Are Catholics Saved?

[iluvtheSims]

If they've accepted Jesus as their savior than yes they are saved.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

What I meant is that if you take the whole of Catholic doctrine, adding and removing nothing, it does not line up with (and in some cases contradicts) Scripture on certain key issues like salvation.

The truth is, that if you take the whole of Catholic doctrine, adding and removing nothing, it does not line up with (and in some cases contradicts) your interpretation of Scripture on certain key issues like salvation. Indeed, the Roman Catholic interpretation of Scripture on certain key issues like salvation is in very much closer to the prevailing Protestant interpretation than is Calvinism.

We call ourselves Baptists because we interpret the Scriptures as Baptists.

 

[Alithis]

Just because the RCC does not teach the true gospel does not mean that some Catholics do not hear and believe the true gospel. I have a good friend who is Catholic, and he knows and believes the true gospel. He also knows he should come out of the RCC, but this has been difficult for him (family).

No denomination is perfect, you will discover that the Baptist church is off on some doctrine. That does not prevent folks from hearing the true gospel and believing it.

my wife was the same.. but she fully got out

 

[AFPJ]

The truth is, that if you take the whole of Catholic doctrine, adding and removing nothing, it does not line up with (and in some cases contradicts) your interpretation of Scripture on certain key issues like salvation.

It may very well be my own interpretation, but I think that the most Protestants agree that we are saved through faith in Christ alone as based on Scriptures read in context. When another doctrine claims that faith alone does not save, but that faith and good works are required for salvation, we now have a serious problem. I believe the faith plus works ideology is dangerously flawed because it deminishes the mercy and grace given to us when Christ endured the full wrath of God on our behalf. If works is required for one's salvation, that would mean that Christ did not pay for all our sins and that we must make up for the last bit. I find Scripture very clear in that His death atoned for all of our sins, and we are no longer in debt as a result. (Romans 8:1-4)

That is why I must go back to saying that it is a different gospel, because the good news is (again perhaps by my own interpretation) that we are depraved, wretched sinners who were condemned to Hell, but, through Christ's sacrifice, freed completely from our guilt and given everlasting life. At no point do our good deeds (of which in God's glory there are none Isaiah 64:6) play any role in our salvation.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

It may very well be my own interpretation, but I think that the most Protestants agree that we are saved through faith in Christ alone as based on Scriptures read in context. When another doctrine claims that faith alone does not save, but that faith and good works are required for salvation, we now have a serious problem. I believe the faith plus works ideology is dangerously flawed because it deminishes the mercy and grace given to us when Christ endured the full wrath of God on our behalf. If works is required for one's salvation, that would mean that Christ did not pay for all our sins and that we must make up for the last bit. I find Scripture very clear in that His death atoned for all of our sins, and we are no longer in debt as a result. (Romans 8:1-4)

That is why I must go back to saying that it is a different gospel, because the good news is (again perhaps by my own interpretation) that we are depraved, wretched sinners who were condemned to Hell, but, through Christ's sacrifice, freed completely from our guilt and given everlasting life. At no point do our good deeds (of which in God's glory there are none Isaiah 64:6) play any role in our salvation.

I you were to discuss this issue with a knowledgeable Roman Catholic, he would show you in the Scriptures that:

In the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus says absolutely nothing about salvation through faith. Moreover, when asked by people what they needed to do to inherit eternal life, Jesus told them what works they needed to perform.

In the Gospel According to John, Jesus teaches that in order to abide (remain) in Him, one must keep His commandments—commandments that include doing good works.

In his Epistle to the Ephesians, the Apostle Paul writes that we are saved by grace through faith, not as a result of works. However, when we compare this with what he writes, in many other places, about works, we see that he is writing about works of the Law—with a great emphasis upon circumcision. That is, he is writing that Gentiles do not need to become Jews in order to be saved. He is NOT contradicting what Jesus taught. Ephesians 2:8-9 needs to be read in context of the rest of the chapter and in the context of Paul’s teachings elsewhere.

James, in his epistle, wrote,

James 2:14. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15. If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16. and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17. So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18. Indeed someone may say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22. You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24. See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26. For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

So, who is right? Who is preaching the true gospel? It’s a matter of personal conviction. We are Baptists—but that does not necessarily mean that we are right and that they are wrong.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I beleive it's clear from Scripture, and verified authentically by Yhvh directly to His children, that it's not a matter at any time or place of personal interpretation or any business's interpretation.
Man has thoroughly messed up, and it is a "SURPRISE!" when anyone gets saved. (look up "SURPRISE!" if Yhvh permits, in Scripture in "The Message").
Even there, or in any other translation,
the Scripture is never for man's interpretation. That's why all religions fail, although not nearly the only reason.

 

[OzSpen]

We call ourselves Baptists because we interpret the Scriptures as Baptists.

That might be how some come to be Baptist, but I know some (including myself) who are Baptist because we read the Scriptures for core biblical teachings. Then we went searching for a church that more-or-less teaches those doctrines. That's when we found the Baptists.

Please don't assume that people do it your way and 'interpret the Scriptures as Baptists'.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

That might be how some come to be Baptist, but I know some (including myself) who are Baptist because we read the Scriptures for core biblical teachings. Then we went searching for a church that more-or-less teaches those doctrines. That's when we found the Baptists.

Please don't assume that people do it your way and 'interpret the Scriptures as Baptists'.

Did you stop interpreting the Scriptures when you found some Baptist Christians—or did you continue to interpret the Scriptures, as a Baptist?

 

[Alithis]

I you were to discuss this issue with a knowledgeable Roman Catholic, he would show you in the Scriptures that:

In the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus says absolutely nothing about salvation through faith. Moreover, when asked by people what they needed to do to inherit eternal life, Jesus told them what works they needed to perform.

In the Gospel According to John, Jesus teaches that in order to abide (remain) in Him, one must keep His commandments—commandments that include doing good works.

In his Epistle to the Ephesians, the Apostle Paul writes that we are saved by grace through faith, not as a result of works. However, when we compare this with what he writes, in many other places, about works, we see that he is writing about works of the Law—with a great emphasis upon circumcision. That is, he is writing that Gentiles do not need to become Jews in order to be saved. He is NOT contradicting what Jesus taught. Ephesians 2:8-9 needs to be read in context of the rest of the chapter and in the context of Paul’s teachings elsewhere.

James, in his epistle, wrote,

James 2:14. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15. If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16. and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17. So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18. Indeed someone may say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22. You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24. See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26. For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

So, who is right? Who is preaching the true gospel? It’s a matter of personal conviction. We are Baptists—but that does not necessarily mean that we are right and that they are wrong.

of course the Op is probably referring to the "other" parts of rome's gospel.. ie ,you must join rome to be saved,only an rc priest can administer communion,the wafer becomes actual flesh,the pope is gods mouthpiece on earth making him infallible ,mary is the mother of god(God who is eternal without beginning..cant have a mother ,so its blasphemy ) etc

folks are walking on eggshells afraid of breaking some forum rule. but everything i just pointed out is in adherence to the nicene creed and baptist doctrine.

the problem is in the Op question... are catholics saved? its like asking are "People" who are brought up under any umbrella of doctrine saved. we cant know. but God knows those whose faith in Jesus is sincere..
so we leave the judgment in his hands.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

of course the Op is probably referring to the "other" parts of rome's gospel.. ie ,you must join rome to be saved,only an rc priest can administer communion,the wafer becomes actual flesh,the pope is gods mouthpiece on earth making him infallible ,mary is the mother of god(God who is eternal without beginning..cant have a mother ,so its blasphemy ) etc
.

Only one of the doctrines that you listed here have to do with salvation—and that doctrine is NOT a current doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church! Their current official stance regarding non-Roman Catholic Christians is that we are their brothers and sisters in Christ yet separated from the Roman Catholic Church—hence the use of their term for us, “separated brethren.”

 

[OzSpen]

Did you stop interpreting the Scriptures when you found some Baptist Christians—or did you continue to interpret the Scriptures, as a Baptist?

Here you are not responding to the issue I raised, which was based on one of your statements. So your comment here is a diversion.

 

[Alithis]

Only one of the doctrines that you listed here have to do with salvation—and that doctrine is NOT a current doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church! Their current official stance regarding non-Roman Catholic Christians is that we are their brothers and sisters in Christ yet separated from the Roman Catholic Church—hence the use of their term for us, “separated brethren.”

lol im not so easily fooled.. the connotation that we are separated directly implies they consider themselves the only way and sooner or later we must submit to rome.
so their current official stance is motivational to that end.the change of stance is utterly deceptive and holds unrepentantly to abhorrent doctrines while seeking to reunite us under the influence of those who refuse to repent of those very doctrines which separate us..

no .it is they who have gone out from us.