You know I just wish that I could sit and listen to someone, somewhere who could share (not teach) with me about how God is real to them every day. How they see Him provide for them. Take care of them in tough circumstances. How he comforts their hearts. Reproves them when necessary. How He comes to them in the still hours of the night and speaks softly into their ears about something He wants to say to them.
You know what I mean?
The real deal. Not just intellectual acknowledgement of certain biblical truths but a real relationship with a real being...God our Father.
Most teachings at church are on the intellectual side of things. We need that yes, but I want to also hear about how real God is in people's lives.
That kind of reality can't be taught in seminaries. It doesn't happen overnight. It involves relationship with Him every day, in and out. Through the rough times and the good.
Seminary or not, I would travel an hour each way to go and get with Christians like that. Every day. Anytime. If I could at all do so. Alas they are in shorter supply than gold on the ground it would seem.
Carlos
Okay. If all you need is the Bible with no outside help from other learned, seminary-trained people, what does this say?I personally think that; not only are seminaries not necessary, but are in most cases dangerous to a person’s spiritual health.
After a person has been brought to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, by the Christians preachers, teachers, pastors, and have been given the Holy Spirit it is no longer necessary to be taught by man, right?
Did Paul go to a seminary? Did man teach Paul? Doesn’t every Christian have the same Holy Spirit given to them as Paul had given to him?
(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
(John 16:13) “But when the Spirit of truth comes he will lead you to the complete truth, since he will not be speaking as from himself but will say only what he has learnt; and he will tell you of the things to come.”
(1 Corinthians 1:19-21) “As scripture says: I shall destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nothing all the learning of the learned. Where are the philosophers now? Where are the scribes? Where are any of our thinkers today? Do you see now how God has shown up the foolishness of human wisdom? If it was God’s wisdom that human wisdom should not know God, it was because God wanted to save those who have faith through the foolishness of the message that we preach.”
(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ Who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”
But at the same time, Fireinfolding, I doubt there's a medical school in existence that hasn't produced a bad doctor at one time or another, yet I'd be willing to wager you would still want the physician you were seeing to have graduated from medical school. Right?My first pastor went to school (ofcourse) but that man knew not a thing, who passes out these degrees?
Maybe they benefit some but if you heard some of the lame brain things I heard, you'd conclude his education did him no good. It would do those under him no good either. If it is a commanded thing (from tradition) or something(?) I dont know. Id be questioning those who are mandating this sort of education I suppose. I dont know or understand the ins and outs of it, so Im speaking out of my own ignorance. But if someone loves the Lord and desires to serve Him, I betcha (even know) God is big enough to teach them. Afterall, thats the NC
Though, the creature being subject to vanity might come into play here
Peace
Fireinfolding
It is so sad that one cant see the difference between learning physical and spiritual knowledge. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14) Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.But at the same time, Fireinfolding, I doubt there's a medical school in existence that hasn't produced a bad doctor at one time or another, yet I'd be willing to wager you would still want the physician you were seeing to have graduated from medical school. Right?
No I am relying on the Holy Spirit guiding others to translate those words correctly. Also when they havent done so, and the Holy Spirit wants me to know it, he tells me.Okay. If all you need is the Bible with no outside help from other learned, seminary-trained people, what does this say?
בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
והארץ היתה תהו ובהו וחשׁך על־פני תהום ורוח אלהים מרחפת על־פני המים׃
ויאמר אלהים יהי אור ויהי־אור׃
וירא אלהים את־האור כי־טוב ויבדל אלהים בין האור ובין החשׁך׃
ויקרא אלהים לאור יום ולחשׁך קרא לילה ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום אחד׃
If you can't, then you're relying on the education, training and teaching of others.
I personally think that; not only are seminaries not necessary, but are in most cases dangerous to a person’s spiritual health.
After a person has been brought to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, by the Christians preachers, teachers, pastors, and have been given the Holy Spirit it is no longer necessary to be taught by man, right?
Tadster, why you worrying bout what others think?
Heck bro, I stay home not doing what either Catholics or protestants do. I make no disctintions save by the fruit in anothers life in the Lord. Shouldnt that be the same everywhere? Not all those thrown into the protestant pile landed there from the original protest (that split the two) yet not all walk in the same like manner.
Why be 100% Catholic or protestant? Why not be 100% in your heart to be led of the Spirit and leave it at that?
Go wherever you feel comforted and edified. Be that in a building wherein those call themselves "catholic" or in a building among those that call themselves (by the numberous names) found under protestism?
Id not want to lead someone to being a protestant (under whichever name that might be) but Christ.
Dont want no other name on my ~forehead~ but His Fathers if you know what I mean?
Peace
Fireinfolding
All believers are priests, a minister is no more a priest than any other believer, seminary has nothing to do with priesthood. It seems to me you are confusing being a minister, a servant, with being a priest. Maybe that is due to the Roman Catholic mistake of recreating the Old Testament Levitical priesthood which has priests as just one group of God's people, and not the New Testament priesthood in which Jesus is the high priest and all believers are his priests?
I'm going on vacation!!!
Tad
AWESome!
Hey tad, I was only playing earlier about
fishing for trouble.
Wanted to make sure you know that.
If you know me, you know I'm not
vindictive.
God wont let us be will he?
lol.
have a wonderful time.
sunlover
Good Morning Fie-yah,
On one of these upcoming days (I forgot to write down the date) five years ago, all by my lonesome, spurred only by the promptings of the Holy Spirit, I gave up and surrendered myself to the Lord. I had no idea what I was getting into at the time. So, I prayed to Jesus that I might come to know Him the way He wanted to be known. After that, it was all system go towards the Catholic Church.
The only reason I'm Catholic is because I am convinced it was my Holy Father's absolute desire. Now that I am Catholic I'm so happy to be home. It's awesome!
The problem with me is that I've discovered a whole new expression of Christianity and while I don't really understand you guys, I still want to know what makes you guys tick.
There are some very passionate people around here and that's what I like about this place.
What freaks me out is the that I do take you all in ernest, and so when I'm told to examine the scriptures, pray for guidance, or whatever..., I do, and when I do, I always get pointed back to the Catholic Church.
So, Fie-yah, I appreciate how much you share yourself with this community.
I'm always interested in what you have to say and what you have managed to find in the Word. It's a lot of fun. I guess as a young Christian I get kind of confused by the amount of teaching that I just can't make part of my heart.
There are many opinions being expressed here; many of them opposed to what I have found to be the truth. It's tough getting them all sorted out sometimes.
Have a blessed day!
I'm going on vacation!!!
Tad
YES lol.I know you were kidding. It's a little hard discerning where people are coming from on the internet sometimes
I know and it's so awesome.No, God won't let us be. Thanks be to God!
MGby!
Hey Marv,
Thanks for your post. As usual, it was concise, candid and to the point.
If this is all true, why do Lutheran ministers still wear priestly vestments?
Thanks again,
Tad
Hmm - good point. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of teaching. Why would you need a seminary if you believe that everyone who has the Holy Spirit is basically taught by Him (or by yourself - depending on your view)? Any type of academic setting would be by default "teachings of men".
Maybe, but it's simply not happening. Realistically, you cannot learn in a half-hour Sunday School class, a 20 minute sermon and an hour-long Bible study what can be learned in seminary. And that's talking only about those few Christians that would attend such meetings on a weekly basis. I have a Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall down the street from me and its parking lot is absolutely packed to overflowing on a nightly basis! Meanwhile, I can drive by any number of evangelical churches during the same trip and see, maybe, only a few cars at a time. Which is probably why the average JW is able to, as I've heard the Bible Answerman Hank Hannegraff say, "turn the average Christian into a theological pretzel" in no time flat.I don't think we need them either. The training of the saints should be done in the Church.
While it is true that all believers are priests, not nearly enough believers carry out their priestly duties. Indeed, I doubt that if you asked what the duties of a priest are, many would not be able to answer.All believers are priests, a minister is no more a priest than any other believer, seminary has nothing to do with priesthood. It seems to me you are confusing being a minister, a servant, with being a priest. Maybe that is due to the Roman Catholic mistake of recreating the Old Testament Levitical priesthood which has priests as just one group of God's people, and not the New Testament priesthood in which Jesus is the high priest and all believers are his priests?
dcyates said:Okay. If all you need is the Bible with no outside help from other learned, seminary-trained people, what does this say?
בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
והארץ היתה תהו ובהו וחשׁך על־פני תהום ורוח אלהים מרחפת על־פני המים׃
ויאמר אלהים יהי אור ויהי־אור׃
וירא אלהים את־האור כי־טוב ויבדל אלהים בין האור ובין החשׁך׃
ויקרא אלהים לאור יום ולחשׁך קרא לילה ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום אחד׃
If you can't, then you're relying on the education, training and teaching of others.
Well, I can guarantee you that those people you're relying on to translate those words correctly on your behalf were not themselves relying solely on the Holy Spirit to enable them to translate. I can assure you they were educated in some sort of divinity school/seminary.No I am relying on the Holy Spirit guiding others to translate those words correctly. Also when they haven’t done so, and the Holy Spirit wants me to know it, he tells me.
I believe my teacher is well aware of what you are saying. Now I am also sure he takes everything into consideration when he shares with me.Well, I can guarantee you that those people you're relying on to translate those words correctly on your behalf were not themselves relying solely on the Holy Spirit to enable them to translate. I can assure you they were educated in some sort of divinity school/seminary.
Moreover, it's evident that simply having a Bible translated into your own language is, while vitally important, not enough. In fact, in its own way, it's harmful. Because it too easily leads you to believe that these people in the Bible were very much like ourselves. The fact of the matter is, we need to constantly bear in mind that these people lived thousands of years ago, half a world away from us, and in a culture totally alien to ours. They simply did not see the world and themselves in the same way we see our world and ourselves.
Maybe, but it's simply not happening. Realistically, you cannot learn in a half-hour Sunday School class, a 20 minute sermon and an hour-long Bible study what can be learned in seminary. And that's talking only about those few Christians that would attend such meetings on a weekly basis. I have a Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall down the street from me and its parking lot is absolutely packed to overflowing on a nightly basis! Meanwhile, I can drive by any number of evangelical churches during the same trip and see, maybe, only a few cars at a time. Which is probably why the average JW is able to, as I've heard the Bible Answerman Hank Hannegraff say, "turn the average Christian into a theological pretzel" in no time flat.
Survey after survey has showed that the average adult church attendee cannot name even half of Jesus' 12 apostles (and many of those that could name half also wanted to include Mark and Luke among them). A majority of those asked couldn't name all 10 commandments! Nearly one in four couldn't even name all four evangelists!
Need I add that these are hardly seminary-level questions.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?