Are Catholics Saved?

[Dominus Fidelis]

I combined some of these ingenious posts into one post, hopefully nobody is upset...I'd like to put this in a Catholic FAQ.

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Are Catholics saved?

When a Protestant asks, "Are you saved?" the Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

According to many Evangelical Protestants, people "get saved" in a once-only event when they "accept Jesus" and put their faith in Him for salvation. This usually happens at an evangelistic meeting of some sort.

Catholics on the other hand, follow the Apostolic teaching that Accepting Jesus is the beginning not the end of our journey with God. We are justified through baptism, but we can, by our actions (or failure to act) remove ourselves from the Kingdom of God.

The confusion is that Catholics see justification and salvation as separate things. Baptism justifies us but it is not a guarantee of salvation because our wills are free to choose to reject saving grace unto death and our wills are free to choose to reject the free gift for a life of mortal sin.

 

[Benedicta00]

catholics and protestants are very similiar, protestants believe your justified by faith, catholics by baptism.

No this is not quite right, we are justified by grace, that is what baptism is, it is pure, free grace for anyone who comes to the font to receive it, freely from God.

It cleanses you of original sin which reconciles you to God as his child, that has to be dealt with, one can not be justified if he has original sin, God’s justice demands satisfaction for this sin that we have inherited not committed and when you have been cleansed from original sin through the grace that baptism confers on the soul you are put to death with Christ mystically and you rise with him so any personal sins you may have on your soul at baptism are also forgiven, you literally are a new creation.

Now, when you fall from grace you have a way back to God because you are justified and that way is Jesus Christ who will stand between you and your sins offering his one perfect sacrifice for you making satisfaction for your sins when you confess and repent of your sins to God. That is the difference between justification and salvation. Salvation is an event that we will not enjoy until we are actually up there in heaven. Because of our baptism, we now have the hope of salvation living in us.

 

[Preachers12]

How does a Catholic define "Justification"? What does that mean?

Cary.Melvin, Peace be with you.

I suggest looking at the Catechism of the Catholic Church, specifically #s 1987-2011. This may answer some of your questions.

God Bless,
P12

 

[BrianInNC]

Salvation is a process . .

Indeed. As is sanctifcation. But it's evangelical/fundamentalist insistence on viewing both as a point-in-time event that makes discussion on salvation (and purgatory) so frustrating. They are often unable even to comprehend the catholic world-view. The mere suggestion that it wasn't all accomplished irrevocably at their conversion triggers knee-jerk reactions on how that "denies the sufficiency of the Cross" or "makes our actions more important than Jesus's" and like sentiments.

Frustrated, but still trying,

Brian

 

[BrianInNC]

The protestant concept of "being saved" is a confusing one.

* * *

If you are "saved" from a certain date, what happens if you fall into sin after that date, or do none of the good deeds Jesus asked for, or if you turn away from Christ after that date?

Do you become unsaved?
Most Protestants would say Yes.

But if you can become "unsaved", once you have been "saved". Then no-one can really say for certain that they are "saved", and certain to go to heaven. So the concept of being "saved" loses meaning.

This has led to big divisions among Protestants.

Some believe in "Eternal Security", which states that whatever you do, however evil, you will still go to heaven, once "saved".

Other protestants condemn this doctrine, and say that this is a deception. Of course you cannot sin and abandon Christ and still be welcomed to heaven!

In response the Eternal Security believers and Calvinists say that those "saved" people who later fall into sin, were never really saved at all. They were deluded into feeling saved, but weren't actually saved.

However this again leads to the idea of being "saved" losing its meaning. Since you can never know if you were "truly" saved at that bible rally, or were just deluded into feeling you were!

Yes, but Axion, I'm sure your experience in these discussions is like mine: the Eternal Security proponent won't ever acknowledge that his/her subjective opinion on salvation is open to question. It's always the other guy who was deluded. They pat a person on the back when he 'accepts Jesus,' telling him salvation is assured; but if that same person later falls off the deep end, their facile, post-facto rationalization is that the person 'never was really saved to start.'

The convert thought and acted sincere. They who congratulated the convert thought and acted as if it was all genuine. Now they must admit it wasn't. But to admit from there the mere possibility that their own conversion experience is open even to the slightest question or doubt is unthinkable.

"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

* * *
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." Luke 8:11,13

Why are they immune from temptation or trial any less than their fellow 'lapsed' convert?

Go figure.

There is a reason why Christ told us to pray "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one."

This is forward-looking. Salvation is a process.

 

[BrianInNC]

We go to a Christian bible study group and we are the only Catholics there..

They believe that when you are saved you are freed from your old self and going to heaven no matter what, and when you sin its not your new saved self sinning.. its the old self before you were saved sinning...

Are you confused.. because I am.. if any one has heard of this, and can explain it to me that would be great.. I never understood it.

I've encountered this many times. There are always variations of expression, so some generalizing is necessary here.

That viewpoint derives from misreading of Paul, to the point where they seem to embrace a 'duality' which sees 'our flesh' as existing on earth and our 'spirit' being reborn and pretty much already seated in Heaven.

It seems to rest with a combination of verses, like:

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Rom. 7:14-20

And

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus[.] Eph. 2:6

And

22You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:22-24


And I might throw in:

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9

So, piecing ideas like these together, they arrive at a view which sees Man not as a unity of body and soul, but rather a loose union of "flesh" and "spirit" -- the sinful flesh (old self) remains (but is largely beside the point) and the sparking, regenerated, spotless spirit (new self) is "seen as" already existing with God. The 'old' flesh sins; the 'new spirit' does not/cannot sin.

Therefore, the sins of the flesh have no bearing on our 'spirit.' (Or, what I facetiously dub the "Teflon Soul Theory.")

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Teflon Soul Theory

 

[Miss Shelby]

to Brian.

 

[parousia88]

When a Protestant asks, "Are you saved?" the Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

I like this, too. I have a Protestant friend, who is always asking, "Are you saved?" Next time he asks this, I'll show him this. Thanks a lot. (I know I'm behind, but I'm new here, and I usually go to a much, much, much smaller site. It's frankly rather confusing!)

 

[Swoosh]

Welcome Parousia88 =)

 

[KennySe]

I like this, too. I have a Protestant friend, who is always asking, "Are you saved?" Next time he asks this, I'll show him this. Thanks a lot. (I know I'm behind, but I'm new here, and I usually go to a much, much, much smaller site. It's frankly rather confusing!)

Welcome to ChristianForums and to One Bread, One Body, parousia88!

 

[parousia88]

Welcome to ChristianForums and to One Bread, One Body, parousia88!

Thanks. I hope to post some more, if I can find my way around.

 

[psalm94:17]

When a Protestant asks, "Are you saved?" the Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

Absolutely TERRIFIC!!!

 

[geocajun]

Carly, you really should have given credit for that quote to Catholic Answers who you are quoting.
www.catholic.com

 

[geocajun]

also, Tim Staples has a fun statement I like to quote on the definition of Justification.

"Justificiation is the process whereby we become 'Just-If-I'd never sinned."

you can see more in a post I wrote here: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=632232#post632232

 

[Filia Mariae]

Carly, you really should have given credit for that quote to Catholic Answers who you are quoting.

Excuse me, but why do you think I wrote:

For a more complete discussion see:

http://www.catholic.com/library/***...f_Salvation.

 

[geocajun]

Excuse me, but why do you think I wrote:

that was hardly giving credit to the source of your earlier posted quote.
you simply said that the following link gives a "more complete discussion"
not trying to split hairs or pick on you, but credit should go where its due is all.

 

[Filia Mariae]

I posted the second post literally minutes after the first. Someone had posted first and therefore there was a post in between the two. I hardly think I would have posted directly to the quote if I were attempting to plagarize it. I haven't even posted in this thread since I linked to that page, I have been at work.


Regardless, I'm not going to sit here and have an argument with you about it. I think the tone of your post was obnoxious and now I'm getting angry so I am going to use my better judgement and abandon participation in this thread.

 

[Filia Mariae]

And yes, I do think that linking directly to the quote is giving credit, as opposed to linking to the general site, which is what you did.

 

[KennySe]

To quote a wise man, "Mama mia".