Are Family Run Churches OK?

[ChristianCenturion]

While I appreciate your counter thoughts, the accusations against this church leadership are neither false nor simple gossip. Literally half of the church split from it after only 3-1/2 years because of the allegations I mentioned and much more that I haven't mentioned.

The purpose of this thread was to discuss how family run churches should or shouldn't operate. I've never been involved with a church like this before or since, and it is just a puzzling notion to me.

Most of the allegations you mentioned is common practices scattered here and there and are not something to quarrel over much less split over. You happened not to mention that they were found guilty of something or mentioned that they already had division and you still haven't mentioned other instances (which is fine, I would rather not hear). I will assume that other instances were more serious than throwing a party for the pastor's wife, etc. - which is voluntary BTW.
I don't know what happened, all I have to go on is what you say and it is good practice not to go and run with only one side of the story. Either way, I hope justice was served and people found a church that they can serve properly. Are you in a better church now?

 

[AveMaria]

Witholding of financial information is a big red flag for me, as is ostracizing any church members who asked questions about the finances.

To a lesser extent, having the entire church staff be family is a red flag (maybe a pink flag?) - not necessarily bad, assuming they'll all qualified, but I think it could create bizarre dynamics and I'd seriously wonder why no one was hired from outside the family.

 

[nightingale]

Most of the allegations you mentioned is common practices scattered here and there and are not something to quarrel over much less split over. You happened not to mention that they were found guilty of something or mentioned that they already had division and you still haven't mentioned other instances (which is fine, I would rather not hear). I will assume that other instances were more serious than throwing a party for the pastor's wife, etc. - which is voluntary BTW.
I don't know what happened, all I have to go on is what you say and it is good practice not to go and run with only one side of the story. Either way, I hope justice was served and people found a church that they can serve properly. Are you in a better church now?

Most of the allegations mentioned (or not) are not common practices at all. I've never been in a church or heard of one before that lavished so much money, attention and time on the pastor and family - and hope I never have to again. Churches should be about worshiping Christ and serving others - not worshiping and serving the minister/minister's family.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Most of the allegations mentioned (or not) are not common practices at all. I've never been in a church or heard of one before that lavished so much money, attention and time on the pastor and family - and hope I never have to again. Churches should be about worshiping Christ and serving others - not worshiping and serving the minister/minister's family.

Perhaps I missed something then. I only saw one reference that addressed anything that could even be construed as lavishing or attention to a family member(s) (in that case it was the voluntary birthday party for the pastor's wife). The others appeared to be open to all and various duties for taking care of church business. I think I hit up the list you gave in my post:
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=17030051&postcount=18

I'm not really inclined to speak for their actions, but I simply am not seeing what is called obviously bad or illicit behavior. I may agree with unwise and questionable, but then again I don't really know what went or goes on in that church.

 

[peepnklown]

you're not very creative are you - lol! you could do better than that couldn't you??

You don’t need to be very creative for a group of people who believe in invisible beings.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

You don’t need to be very creative for a group of people who believe in invisible beings.

Ah yes, but here you are devoting time at displaying your contempt at a site that is based on Christianity and professing the power and glory of God. I'll take the believers over the unhealthy hostility and anti-social deviancy any day.

 

[Harlan Norris]

The main problem I had with the Christian religion was the fleecing the flock syndrome. I assumed that all churches were guilty of this, and that Christianity was nothing more than a business. However this is not always the case. The first church I attended as a believer, had a pastor that actually forgot to take the collection. The church I now attend has collection boxes, so your donation is between you and God. No one knows what if anything you put in. If a church is a business first. I'd say God is not in it.

 

[nightingale]

If a church is a business first. I'd say God is not in it.

That one sentence sums it up nicely in my opinion. I'm wondering how many family-run churches have pastors who are in the "ministry" just for the money/career.

I think Jesus had the right idea when he ran the money-changers out of the temple courtyard.

 

[nightingale]

You don’t need to be very creative for a group of people who believe in invisible beings.

Maybe you should expand your ministry since there are a lot of people who also believe in the wind, which is invisible. The most innovative and creative people ever to walk the earth have been Christians - you need to start reading a little history my friend.

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29

 

[Nymphalidae]

Maybe you should expand your ministry since there are a lot of people who also believe in the wind, which is invisible. The most innovative and creative people ever to walk the earth have been Christians - you need to start reading a little history my friend.

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29

No, you need to read some history before you make such statements. Who invented gunpowder? Who invented democracy? Who invented algebra? Who invented astronomy? Agriculture? Writing? The Romans, Greeks, Egyptians and others did a whole lot of inventing before Jesus supposedly walked the earth. Afterwards the Muslims, Chinese, Japanese and others did a whole lot of inventing and empire building while Europe languished in the Middle Ages. It's not like Europe was the only place in the entire world with a civilization. Were you under the impression that all the scientists and artists and thinkers today are Christian? Because they're not.

 

[nightingale]

No, you need to read some history before you make such statements...

That is interesting how you two cut into a discussion on a Christian forum about Christian matters, continuously slander non-atheists and then dis my statements - go figure...

 

[Nymphalidae]

People think that magnets have healing powers. Tricking people out of their money is not a challenge.

That is the only thing I posted before my response to your post. How is this slandering non-atheists? My statement was referring to all people everywhere.

 

[nightingale]

That is the only thing I posted before my response to your post. How is this slandering non-atheists? My statement was referring to all people everywhere.

My statement referred to Christians, which obviously meant people within the last 2000 years - not ancient civilizations and the number systems, sun clocks, etc. I'm not quite sure what got your dander up.

This thread is about family-run churches. My mistake was to reply to posts from you and the other atheist who have a habit of hijacking threads.

 

[Nymphalidae]

If you ignore us, we'll go away. Just like the rest of reality.

 

[nightingale]

If you ignore us, we'll go away. Just like the rest of reality.

If you were a Christian, do you think family-run churches would be ethical?

 

[Nymphalidae]

The most innovative and creative people ever to walk the earth have been Christians - you need to start reading a little history my friend.

This is what you said. What you didn't say was "The most innovative and creative Christians ever to walk the earth have been Christians." If you had said "Many Christians are innovative and creative," that would have been a correct statement. However, as it stands, neither your original statement, nor your claim that your statement only referred to Christians, is correct.

I correct people when I feel they need to be corrected. Your statement was incorrect. I corrected you.

 

[Nymphalidae]

If you were a Christian, do you think family-run churches would be ethical?

Yes. What is unethical is not being honest about the finances of the church.

 

[nightingale]

...I correct people when I feel they need to be corrected. Your statement was incorrect. I corrected you.

Ok - that still doesn't change the fact that imo the most innovative and creative people happen to be Christians. But you are entitled to your opinion.

You make a good point about family-run churches. I just don't know if there are very many of them that are not conducted like self-interest family businesses.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Ok - that still doesn't change the fact that imo the most innovative and creative people happen to be Christians. But you are entitled to your opinion.

You make a good point about family-run churches. I just don't know if there are very many of them that are not conducted like self-interest family businesses.

Have you been to an impoverished nation or poorer districts?

 

[nightingale]

Have you been to an impoverished nation or poorer districts?

Which impoverished nation or poorer district are you referring to that has family-run churches? Even in those types of areas there can be systems of checks and balances.