Are "certain" video games unholy?

[SymphonicaX]

I've been researching into whether video games are holy and honorable for the disciple of Christ to play. I've seen a lot of new arguments against playing certain games.

The games I want to talk about are mainly violent, sexual, and/or games that involve magic or witchcraft, or any sin from the list of sins mentioned in the bible, whether it's in a reality or fantasy game.

For example:

Grand Theft Auto:
- immoral behavior
- murdering for fun
- crime mafias
- stealing cars
- bad language

Oblivion:
- magic, fictional witchcraft
- stealing
- murdering for fun

Super Mario:
- killing the bad guys

Now here is an argument from the side that is against these type of video games:

they are unfit for disciples because they involve playing around with sinful activities such as murder, stealing, witchcraft, etc., and it's equivalent to lusting in Matt 5:27-29.

What is the difference between playing around with lustful thoughts in your mind for entertainment, and playing around with witchcraft type magic for entertainment, and playing around with violence for entertainment?

Now an argument from the side that accepts games:

They are ok as long as you can separate fantasy from reality.

Now what do you all think? can you please backup your opinions with biblical principles?

 

[notmyown123]

Hard to say. Im an avid gamer myself. First question I would ask is how much time you spend on the game... GTA had a lot of vulgar and unecessary garbage in it. Oblivion does have witchcraft including necromancy in it... but I really dont believe that pushing a button on a controller could be considered practicing witchcraft... unless maybe if you were RP'ing... but that creeps me out... Pray about it... you might not get a direct answer telling you what games are good and which are bad... but pray that God would make you more sensetive to the things that are against Him

o.0 and as far as Oblivion goes... you can choose to use witchcraft, to steal, or to kill for fun... but you dont have to do any of these... I played as a warrior =)

 

[NavyGuy7]

I'd say games like GTA and the Darkness (especially that last one) go too far. In the Darkness (I've read the reviews) apparently your main character is the slave of a demon, and of course has demonic powers. THAT is going too far, in my opinion. WAY too far.

 

[david_x]

Super Mario:
- killing the bad guys

You have to be kidding. They are not even human. Seriously, don't take this the wrong way, but grow up.

 

[Digit]

I've been researching into whether video games are holy and honorable for the disciple of Christ to play. I've seen a lot of new arguments against playing certain games.

Heya SymphonicaX,

This is something I've been thinking on and about for quite some time, mainly because I work as a designer in the games industry and I often wonder if the games I help make are really contributing to health enjoyment.

The games I want to talk about are mainly violent, sexual, and/or games that involve magic or witchcraft, or any sin from the list of sins mentioned in the bible, whether it's in a reality or fantasy game.

I think this is a good way to approach it, and I would also add in that we need to look at what in the game we find entertaining. Lets take GTA as your example, as I have lots to say on that as I believe it's a red-herring in the world of violent videogames.

For example:

Grand Theft Auto:
- immoral behavior
- murdering for fun
- crime mafias
- stealing cars
- bad language

Right, GTA. I loved GTA and played it rigorously until I finished it. It was great fun. First of all, a quick word, is that I wish more games were like GTA. In fact, we should be so lucky to have games that contain a real justice system. Think about it in GTA. You break the law, and someone sees you, the police come after you. You evade the police, more police come after you. You kill someone, lots of police come after you and sometimes the black FBI cars. You can keep going, breaking the law, killing, stealing, and avoiding arrest, and eventually the army will come after, police choppers and so many police cars and armoured vans you normally end up arrested. Is it just me, or does that convey a clear message of, "You break the law, there is a consequence." There are precious few games that have anything near this. Call of Juarez (pronouced wa-rez) has a game rule that stipulates you cannot kill any innocent people or harm any animals. That's fantastic! Why don't more games have this? The problem as I see it, is when people take something in GTA, like the prostitute mechanic, rip it out of context and show it as the sole source of enjoyment.

Finding a hooker in GTA, and refilling your stamina bar with her is about as much fun as watching paint dry. The novelty lasts for about 60 seconds, and I think we can safely say there isn't anyone who actually plays GTA to simply find hookers and have sex with them ingame. It's not fun, or cosmetically pleasing in any way.

The most fun I had in GTA was grabbing a cap, playing some music (the PC version linked to your MP3 director) and driving around, exploring and looking for secret packages.

Oblivion:
- magic, fictional witchcraft
- stealing
- murdering for fun.

How do you play Oblivion, do you murder and kill for fun? I don't. I helped everyone I could find in that game, I chose the good outcome for all the quests, protected the innocent and was a beacon of righteousness.

I think this is important, as it's also how we play the games that affects if they are a good influence on us.

My big beef currently is with God of War. It has some amazing sequences in it, yet I feel it has some dangerous feedback too. There is one section in God of War 2, where you fight this guy, it's a boss fight. You pretty much destroy him, and stab him with your sword, lots of close up shorts of you severing parts off of him and skewing him, with screams and blood flying. The worst was yet to come, because when he was utterly defeated and (I thought) totally dead, you grab him and pull him over to a doorway. Then, you place his head between the door and the wall, and the circle button control pops up. Each time you press circle, Kronos (your character) slams the dorr on his head and he cries out. You are required to do this in order to proceed in the game. About 4 or 5 times until he is dead.

That to me is unhealthy, and I don't find it entertaining in any way. It is positively reinforcing violent behaviour, with each press of the "O" button. This is rewarded with violent images, gore and sfx issuing from the screen. I found it went too far, and oddly many of my non-believer friends when playing that part had a horrible look on their faces, they really didn't enjoy it. Afterwards they paused the game, and looked at me and said, "Was it just me, or was that wrong?" and sure enough, it is wrong.

Super Mario:
- killing the bad guys

Harmless fun in my opinion. And that brings us to:

What we find entertaining. Games like Manhunt I will not play. I don't find them entertaining - there is nothing enjoyable about stalking and murdering people in different ways, it glamourises the violence and there are no redeeming factors to it. It reinforces negative behaviour, with positive feedback and I believe that to be unhealthy. Games are very quickly shown to exhibit entertaining focuses. When it's on anything negative, I will stray from it. I won't play Diablo II, I find the content offensive, and the violence too overboard. I won't play Hellgate: London, apart from looking pretty crappy to be honest, I also find the setting and violence offensive. I have no issues with GTA as it offers far, far more than just sex with hookers and I have no issues with RPGs that contain magic and fantasy worlds, as they allows you to impact the world and reveal your character, to play a role.

I think as long as we can differentiate between these lines, then we can make sound decisions as to what games are harmful to us, which ones take things too far and what games we can enjoy for sound reasons.

Cheers!
Digit

 

[SymphonicaX]

I understand you guys don't feel affected by these games, neither do I.

My point was to argue about the different points brought up that relate to the games.

I really want to know what you guys think of the scriptures, not our opinions.

1) Matthew 5:27-29 talks about lusting being offensive for the Christian. What difference is playing a video game with lots of killing, and playing a video game with sexual immorality?. Would you play a game that has sexual immorality all over the place, such as a porn game for pure entertainment?

2) If God condemns murder, then why should we participate in a fantasy world that involves murdering people? Same with witchcraft? And again if God condemns lust and impurity, and we often do not participate in pornography, then what difference is it if we participate in violent video games and porn video games?

 

[GoodNewsJim]

Beware of wicked fantasies because they come from the heart. The church has been on the mark by reviewing media before advising or warning people against it. I'm writing this section because I believe I have insight into this area. Before I explain anything further I'll say what is not safe for kids is generally not recommended for adults either. Horror movies are at the top of things people should not watch. Horror movies generally portray the killer as a hero, and the people he kills as deserving in some sick and twisted reason. When watching a movie, a viewer tends to side with the main hero and hopes the best for him, and in some respects envisions oneself in the role.

Now video games are no exception from the movie's need to be reviewed. The problem with a video game is that no two people have the same game and can experience wildly differing view points. A movie is linear and after you've seen it, everything is the same for the next person. A video game can't generally be fully explored on what you can do. The best thing you can do is read up on a video game on the internet to find some of the more vile acts that could happen.


In Grand Theft Auto:Vice City, you can have sex with a prostitute, then kill her to take your money back. That is something that should not be seen by kids or adults. You can run people over with wild abandon too. Once I understood the idea of wicked fantasy, I destroyed my media containing it. I really enjoyed playing Vice City, but I realized I liked it out of wicked fantasy: doing evil acts for the simple fact that the police, FBI, and Army couldn't stop me. I never bought Grand Theft Auto:San Andreas because I knew it would be more evil acts, and underground drug connections. I'm not about to bring my political ideals about drugs into a book that's supposed to be about God, but I have distain for gangs who supply drugs. For some people, the mafia and gangs has some element of cool where its fun to play on a video game, but because of the risk of life or jailtime, it is not something to go for real. What I am bringing up in wicked fantasies is: if its not something of moral wholesomeness that glorifies God, you shouldn't be doing it for fantasy or for real.


Neither Congress nor the ESRB(Entertainment Software Ratings Board) has a clue. In Grand Theft Auto:San Andreas you can unlock a sex game with hacks you need to use a PC and only specialized hackers can perform it. Once Congress heard about this sex game, they took action. But the game itself glorifies violence, drug trafficing, and you can beat people up with profane items. It is strange to most people why congress cracked down on the sex game when far worse elements of criminality and moral decay were present in the game without requiring game hacks. The ESRB may rate a game, but when it comes into a store, only rare store managers will deny a kid a video game. We can't count on Congress or the ESRB to police video games for a Christian home.


Between most games not having a high level of challenge and fun, combined with looking out for games that induce wicked fantasies, there isn't a whole lot to select from in video games. I've played video games all my life, and even ranked #1 in the world in a few games. I really know where I'm coming from in video games. Video games show no signs of stopping their descent into evil and graphic violence. Its a natural progression. First there were games where you had to beat up some vile and evil boss. Then there were the games where you'd team up with something evil turned good, but still looked evil. Finally there are the games where your character is evil in word and deed. Because there are so few good video games, people play whatever is fun even if it isn't a good moral choice. It's just the nature of video games.


What parents have to look out for is if their children are latching on to drugs and drug culture, or violence and icons of violence. The hope is if you teach your kid about God early on, they'll be raised to make smart moral decisions. The problem is that instead of one moral decision, there are many tiny ones. Is it bad to play PacMan where you're out to eat dots and ghosts? One Congressional board rated it at 68% violent. Is it bad to play games where you shoot animals? Is it bad to play games where you shoot terrorists? Is it bad to play games where you are playing paintball, and shooting friends? Is it bad to play a military game where you're shooting 'the enemy'. Is it bad to play a game where you represent Germany in World War I or II? Is it bad to play as a special ops unit that assassinates people such as evil dictators? Is it bad to play as an assassin who's paid to kill random people? Is it bad to play a game where you play as a god? Is it bad to play a monster that destroys Tokyo? Of course its bad to play a video game where you just kill random people. Video games run the whole spectrum, from white to black. Now when a kid goes over his friend's house, the video game selection may get a bit shady or run into the black. No kid is going to drop one's friend because of said friend's video game collection. Instead that kid would be intrigued to play a new video game. And this is the problem. Adults barely have a conception of how bad video games can get. Kids have even less powers of evaluation, and instead like to experiment and try new things. Kids will just play the video game and go,"It's not real, I wouldn't murder in real life."


Many gamers are over 18. Just because you're over 18 does not mean the video game should be played. Just like pornography comes off as adult entertainment, the video game industry pulls the same thing. A person who considers himself a Christian should really put thought into what games he owns. I personally try and stay away from games where fake gods are referenced. I try and stay away from games where you can make friends with evil characters. Now I admit that the games are different levels of bad, and I've played some bad ones in my time like the Mortal Kombat series. I feel I am wiser now and can look out for games that have you playing a wicked fantasy. I hope you put some thought into it too. Thanks for reading.

 

[Digit]

I understand you guys don't feel affected by these games, neither do I.

It depends which games, as I said some games I won't play, like God of War 2, because I feel it does affect us.

I really want to know what you guys think of the scriptures, not our opinions.

1) Matthew 5:27-29 talks about lusting being offensive for the Christian. What difference is playing a video game with lots of killing, and playing a video game with sexual immorality?. Would you play a game that has sexual immorality all over the place, such as a porn game for pure entertainment?

Again, this is what I addressed. It depends on our motives for playing these games. Do you play GTA and continually grab hookers and have sex with them over and over to get your entertainment, or do you like other things about it? Do you play Manhunt because you enjoy seeing the effect an axe has when applied at high speed to someone elses head? Do you not enjoy Mario as much, because there is no blood in it? What about Pacman, is that spiritual warfare? Really, I feel things are being taken to extremes when we think this way. It is afterall, about our morals and motives. God judges the heart, and we are told to speak with actions rather than words. So take action, and move away from games with impure morals and motives as the core component of their entertainment. GTA has a great deal more to offer, much of which is really enjoyable and clean.

2) If God condemns murder, then why should we participate in a fantasy world that involves murdering people? Same with witchcraft? And again if God condemns lust and impurity, and we often do not participate in pornography, then what difference is it if we participate in violent video games and porn video games?

Because pornography has lust as it's core component, it is only about that and it is directly created to spark off that desire in us in a way that damages us and those around us. Games are mutlifaceted, they have many areas and sometimes all of those areas are focussed on sinful things. I won't play anything like that. Anything that when I play it prompts a question, "Wait, is this right?" I will move away from. That's the reaction that God of War 2 invoked in me, and I had to ask myself why I find that entertaining? I decided I truly did not, and it was a morbid and impure desire in me that told me, "No it's ok, go for it.". Just as I won't watch movies like The Saw because I don't understand why I should feel entertained by them - why is someone elses suffering entertaining? Yet when you look at films like Enemy at the Gates, you can look past that to the truly heroic hearts of those people, the incredible story they tell and the roles they played. See what I am saying? Despite the fact they contain violence and murder?

It's more than just, "This game is evil because it has X in it." we need to assess each and look at what we find entertaining in them, only then can we truly make a good decision. Scripture gives us our foundation for our decisions, and we should adhere to it as we do in all else.

I find that people often don't understand why they are being entertained, and as such, they cannot comprehend what it is that is wrong about their entertainment. Please be aware there is a very real distinction between this and real life sins. That is, it doesn't matter "why" when you kill someone in real life, it's sin of the clearest order. But in matters of imagined and mental actions, the why is very important in my opinion.

Just as we can look at a women, when married, and find her attractive, it's the why which tempts sinful behaviour . Why do we find her attractive? Because we lust for sexual pleasure with a beautiful women, or because she is beautiful and fair to the eye? One path leads to sin, one does not.

Cheers,
Digit

 

[Dannager]

It's a game. It's not real. Enjoy.

 

[SymphonicaX]

Again, this is what I addressed. It depends on our motives for playing these games. Do you play GTA and continually grab hookers and have sex with them over and over to get your entertainment, or do you like other things about it? Do you play Manhunt because you enjoy seeing the effect an axe has when applied at high speed to someone elses head? Do you not enjoy Mario as much, because there is no blood in it? What about Pacman, is that spiritual warfare? Really, I feel things are being taken to extremes when we think this way. It is afterall, about our morals and motives. God judges the heart, and we are told to speak with actions rather than words. So take action, and move away from games with impure morals and motives as the core component of their entertainment. GTA has a great deal more to offer, much of which is really enjoyable and clean.

I had played GTA because of it's freeform gameplay. But it involves crime syndicates, and how can we find any good in that?

Because pornography has lust as it's core component, it is only about that and it is directly created to spark off that desire in us in a way that damages us and those around us. Games are mutlifaceted, they have many areas and sometimes all of those areas are focussed on sinful things. I won't play anything like that. Anything that when I play it prompts a question, "Wait, is this right?" I will move away from. That's the reaction that God of War 2 invoked in me, and I had to ask myself why I find that entertaining? I decided I truly did not, and it was a morbid and impure desire in me that told me, "No it's ok, go for it.". Just as I won't watch movies like The Saw because I don't understand why I should feel entertained by them - why is someone elses suffering entertaining? Yet when you look at films like Enemy at the Gates, you can look past that to the truly heroic hearts of those people, the incredible story they tell and the roles they played. See what I am saying? Despite the fact they contain violence and murder?

But how is it right to play a game such as Battlefield 2 where you are killing the opposition to gain victory? There is no good in killing our enemies. God calls us to love our enemies, so why do we play a game that glorifies killing the enemies?

What if there was a game called porn journey or something, where you were a pornstar and had to go around doing immoral acts to win the game? You wouldn't play it right? Because you feel it's immoral. But what's the difference between that and the violent games that make you win the game by killing your way to victory? They are both fantasies. Our intent in porn is to gratify ourselves which is sinful. What is our intent in a game such as Battlefield 2? To win, and how do we do that? By killing the enemies. But why would winning by sinning be any better morally than porn?

It's more than just, "This game is evil because it has X in it." we need to assess each and look at what we find entertaining in them, only then can we truly make a good decision. Scripture gives us our foundation for our decisions, and we should adhere to it as we do in all else.

I find that people often don't understand why they are being entertained, and as such, they cannot comprehend what it is that is wrong about their entertainment. Please be aware there is a very real distinction between this and real life sins. That is, it doesn't matter "why" when you kill someone in real life, it's sin of the clearest order. But in matters of imagined and mental actions, the why is very important in my opinion.

Just as we can look at a women, when married, and find her attractive, it's the why which tempts sinful behaviour . Why do we find her attractive? Because we lust for sexual pleasure with a beautiful women, or because she is beautiful and fair to the eye? One path leads to sin, one does not.

Cheers,
Digit

I still don't understand why it's acceptable to involve ourselves in the sinful elements of violence and witchcraft in a video game, when we can't involve ourselves in pornographic elements. How do we bypass this?

 

[Dannager]

I had played GTA because of it's freeform gameplay. But it involves crime syndicates, and how can we find any good in that?

You don't need to find good in something in order to do it without sinning. You just need to not be sinning. There's nothing sinful about playing a video game, regardless of content, because it's not real.

But how is it right to play a game such as Battlefield 2 where you are killing the opposition to gain victory? There is no good in killing our enemies. God calls us to love our enemies, so why do we play a game that glorifies killing the enemies?

Because it's fun, and it's not real, so there isn't anything wrong with it from a spiritual perspective.

What if there was a game called porn journey or something, where you were a pornstar and had to go around doing immoral acts to win the game? You wouldn't play it right? Because you feel it's immoral. But what's the difference between that and the violent games that make you win the game by killing your way to victory? They are both fantasies. Our intent in porn is to gratify ourselves which is sinful.

Okay, what? That's nonsense. Gratifying ourselves is sinful? Goodness, I don't ever want to see you receiving a back scratch again, then. The intent of a back scratch is to gratify yourself, and according to you self-gratification is sinful.

What is our intent in a game such as Battlefield 2? To win, and how do we do that? By killing the enemies. But why would winning by sinning be any better morally than porn?

It wouldn't be. But it's not sinning, because it isn't real.

I still don't understand why it's acceptable to involve ourselves in the sinful elements of violence and witchcraft in a video game, when we can't involve ourselves in pornographic elements. How do we bypass this?

I imagine that viewing the pornographic elements as sinful is the first thing you need to get rid of.

 

[BloodwashedPilgrim]

When did the decision that all violence is sinful get made? You want Scriptural support, but that argument is purely unBiblical. Things like war are certainly not condemned in Scripture. God used war several times in Scripture to purge and/or judge evil. And as far as New Testament goes the power of the sword still lays in the hands of the government.

Romans 13:1-7
"Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resisits authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rules are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practivces evil. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor."

"Sword," "avenger," and "wrath;" all these words sure make it seem like there might be some punishment, but not only punishment, violence executed by the government and that such action is established and ordained by God. Sorry for not quoting a bunch of Old Testament references where God seems to not only condone, but use war; but I would like to assume that most believers realize that, but I could be very wrong for making such an assumption. If so, let me know and I'll amass some references.

I think the concept that it comes to the heart matters most, but the concept that it is always wrong to kill or "commit acts of violence" cannot Scripturally be supported, quite the opposite, Scripture refutes it.

Genesis 9:6
"Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man."

So, if you're saying that video games that portray past wars are wrong because the evoke thoughts of "sinful" killings I would have to say Scripture disagrees with such conception.

Much love in Christ.

 

[SymphonicaX]

You don't need to find good in something in order to do it without sinning. You just need to not be sinning. There's nothing sinful about playing a video game, regardless of content, because it's not real.
Because it's fun, and it's not real, so there isn't anything wrong with it from a spiritual perspective.

Ok before I go on, I just want to state that I am undecided right now on whether there is any harm in video games or not, I'm just siding with a skeptical side for now, so please don't take me the wrong way.

Thinking about naked girls and lusting about them is not real either, but yet it's condemned by Jesus is Matt 5:27-29. What makes thinking about violence in video games not as bad?

Okay, what? That's nonsense. Gratifying ourselves is sinful? Goodness, I don't ever want to see you receiving a back scratch again, then. The intent of a back scratch is to gratify yourself, and according to you self-gratification is sinful.

What I meant is that gratifying yourself to sin is sinful, such as lust and pornography. So if we are gratifying ourselves with playing a fantasy game that involves witchcraft and violence which are sinful (by violence I mean murder), how and why is that any different?

It wouldn't be. But it's not sinning, because it isn't real.

porn in your mind isn't real either.

I imagine that viewing the pornographic elements as sinful is the first thing you need to get rid of.

I've been doing well with that. I just used porn as an example.

 

[SymphonicaX]

*please Delete*

 

[SymphonicaX]

When did the decision that all violence is sinful get made? You want Scriptural support, but that argument is purely unBiblical. Things like war are certainly not condemned in Scripture. God used war several times in Scripture to purge and/or judge evil. And as far as New Testament goes the power of the sword still lays in the hands of the government.

Romans 13:1-7
"Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resisits authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rules are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practivces evil. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor."

"Sword," "avenger," and "wrath;" all these words sure make it seem like there might be some punishment, but not only punishment, violence executed by the government and that such action is established and ordained by God. Sorry for not quoting a bunch of Old Testament references where God seems to not only condone, but use war; but I would like to assume that most believers realize that, but I could be very wrong for making such an assumption. If so, let me know and I'll amass some references.

I think the concept that it comes to the heart matters most, but the concept that it is always wrong to kill or "commit acts of violence" cannot Scripturally be supported, quite the opposite, Scripture refutes it.

Genesis 9:6
"Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man."

So, if you're saying that video games that portray past wars are wrong because the evoke thoughts of "sinful" killings I would have to say Scripture disagrees with such conception.

Much love in Christ.

I haven't found anything in the bible that says our wars are justified. The OT wars were there for both spiritual advice to us, and for God's promises to be successful. Everything has been fulfilled with Christ going on the cross for us and being resurrected, so I don't see why we would need anymore. In 1 Cor. 15:24-26, it talks about Christ coming back to destroy death and then we will be raised...and I believe that is all that is left for us, then we will be in everlasting life with God forever!

I don't believe the romans passage is talking about war being justified, I think it's talking about God's judgment call against those who do evil, that's what the sword refers to...and the sword often is referred to God's word (Eph 6:17), which also judges (Heb. 4:12), and Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1)...so it all relates...at least that's the way I see it. I could be wrong.

Now with these war games, the fun is where you kill each other for victory...what good is in that? I don't see anything morally acceptable in that. Now I am undecided on whether it's wrong or not because you and I know it's not real and we wouldn't go out and kill anyone for victory.

 

[Abufihamat]

Are certain video games unholy?

Certainly. Because the opposing phrase or word, "Holy", implies innocence, not corrupted, or "pure".

 

[BloodwashedPilgrim]

I haven't found anything in the bible that says our wars are justified. The OT wars were there for both spiritual advice to us, and for God's promises to be successful. Everything has been fulfilled with Christ going on the cross for us and being resurrected, so I don't see why we would need anymore. In 1 Cor. 15:24-26, it talks about Christ coming back to destroy death and then we will be raised...and I believe that is all that is left for us, then we will be in everlasting life with God forever!

I don't believe the romans passage is talking about war being justified, I think it's talking about God's judgment call against those who do evil, that's what the sword refers to...and the sword often is referred to God's word (Eph 6:17), which also judges (Heb. 4:12), and Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1)...so it all relates...at least that's the way I see it. I could be wrong.

Now with these war games, the fun is where you kill each other for victory...what good is in that? I don't see anything morally acceptable in that. Now I am undecided on whether it's wrong or not because you and I know it's not real and we wouldn't go out and kill anyone for victory.

Well, that is certainly a very interesting point. One which, honestly, I have not heard before. However, considering the context and the Greek word that is used, the passage certainly seems to imply war and/or capital punishment. Thank you for your wonderful thoughts though. I really appreciate your point of view and heart that desires truth.

Sorry, brother, I did not mean to derail your discussion from the original question. I don't think "holy" is the right word, but assuming what is meant by "unholy" is "sinful," I would say that some, but not all video games are sinful and that it depends upon your heart most of all. Sorry again.

Much love in Christ.

 

[Leah]

I believe there are games that are quite demonic for anyone to play, christian or not.

For example, about 2 1/2 years ago, I used to play Diablo II:Lord Of Destruction. I liked it very much but before long, I had nightmares (3 nights in a row, even) about that game, so I knew I had to get rid of it. I broke it to pieces, threw it in the trash and then took the trash out to the dumpster!

So yes, there are some games people really shouldn't play. Believe it or not, games like the one I used to play and others like it leave you wide open for the enemy to attack you. I'm living proof of that.


Btw, in Diablo II, there's the top boss monster named Baal. If you recall in the bible, there were those who worshipped Baal (a false god) and were condemned, by God, because of that.

 

[Jedi]

I haven't found anything in the bible that says our wars are justified.

Proverbs 31:8-9 instructs us to “speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves” and to “defend the rights of the poor and needy.” Often the only means by which we can do this is conflict, perhaps even war. Further still, it is difficult to condemn men for going to war and taking life when God commanded them to do so on numerous occasions. Killing and war, then, are not inherently sinful. If so, these things remain morally innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Now with these war games, the fun is where you kill each other for victory...what good is in that? I don't see anything morally acceptable in that.

What good is in that? Plenty. People like to be victorious, especially if they have to fight for that victory. It’s rewarding. Such games also reinforce the use of strategy, quick thinking, anticipating others’ moves, and team work. It also provides a field by which people can display genuine acts of courtesy, honor, and mercy by how the opponent is treated.

Example: I play a massive online multiplayer called the “World of Warcraft” alongside 8 million other gamers. You can quest in the game with computer generated characters, team up with other players to accomplish quests, or fight and “kill” other players. I spend most of my time fighting others players and I’m very good at what I do. I find the experience fun, as I’m fighting against other players who think and develop strategy on their own instead of mindless computer-generated characters. Yet when I’ve come to take control of a particular area and I see some enemy players I can easily crush, I display mercy. Instead of blowing them away on the spot (which I’m completely entitled to), I try to shoo them away, giving them a chance to flee.

Further still, to my knowledge, no one has ever truly “killed” anyone in a video game. It’s not real. What really happens when I “kill” someone in my game is they have to walk as a ghost back to their body. Death, in the video game world, lasts 30 seconds. What has happened is not any sort of “killing,” but a competition between two players, the loser having to be inconvenienced for 30 seconds. It doesn’t get much more mild than that but the feeling of competition, victory, and defeat are real enough to stimulate the player.

Only if such video games become addictive so that there are adverse consequences in the player’s life does it become a problem. Of course, this could be said of anything, from putting puzzles together to cross-stitching.

 

[Ringo84]

Unholy? Perhaps. Evil and/or wrong? No. Just as playing Monopoly doesn't make you a megalomaniacal businessperson, videogames don't make you a heartless killer.

Super Mario:
- killing the bad guys

Super Mario?! I expected the usual rundown of Grand Theft Auto, but Super Mario? Are you kidding?
Ringo