Are Christian seminaries necessary?

[carlos123]

Incidentally ya all...I would be careful going to the link in ChristGirl95's post. Especially if you are running Windows. Under Linux which I run on, it tries to activate a program to process the link. Since it's Linux such an attempt fails but under Windows...who knows what it might do. Suspicious.

I cannot view ChristGirl95's other posts on this forum (though she has a post count of 39) and she has virtually no info on her forum page. Again suspicious.

Just thought I would let everyone know.

Carlos

 

[Fireinfolding]

You know I just wish that I could sit and listen to someone, somewhere who could share (not teach) with me about how God is real to them every day. How they see Him provide for them. Take care of them in tough circumstances. How he comforts their hearts. Reproves them when necessary. How He comes to them in the still hours of the night and speaks softly into their ears about something He wants to say to them.

You know what I mean?

The real deal. Not just intellectual acknowledgement of certain biblical truths but a real relationship with a real being...God our Father.

Most teachings at church are on the intellectual side of things. We need that yes, but I want to also hear about how real God is in people's lives.

That kind of reality can't be taught in seminaries. It doesn't happen overnight. It involves relationship with Him every day, in and out. Through the rough times and the good.

Seminary or not, I would travel an hour each way to go and get with Christians like that. Every day. Anytime. If I could at all do so. Alas they are in shorter supply than gold on the ground it would seem.

Carlos

I agree Carlos, church made sad (in a strange sorta way) and made me starved for fellowship (I wasnt finding there). I felt like the uncomfortable bench (itself) just an ornament glued to a seat (trying to be obedient) as I listened to what seemed like empty lectures. Touching knees with the guy next to me is not fellowship. I think the first Church had it right, homes (not empires) theres more intimacy there.

I remember leaving asking God, "This the best you got here"? Is THIS what Im supposed to call fellowship? I told Him I must be ~missing something~ (call me blind here) cause I wasnt fallen down within me saying GOD is truly among ya all (type deal). Im joking in the way I'm putting it. I joke to myself about the "gifts" of the Spirit being reduced to bathroom duty, floor sweeping and adminstrative paperwork (and such).

Not sure if theres any comparison to the book of acts in all, if there is Im missing it

Wishful thinking (maybe) but I dont want it to be unto me as I believed and reduce myself to having no hope for better things. I entered Church 18 years ago and left after the first three months, I made a multitude of "attempts" to go back but Id just cry as soon as I got there and left to sit in the parking lot. I dont know why, I just always did then I stopped all my attempts and resigned myself to not returning.

From that point it took about twelve years after I started seeking Him on my own that these little stars (as I call them) started to appear in my life. Every one of these (just as myself) were on ~the outside~ too (seeking Him) and these felt very much the same way I did. I found a sorta common bond with them because I thought I was the only weirdo (as I regarded myself). So the stars began to "appear" for me at that time.

The thought just came to me (while I was writing) ~there appeared no sun nor stars for many days~ and how true that ~feels~ to my very own experience! lol

So (for me) fellowship was a very long time in coming. God has truly been faithful. In His time He surely knit me together with others and did just as He sees fit for me and this feels right. Since we were alone and seeking Him for these many years we just felt this awesome gratefulness for each other. You know what I love the most? That we can talk about anything without taking offense. Its great to explore the tops and bottoms of things without mens boundaries on us. Its great to trust God to create them. We (all equal) actually have FUN learning and being quicked together daily. I guess its because it was the first time either one of us ever learned with another, this felt free. This is very much unlike that which goes on in the institutions (controlling and dominated) where everything lays gaurded for fear of deception. That attitude actually makes me think of the guys who sealed off the Lords tomb in some strange way.

But anyway all things truly work together for the good of those who love the Lord.

I had some things to learn (as I am still learning). I kept trying to wear these shoes (in ways very hard to describe) that just would not fit me. I had to stop trying to force these certain shoes (that were not of interest to me or fitting) but I thought was expected of me. Then I started to feel more comfortable in the pair He suited to me and all went much better. I speak in respects to my leading, reading, hearing, and standing in what I was uncertain of in the beginning of my walk but is become ever so much more certain. I discovered the same struggle in those He would knit me with.

These things are so hard to describe (experiencially). Im not even sure Im saying it well. Im not an articulate well formed intellectual with great skill in being clear in much of anything.

More often then not Carlos if one of us feeling somethings off (specially if the longing is pure) theres always someone else out there (with the same) feeling nearly identical to that.

The problem is you cant say anything, well especially me cause I have a vagina and a point of view, thats not allowed there So not much out of my mouth would be welcomed hearing. Put up and shut up or leave.

Leaving was indeed for the better.

God provided my perfect situation too. To this day I see it as Him parting the Red Sea for me (Gosh I love Him ). My little miracle and precious journey to Him (I say) began most vividly from that point forward.

Others like whom you might seeking to bond with are out there Carlos. I find they are often more quiet in set ups like this and other places. Personally, I know I would NEVER open my heart on a board. Some seek to CRUSH it (in His name ofcourse). Im distrusting, Ive learned to be and I'd think myself utterly stupid to open my heart (that which I am to gaurd) where men dont fear to tread. I know my own boundaries, and accustomed to how it all works and try not to get emotionally pulled in.

I find that (even) in those He knit me with, that they feel the exact same way. Because of this, its become natural (in my thinking) to enter a board of Christians with a gaurded (rather then an open heart) which I find sad, but saying so changes nothing. So I find its harder to find these precious ones (who do the very same). In my thinking I regard one as a "safe place" and the other as a "not so safe place". I regard my freinds (Im knitted with) as my gifts (as I regard them) from Him to me with every ounce of affection in my heart. But if we were on the same board together we would never talk to each other openly as we go off in private (concerning the Lord). They are (to me) second to Him in my heart. The blessing of the fellowship in the Spirit of our God EXCEEDS what my heart had ever so longed for and I lie not before Christ. I cherish ~such ones~. When you ever come to find what your heart seeks (as it pertains to pure blessed fellowship) your heart will leap for the joy of His fellowship you have with them.

Whats so odd (well to me it is) was that it took twelve years. Then from every part of the world (never sitting under one roof ever together) they hear the same sound, and that in itself (honestly) baffled me. Then it was like He asked me, "Why should it"? I thought, MAN, Im so stupid Lord your so right! You can teach anyone anywhere and if they be hearing YOU they will indeed hear one another. You dont need to sit under the same roof to sit under the same Teacher when its His feet your sitting at.

What I love in them is they got a little joyful sound Theres definately a distinction in their "sound" I look for these. Its precious, their eye is singularly on Him and their words have blessed wings and lift my soul higher in Him. Indeed they are a source of strength and refreshment to me in Christ. God be praised for the light that shines in and through them. So unencumbered by religious trappings, hypocricies, evil suspicions and the like, it just feels pure, it feels right, and just as fellowship should feel like. I could wish for nothing more (in regards to them) BUT always MORE OF HIM

I can only say that I found God more marvelous in my eyes in my knowing the Him in them, How incredible He is!

Though, I must add Its a pretty common practice to use mufflers on "all of that" in public gatherings.

No one desires their pearls to be trampled do they?

I wonder if thats taught in seminary?

MAN that was A MONSTER POST, I didnt realize it was that long Carlos... Print it off and talk to me next year Sorry bout that

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[dcyates]

I personally think that; not only are seminaries not necessary, but are in most cases dangerous to a person’s spiritual health.

After a person has been brought to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, by the Christians preachers, teachers, pastors, and have been given the Holy Spirit it is no longer necessary to be taught by man, right?

Did Paul go to a seminary? Did man teach Paul? Doesn’t every Christian have the same Holy Spirit given to them as Paul had given to him?

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

(John 16:13) “But when the Spirit of truth comes he will lead you to the complete truth, since he will not be speaking as from himself but will say only what he has learnt; and he will tell you of the things to come.”

(1 Corinthians 1:19-21) “As scripture says: I shall destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nothing all the learning of the learned. Where are the philosophers now? Where are the scribes? Where are any of our thinkers today? Do you see now how God has shown up the foolishness of human wisdom? If it was God’s wisdom that human wisdom should not know God, it was because God wanted to save those who have faith through the foolishness of the message that we preach.”

(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ Who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

Okay. If all you need is the Bible with no outside help from other learned, seminary-trained people, what does this say?

בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
והארץ היתה תהו ובהו וחשׁך על־פני תהום ורוח אלהים מרחפת על־פני המים׃
ויאמר אלהים יהי אור ויהי־אור׃
וירא אלהים את־האור כי־טוב ויבדל אלהים בין האור ובין החשׁך׃
ויקרא אלהים לאור יום ולחשׁך קרא לילה ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום אחד׃​

If you can't, then you're relying on the education, training and teaching of others.​

 

[dcyates]

My first pastor went to school (ofcourse) but that man knew not a thing, who passes out these degrees?

Maybe they benefit some but if you heard some of the lame brain things I heard, you'd conclude his education did him no good. It would do those under him no good either. If it is a commanded thing (from tradition) or something(?) I dont know. Id be questioning those who are mandating this sort of education I suppose. I dont know or understand the ins and outs of it, so Im speaking out of my own ignorance. But if someone loves the Lord and desires to serve Him, I betcha (even know) God is big enough to teach them. Afterall, thats the NC

Though, the creature being subject to vanity might come into play here


Peace

Fireinfolding

But at the same time, Fireinfolding, I doubt there's a medical school in existence that hasn't produced a bad doctor at one time or another, yet I'd be willing to wager you would still want the physician you were seeing to have graduated from medical school. Right?

 

[Giver]

But at the same time, Fireinfolding, I doubt there's a medical school in existence that hasn't produced a bad doctor at one time or another, yet I'd be willing to wager you would still want the physician you were seeing to have graduated from medical school. Right?

It is so sad that one can’t see the difference between learning physical and spiritual knowledge. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14) “Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.”

 

[Giver]

Okay. If all you need is the Bible with no outside help from other learned, seminary-trained people, what does this say?

בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
והארץ היתה תהו ובהו וחשׁך על־פני תהום ורוח אלהים מרחפת על־פני המים׃
ויאמר אלהים יהי אור ויהי־אור׃
וירא אלהים את־האור כי־טוב ויבדל אלהים בין האור ובין החשׁך׃
ויקרא אלהים לאור יום ולחשׁך קרא לילה ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום אחד׃​

If you can't, then you're relying on the education, training and teaching of others.​

No I am relying on the Holy Spirit guiding others to translate those words correctly. Also when they haven’t done so, and the Holy Spirit wants me to know it, he tells me.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I personally think that; not only are seminaries not necessary, but are in most cases dangerous to a person’s spiritual health.

After a person has been brought to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, by the Christians preachers, teachers, pastors, and have been given the Holy Spirit it is no longer necessary to be taught by man, right?

I completely agree . Not to mention that seminaries only promte endless doctrines and these doctrines agreed to by those seminaries . They also show how to brainwash others to believe those doctrines .

 

[tadoflamb]

Tadster, why you worrying bout what others think?

Heck bro, I stay home not doing what either Catholics or protestants do. I make no disctintions save by the fruit in anothers life in the Lord. Shouldnt that be the same everywhere? Not all those thrown into the protestant pile landed there from the original protest (that split the two) yet not all walk in the same like manner.

Why be 100% Catholic or protestant? Why not be 100% in your heart to be led of the Spirit and leave it at that?

Go wherever you feel comforted and edified. Be that in a building wherein those call themselves "catholic" or in a building among those that call themselves (by the numberous names) found under protestism?

Id not want to lead someone to being a protestant (under whichever name that might be) but Christ.

Dont want no other name on my ~forehead~ but His Fathers if you know what I mean?

Peace

Fireinfolding

Good Morning Fie-yah,

On one of these upcoming days (I forgot to write down the date) five years ago, all by my lonesome, spurred only by the promptings of the Holy Spirit, I gave up and surrendered myself to the Lord. I had no idea what I was getting into at the time. So, I prayed to Jesus that I might come to know Him the way He wanted to be known. After that, it was all system go towards the Catholic Church. The only reason I'm Catholic is because I am convinced it was my Holy Father's absolute desire. Now that I am Catholic I'm so happy to be home. It's awesome!

The problem with me is that I've discovered a whole new expression of Christianity and while I don't really understand you guys, I still want to know what makes you guys tick. There are some very passionate people around here and that's what I like about this place. What freaks me out is the that I do take you all in ernest, and so when I'm told to examine the scriptures, pray for guidance, or whatever..., I do, and when I do, I always get pointed back to the Catholic Church. It's mind blowing sometimes, and fortunately God hasn't gotten tired of me asking "really, Lord?"

So, Fie-yah, I appreciate how much you share yourself with this community. I'm always interested in what you have to say and what you have managed to find in the Word. It's a lot of fun. I guess as a young Christian I get kind of confused by the amount of teaching that I just can't make part of my heart. There are many opinions being expressed here; many of them opposed to what I have found to be the truth. It's tough getting them all sorted out sometimes.

Have a blessed day!

I'm going on vacation!!!

Tad

 

[tadoflamb]

Hey Marv,

Thanks for your post. As usual, it was concise, candid and to the point.

All believers are priests, a minister is no more a priest than any other believer, seminary has nothing to do with priesthood. It seems to me you are confusing being a minister, a servant, with being a priest. Maybe that is due to the Roman Catholic mistake of recreating the Old Testament Levitical priesthood which has priests as just one group of God's people, and not the New Testament priesthood in which Jesus is the high priest and all believers are his priests?

If this is all true, why do Lutheran ministers still wear priestly vestments?

Thanks again,

Tad

 

[sunlover1]

I'm going on vacation!!!

Tad

AWESome!

Hey tad, I was only playing earlier about
fishing for trouble.
Wanted to make sure you know that.
If you know me, you know I'm not
vindictive.
God wont let us be will he?
lol.

have a wonderful time.
sunlover

 

[tadoflamb]

AWESome!

Hey tad, I was only playing earlier about
fishing for trouble.
Wanted to make sure you know that.
If you know me, you know I'm not
vindictive.
God wont let us be will he?
lol.

have a wonderful time.
sunlover

I know you were kidding. It's a little hard discerning where people are coming from on the internet sometimes, but your sweet Christian spirit shines through loud and clear!

No, God won't let us be. Thanks be to God!

MGby!

Tad

 

[Fireinfolding]

Good Morning Fie-yah,

On one of these upcoming days (I forgot to write down the date) five years ago, all by my lonesome, spurred only by the promptings of the Holy Spirit, I gave up and surrendered myself to the Lord. I had no idea what I was getting into at the time. So, I prayed to Jesus that I might come to know Him the way He wanted to be known. After that, it was all system go towards the Catholic Church.

There ya go, you were placed in a family and fellowship that has blessed you bro. God knits for sure, if you be blessed Tadster Im happy for you because there is great joy and comfort that comes from those abiding in Him.

I stay away from my freinds are better then your freinds sorta thing or my freinds can beat up your freinds, if you know what I mean?

The only reason I'm Catholic is because I am convinced it was my Holy Father's absolute desire. Now that I am Catholic I'm so happy to be home. It's awesome!

I never thought to word it that way Tad I am joyful with you in the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit and not being a "protestant" The only reason Im a protestant is cause thats what ~I automatically am~ if Im not in the membership books of the Catholic Church.

Though I aint too worried which books on earth Im written in, but penned into the book of His life. I just want to follow our Lord and worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. I never think my freinds "define" my walk in Christ but His Spirit and the fruits of His life becoming more and more evident in me...

Im definately waiting on some more of those precious things of His blessed Spirit

The problem with me is that I've discovered a whole new expression of Christianity and while I don't really understand you guys, I still want to know what makes you guys tick.

Discovering "us guys" huh? Tad, I know no one by these sorts of subtitles. To me, doing this is very strange. I myself dont think alike with all who are "called protestant" at all. I dont find my identity in any one save Christ our Lord. I might find comfort, joy and edification among any who has the Spirit of God but its not them who defines who I am. Very simply, I believe we are each individually known by our fruits.

Personal accountabilty to abide in Him (His Spirit) and His words in us. Christ makes me tick bro

There are some very passionate people around here and that's what I like about this place.

Nothing wrong with a little zeal save one without knowledge or without direction. Anyone's passion for the Lord indeed kindles my own, its a good thing provided it has a single focus on Him (in my eyes anyways).

What freaks me out is the that I do take you all in ernest, and so when I'm told to examine the scriptures, pray for guidance, or whatever..., I do, and when I do, I always get pointed back to the Catholic Church.

Well thats how it reads to you bro, thats what you see and thats where your led. I do not derive the same obviously (to either camp after names). When I read the scriptures I see them speaking of Jesus Christ (as He Himself said they do). The passion in my heart is not directed man-ward but God ward. The outworking of His life (in me) is others-ward out of obedience to Him. My desire is that I might know the living God. My desire is to lay hold of eternal life (which is to know Him). Thats possible in Christ (and Him in us) who reveals the Father to us.

Very simply, thats my only desire. Not the right "group" under the "right name" but to know Him (the one I love)

Very simple.... we all dont think alike.

So, Fie-yah, I appreciate how much you share yourself with this community.

Tadster, that your affectionate new name for me? I could grow into that you know... I think that comes creativity close to some of Sunlovers nicknames

I appreciate you in our Lord too my brother. You got a great sense of humour too If that counts for something lol

I'm always interested in what you have to say and what you have managed to find in the Word. It's a lot of fun. I guess as a young Christian I get kind of confused by the amount of teaching that I just can't make part of my heart.

Felt the same way, I pulled away from everyone, settled by my lonesome, I hope I say nothing more then the scriptures speak truthfully to Jesus Christ (who is the Truth) of them who was crucified once and for all. That the Spirit of the Lord is true and able to teach us all equally. I pray that theres no crooked agenda in me to speak of "myself" or to gain to myself but purely to our blessed Lord alone.

There are many opinions being expressed here; many of them opposed to what I have found to be the truth. It's tough getting them all sorted out sometimes.

Thats right there is, and thats why Im glad His words can be trusted, that Christ is the Truth and the Spirit that teaches us is no liar. I would let every man (myself included) and God always be true.

The only evidence I trust as the truth in any brother or sister that they are abiding in Him is the fruit of the Spirit manifested in them that comes simply from abiding in Him.

Very simple bro, no complicated things (or sumarsauts) in that. Im not into getting corrupted from the simplicity thats in Christ. He is pure and Holy.

Have a blessed day!

I'm going on vacation!!!

Tad

And you have a wonderful vacation Tad


Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[sunlover1]

I know you were kidding. It's a little hard discerning where people are coming from on the internet sometimes

YES lol.
That's why I made sure you knew

No, God won't let us be. Thanks be to God!

MGby!

I know and it's so awesome.
Sometimes though , to be honest,
my flesh wants SO bad to be naughty
and baaaad or fib or brag or get jealous
of those who are going on vacations. lol

Just a 'tad'

So yeah, definitely praise GOD who is
able!!!

 

[BigNorsk]

Hey Marv,

Thanks for your post. As usual, it was concise, candid and to the point.



If this is all true, why do Lutheran ministers still wear priestly vestments?

Thanks again,

Tad

Not all do. It is an area of adiaphora. Wearing specific clothes is neither commanded nor forbidden in the Bible. They can be helpful in avoiding distractions in which case they are good or they can become an end in themselves in which case they should be removed.

The Lutheran reformers did not just throw out everything. They threw out that which was contrary to the Word of God. Many things that were not commanded by the Word of God were basically retained because they were useful.

However, if it was being taught that such things were necessary or gave justification in some way, or conflicted with scripture, then they need to be removed.

Since not all Lutherans have the same history, you see many who still basically retain garments and others who have stopped using them. Somewhat like you see many Lutheran churches still have the basic floor plan that was common in churches at the time of the reformation but others that have changed it.

Marv

 

[BigNorsk]

Hmm - good point. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of teaching. Why would you need a seminary if you believe that everyone who has the Holy Spirit is basically taught by Him (or by yourself - depending on your view)? Any type of academic setting would be by default "teachings of men".

You can teach someone forever, and without the Holy Spirit, he will never grasp scripture, it will always be closed to him.

That is not to say that when someone receives the Holy Spirit that all truth is just supernaturally infused into him.

Such infusion of knowledge was basically taught by the Roman church at the time of the Reformation. It was rejected by the Reformers, but quickly made a reappearance in at least some of the Anabaptists. You can see individuals from many denominations make such a claim today but it would only be common in certain denominations.

What you always see wherever it is claimed is doctrine contrary to scripture and that scripture as the sole rule and norm is denied.

I an academic setting, if it teaches the teachings of men as God's truth, then it is not a Christian institute, but rather an mission of a false religion, whatever the name may be on the door.

The purpose of a seminary is not to pass on the teachings of man but to educate people in the Word of God.

Marv

 

[dcyates]

I don't think we need them either. The training of the saints should be done in the Church.

Maybe, but it's simply not happening. Realistically, you cannot learn in a half-hour Sunday School class, a 20 minute sermon and an hour-long Bible study what can be learned in seminary. And that's talking only about those few Christians that would attend such meetings on a weekly basis. I have a Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall down the street from me and its parking lot is absolutely packed to overflowing on a nightly basis! Meanwhile, I can drive by any number of evangelical churches during the same trip and see, maybe, only a few cars at a time. Which is probably why the average JW is able to, as I've heard the Bible Answerman Hank Hannegraff say, "turn the average Christian into a theological pretzel" in no time flat.

Survey after survey has showed that the average adult church attendee cannot name even half of Jesus' 12 apostles (and many of those that could name half also wanted to include Mark and Luke among them). A majority of those asked couldn't name all 10 commandments! Nearly one in four couldn't even name all four evangelists!

Need I add that these are hardly seminary-level questions.

 

[dcyates]

All believers are priests, a minister is no more a priest than any other believer, seminary has nothing to do with priesthood. It seems to me you are confusing being a minister, a servant, with being a priest. Maybe that is due to the Roman Catholic mistake of recreating the Old Testament Levitical priesthood which has priests as just one group of God's people, and not the New Testament priesthood in which Jesus is the high priest and all believers are his priests?

While it is true that all believers are priests, not nearly enough believers carry out their priestly duties. Indeed, I doubt that if you asked what the duties of a priest are, many would not be able to answer.

The Roman Catholics have the right idea in that their priesthood is supposed to symbolize that all believers are priests. Just as all of Israel was supposed to be a "kingdom of priests" yet they also had a divinely-ordained priestly caste; that being the Levites as you've mentioned.

Us Protestants should have come to realize by now that there are times when, if you do away with the symbols, you end up eventually losing what it was that those symbols were supposed to stand for as well.

 

[dcyates]

Okay. If all you need is the Bible with no outside help from other learned, seminary-trained people, what does this say?

בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
והארץ היתה תהו ובהו וחשׁך על־פני תהום ורוח אלהים מרחפת על־פני המים׃
ויאמר אלהים יהי אור ויהי־אור׃
וירא אלהים את־האור כי־טוב ויבדל אלהים בין האור ובין החשׁך׃
ויקרא אלהים לאור יום ולחשׁך קרא לילה ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום אחד׃​

If you can't, then you're relying on the education, training and teaching of others.​

No I am relying on the Holy Spirit guiding others to translate those words correctly. Also when they haven’t done so, and the Holy Spirit wants me to know it, he tells me.

Well, I can guarantee you that those people you're relying on to translate those words correctly on your behalf were not themselves relying solely on the Holy Spirit to enable them to translate. I can assure you they were educated in some sort of divinity school/seminary.

Moreover, it's evident that simply having a Bible translated into your own language is, while vitally important, not enough. In fact, in its own way, it's harmful. Because it too easily leads you to believe that these people in the Bible were very much like ourselves. The fact of the matter is, we need to constantly bear in mind that these people lived thousands of years ago, half a world away from us, and in a culture totally alien to ours. They simply did not see the world and themselves in the same way we see our world and ourselves.

 

[Giver]

Well, I can guarantee you that those people you're relying on to translate those words correctly on your behalf were not themselves relying solely on the Holy Spirit to enable them to translate. I can assure you they were educated in some sort of divinity school/seminary.

Moreover, it's evident that simply having a Bible translated into your own language is, while vitally important, not enough. In fact, in its own way, it's harmful. Because it too easily leads you to believe that these people in the Bible were very much like ourselves. The fact of the matter is, we need to constantly bear in mind that these people lived thousands of years ago, half a world away from us, and in a culture totally alien to ours. They simply did not see the world and themselves in the same way we see our world and ourselves.

I believe my teacher is well aware of what you are saying. Now I am also sure he takes everything into consideration when he shares with me.

By the way when did the church start sending people to the seminary to become ministers? What do you think happened all the years before that? Also from what I read about St. Francis of Assisi, he was very apposed to men being sent to seminaries.

 

[carlos123]

Hi dcyates

Maybe, but it's simply not happening. Realistically, you cannot learn in a half-hour Sunday School class, a 20 minute sermon and an hour-long Bible study what can be learned in seminary. And that's talking only about those few Christians that would attend such meetings on a weekly basis. I have a Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall down the street from me and its parking lot is absolutely packed to overflowing on a nightly basis! Meanwhile, I can drive by any number of evangelical churches during the same trip and see, maybe, only a few cars at a time. Which is probably why the average JW is able to, as I've heard the Bible Answerman Hank Hannegraff say, "turn the average Christian into a theological pretzel" in no time flat.

Survey after survey has showed that the average adult church attendee cannot name even half of Jesus' 12 apostles (and many of those that could name half also wanted to include Mark and Luke among them). A majority of those asked couldn't name all 10 commandments! Nearly one in four couldn't even name all four evangelists!

Need I add that these are hardly seminary-level questions.

May I suggest that rather than all those who are serious about relationship to God having to go to seminary to learn about things that are needful to know, that what the Church needs is men and women who will preach discipleship as Jesus preached it? And just as importantly live it.

The problem is not in the overall lack of knowledge but rather the overall lack of willingness to follow the Lord whatever the cost.

The churches are absolutely full of intellectual "Christians". That is, people who give lip service to Jesus Christ but whose faith is little more than an intellectual acknowledgement of certain things as being true. Few follow Christ. Most follow the particular church they are attending.

If the teaching that should be happening is not happening we must ask ourselves why not? And having prayerfully and with willing hearts sought the Lord for an answer we must set out to fix what is wrong in the church rather than continue to rely on a para-church institution like a seminary to make up for any lack in the church.

The best teaching that I can think of is that which happens when the teacher is connected to the learner (disciple) by an intimate and daily relationship which models what is taught. Just as Jesus did with his disciples.

We need to get back to this model of teaching and get away from that which we tend to have today where those doing the teaching have almost no relationship, if any at all, with those being taught.

Today we do not teach character. We teach head knowledge. Head knowledge by itself means absolutely nothing in the Kingdom of God if it does not result in the one having that head knowledge becoming more godly in character. More benevolent toward his fellow man. More reliant through that knowledge on the God of all wisdom. And more able through that knowledge to more appropriately love and serve others as God would do in our place.

Carlos