punishments and atonements in the Torah, which may seem arbitrary, but are no doubt precisely calculated on a perfect universal retributive and restorative scale, on the basis that God knows a sparrow's fall and hates an unjust measure.

 

[timothyu]

Man for the most part works inward rather than outward as originally intended. Would not any 'law' that reminds us we have it backwards in pursuing self interest, be with reason?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If a law of God is reasonable, then it is not arbitrary. If it is arbitrary, then it is not reasonable.

If you've ever been tormented by a child asking "why?" to every answer you give, you'll know that every reason has a reason behind it. Eventually, that chain of reasoning has to start somewhere arbitrary, because all of creation started with something arbitrary. The fact that the universe exists at all is arbitrary, because God wanted it to exist.

A law only seems reasonable if the line of reasoning goes back farther than our effort to understand it.

What do you think? Are God's laws reasonable or arbitrary?

We could look at one of his laws, for example, the law of gravity. The notion that everything keeps falling toward the Earth, even if it means shattering to bits, through no fault of its own, seems rather arbitrary on its face. If a man transgresses it and falls to the Earth he is executed by the law of God. That seems heartless and arbitrary. Yet, without it we are flung into space and perish. We could make a lot of arguments that it could have been done differently. Gravity could have had a limit, to avoid harmful effects, or outer space could have been habitable, etc. God's mind worked as such that gravity in its current state was necessary to create the manner of universe that he wanted. Why he wanted that kind of universe is as arbitrary as preferring strawberry over chocolate ice cream. All I know is that it was in his mind to create such a thing.

 

[public hermit]

Man for the most part works inward rather than outward as originally intended. Would not any 'law' that reminds us we have it backwards in pursuing self interest, be with reason?

I think that would be a reason.

 

[timothyu]

We could make a lot of arguments that it could have been done differently.

Or just learn to not jump.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

for example, the law of gravity.

Gravity is only a theory, and no law of God. Either Newtonian (attraction of masses) or Einsteinian (warping of spacetime). Never proven. Objects have a given acceleration to freefall and then constant velocity, which could be described as laws. But are these really effects of some 'mystery force' known as gravity, Master Yoda, or just Babylon religion masquerading as science, falsely so-called?

You see, the devil comes in and mixes turds in with our fresh salad. Soon we start getting steered offcourse by all manner of creeping unbiblical arbitrary and false 'laws of God'.

 

[Aussie Pete]

If we all assume that God's laws are authoritative simply because God is God, it still leaves open the question if whether those laws are arbitrary or reasonable.

If a law of God is reasonable, then it is not arbitrary. If it is arbitrary, then it is not reasonable.

Maybe it's the case that some are reasonable and some not.

What do you think? Are God's laws reasonable or arbitrary?

Edit: if you argue a law is reasonable, then you will be able to provide a reason for said law that does not reduce to "because God said so."

Every one of God's laws have a purpose and are entirely good.

 

[public hermit]

Every one of God's laws have a purpose and are entirely good.

Can you give us a reason or reasons for why you say they have reason and are good?

 

[Aussie Pete]

Can you give us a reason or reasons for why you say they have reason and are good?

Yes. If we followed God's laws absolutely, the world would be happier, healthier, far more peaceful, more just, honest and unselfish. The weather would be better. Crops would grow better and food would be bountiful. That's all I can think of at short notice. Oh, God's law is perfect. We are not. That's where the problem lies, not with the law of God.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Scientifically discussing gravity, we can talk about the law of gravity that describes the attraction between two objects, and we can also talk about the theory of gravity that describes why the objects attract each other.

7He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

 

[public hermit]

If you've ever been tormented by a child asking "why?" to every answer you give, you'll know that every reason has a reason behind it. Eventually, that chain of reasoning has to start somewhere arbitrary, because all of creation started with something arbitrary. The fact that the universe exists at all is arbitrary, because God wanted it to exist.

A law only seems reasonable if the line of reasoning goes back farther than our effort to understand it.



We could look at one of his laws, for example, the law of gravity. The notion that everything keeps falling toward the Earth, even if it means shattering to bits, through no fault of its own, seems rather arbitrary on its face. If a man transgresses it and falls to the Earth he is executed by the law of God. That seems heartless and arbitrary. Yet, without it we are flung into space and perish. We could make a lot of arguments that it could have been done differently. Gravity could have had a limit, to avoid harmful effects, or outer space could have been habitable, etc. God's mind worked as such that gravity in its current state was necessary to create the manner of universe that he wanted. Why he wanted that kind of universe is as arbitrary as preferring strawberry over chocolate ice cream. All I know is that it was in his mind to create such a thing.

Thank you for giving this response. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying, behind any reason we give for why God's laws are reasonable, eventually we come to a place where we can give no reason.

Does that mean God's laws are ultimately arbitrary, or is it just our limitations? And if human limitation prevents us from giving reasons for God's laws, then can we really say they are reasonable? I am inclined to think you would say , "No, we cannot say God's laws are reasonable."

 

[Maria Billingsley]

If we all assume that God's laws are authoritative simply because God is God, it still leaves open the question if whether those laws are arbitrary or reasonable.

If a law of God is reasonable, then it is not arbitrary. If it is arbitrary, then it is not reasonable.

Maybe it's the case that some are reasonable and some not.

What do you think? Are God's laws reasonable or arbitrary?

Edit: if you argue a law is reasonable, then you will be able to provide a reason for said law that does not reduce to "because God said so."

I assume we are speaking of the 613 Mitzvot Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
God's law is perfect and reasonable however not easily followed by Israel.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Scientifically discussing gravity, we can talk about the law of gravity that describes the attraction between two objects,

There's no such law. Never proven. And please don't demean us both by bringing up Cavendish.

 

[Halbhh]

If we all assume that God's laws are authoritative simply because God is God, it still leaves open the question if whether those laws are arbitrary or reasonable.

If a law of God is reasonable, then it is not arbitrary. If it is arbitrary, then it is not reasonable.

Maybe it's the case that some are reasonable and some not.

What do you think? Are God's laws reasonable or arbitrary?

Edit: if you argue a law is reasonable, then you will be able to provide a reason for said law that does not reduce to "because God said so."

Thank you for giving this response. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying, behind any reason we give for why God's laws are reasonable, eventually we come to a place where we can give no reason.

Does that mean God's laws are ultimately arbitrary, or is it just our limitations? And if human limitation prevents us from giving reasons for God's laws, then can we really say they are reasonable? I am inclined to think you would say , "No, we cannot say God's laws are reasonable."

To me the evident (from seeing it happen in life) effect of the laws in the Bible, such as =
"In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you"
= is that all of the laws make actual life -- the amount of love, enjoyment, energy, spirit -- stronger, better.

This applies even about laws where you'd not think so, some detailed regulation and ceremonial laws in the Hebrew bible. Israel at that point needed laws that got more detailed, and became incremental steps in the right direction, as Israel had failed over and over to keep the full spirit of more general laws such as 'do not steal' and 'do not covet' -- they failed and failed and failed to keep these. (And even the ceremonial laws were very helpful, in that a people marching through the desert with nothing to do, and lacking adequate faith, needed both structure and also a way to focus on God more fully.)

So, therefore Israel needed the kind of fencing micro laws we see in those times, as a kind of bridge, from there to here. Like incremental baby steps from the place one is at to a somewhat better place, progressively.

But from Christ in the gospels we hear the law in it's more full and perfect form, the law of "love one another" being perfected in application.

How none of this is arbitrary: it supports life, instead of death.

Not keeping those laws leads to conflict, murder, war.

Keeping them leads to peace and love, literally.

 

[Halbhh]

About the discussion of the natural laws of nature which is of course God's creation, how nature works, gravity and such -- of course these are just the functioning mechanism He designed, and are not in the scripture.

Just like you don't need to know about the chemistry used for the tires of your car, but instead you'd better learn the traffic laws and how to drive, as what you really need, so also the scripture is about what we most need, to guide us in our relationship with God and each other. Compared to that, mere chemistry and physics isn't nearly as important, and would be a distraction.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

About the discussion of the natural laws of nature which is of course God's creation, how nature works, gravity and such -- of course these are just the functioning mechanism He designed, and are not in the scripture.

Just like you don't need to know about the chemistry used for the tires of your car, but instead you'd better learn the traffic laws and how to drive, as what you really need, so also the scripture is about what we most need, to guide us in our relationship with God and each other. Compared to that, mere chemistry and physics isn't nearly as important, and would be a distraction.

Agreed in principle, but we know a lot less about the laws of matter than we think. And earth is the devil's playground.