Are all Baptists Calvinists?

[strelok0017]

Have fun arguing your religion. I'm done guys.

If being a calvinist makes you a better person, more power to you.

If not, then good.

Loving others does. Love is the first fruit of the Spirit and it comes before any systematic theology or whatever. We know that we belong to God if we love others. That is one of the proofs. Being Calvinist is no proof at all but good theology helps us love others better.

 

[WinBySurrender]

I would disagree. Our differences are in the God we worship. When you boil it down it is that simple.

If you put the need to be theologically sound ahead of Christ, you have negated Christ. For the most part, I'm a Calvinist. I don't find that what passes for Calvinism today is necessarily what Calvin taught, but it's not that far removed, either.

None of which matters in light of my absolute certainty that Jesus is the Son of God, God the Son, who was crucified, died, buried, and on the third day arose again in fulfillment of the prophecies and in atonement for my sin. In light of that knowledge, who is Calvin? Or Aminius, or Beza or any of the other 16th and 15th century theologians? Calvin believed in infant baptism. It's as was said on another CF thread yesterday, these reformers didn't start a new church, they reformed the church they had. So they weren't "right" in a lot of ways that we believe we are right.

So why do we hoist the Calvinist banner so high? I don't know. I'm ceertain it should not eclipse the cross.

 

[someguy14]

One way to look at that is, is Calvin's ways(teachings), teachings God has already taught us.

It is a carnal thing to focus on a man and give credit to a man for Gods work. God works through His believers. It is always about God though. God is the only one worthy of all glory for all goodness. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. It is about being of one mind, in God.

The divisions among believers is a carnal concept.
God loves His own, together, and instead of saying "Im of this or Im of that", saying Gods will be done, for Gods will is perfect.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

So then we shouldn't listen to God because He told the Jews to kill every man,woman, child and beast of the Caanaites.

Who will judge God? My brother already judges God and so do many, but how can they judge if they don't even know the one that they do?

I own my farm and go out controlling everything that interferes with its harvest. I have a right to do so, but do we have a right to judge and destroy opposition to our self-marked Christian faiths (highlighted with pet theologies)? Numbers don't matter to God when it comes to right and wrong, so we need to get close to God and not close to general acceptances! We need to be known by Jesus as obedient to his teachings and our Father's will which is revealed to us by his Holy Spirit (if we obey Jesus).

Concerning Calvin, we don't really know this man, except that he was so weak that he aided someone to die in a horrible way. We can't judge him, but we ought to question him and realize his weakness to be a part of an early evil Christian system. This system allowed theologies to dominate over the teachings, Gospel and commands of Christ. In defense of theologies, brothers and sisters persecuted each other, shameful things that have permeated Church history. Even today, I hear forms of persecution of one group against another.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Hi. I'm not technically a Baptist at the moment, but I have considered going to a Baptist church again. I would like to know, are all Baptists Calvinists? Most seem as if they are, so I'm wondering about that.

Not even close. Traditional Baptists are Calvinists. But there was a lot of bad Arminian theology that took hold in Baptist Churches during the late 19th and throughout the 20th century. So, in many Baptist Churches people believe that Christ died for everyone and that salvation is available for anyone at any time all they have to do is ask for it. So, its a sad state of affairs today in Baptist circles theologically.

 

[Hammster]

Wow. Someone actually threw out the Servetus it's the biggest genetic fallacy against Calvinism and proves that they have no wattle idea what they are talking about.

 

[Skala]

While not all baptists are Calvinists, the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith is Calvinistic in nature. Some baptists still adhere to what our baptist ancestors believed. Others do not.

 

[DeaconDean]

While not all baptists are Calvinists, the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith is Calvinistic in nature. Some baptists still adhere to what our baptist ancestors believed. Others do not.

The first Baptist Confession of Faith written in the Americas was Calvinistic.

The Philadelphia Baptist Association Confession of Faith of 1742 was a restatement of the 1689 2nd London Baptist Confession.

So, from 1742, at least in America, Baptists first announced they were "Calvinistic" by confession and by nature.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[ashout]

calvin...who is calvin...didn't he have a tiger friend named hobbes?

 

[Stephen Kendall]

One way to look at that is, is Calvin's ways(teachings), teachings God has already taught us.

It is a carnal thing to focus on a man and give credit to a man for Gods work. God works through His believers. It is always about God though. God is the only one worthy of all glory for all goodness. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. It is about being of one mind, in God.

The divisions among believers is a carnal concept.
God loves His own, together, and instead of saying "Im of this or Im of that", saying Gods will be done, for Gods will is perfect.

Though, a lot of individuals do not listen, it is good to speak to try to help them. Their mocking will turn in the day of Judgment. So, keep speaking, some will listen and change, that is enough. These poor souls who act carelessly should be loved and always prayed for. It is better to love the lost and our enemies then to give up on them. Christian love is known for hoping, praying and caring till the end. We belong not to ourselves but the one true God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Skala]

I think all Baptists are innocent of the horror that Calvin inflicted on Michael Servetus. If not, then they are as guilty as he was of having his hands in this murder. Did Jesus say love each other, love your enemies or did he say do a Calvin on someone? I can not believe that people are so ignorant of the horrors of the Christian history's shameful misaligned campaigns through their theologies against someone else's. Come on, where is the common sense of obeying Jesus over what another person would say for us to do?

Thankfully, Calvinism has nothing to do with whether such-and-such individual did this-or-that, but everything to do with exegesis of the Bible.

Whether Calvin was ever born or not, Calvinism would still be true because it's exactly what the Bible teaches.

Why are we listening to murders and those who disobey the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ?

Why do you listen to your local pastor? He's a murderer too, who disobeys the teaching of Christ. In fact, you're a murderer too, who disobeys Christ. So why do you listen to your own interpretation of scripture? In fact, Paul the Apostle was a murderer too, yet you listen to him.

Did you forget that all men are guilty of breaking all of God's law? I guess so, in your emotional rant. You threw doctrine out the window.

That being said, you need to get your facts straight. The events you so scholarly presented here have a certain historical context. You might want to make sure you know what the heck you are talking about, do your homework, before you simply start regurgitating what you heard other people say.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Thankfully, Calvinism has nothing to do with whether such-and-such individual did this-or-that, but everything to do with exegesis of the Bible.

Whether Calvin was ever born or not, Calvinism would still be true because it's exactly what the Bible teaches.



Why do you listen to your local pastor? He's a murderer too, who disobeys the teaching of Christ. In fact, you're a murderer too, who disobeys Christ. So why do you listen to your own interpretation of scripture? In fact, Paul the Apostle was a murderer too, yet you listen to him.

Did you forget that all men are guilty of breaking all of God's law? I guess so, in your emotional rant. You threw doctrine out the window.

That being said, you need to get your facts straight. The events you so scholarly presented here have a certain historical context. You might want to make sure you know what the heck you are talking about, do your homework, before you simply start regurgitating what you heard other people say.

When you read about what happened realize from the facts that Calvin could have protected Servetus, but chose to protect himself and his reputation & theology. He chose to support the friction between beliefs and the death sentence to come between his accepted theology and Servetus' opposition ( a nontrinitarian Christology ). I agree that this opposing view wasn't solely about Calvinism, but instead in the state of Churches' spiritual health (trinity). How does a doctrine go against whom it is suppose to support, Jesus Christ? Are theologians and their believers so blinded by their ineptness to understand Jesus that they justify murder?! Many outside our Faith hate Christians and don't believe that Jesus is as Christians say, instead he is just a good man blown out of proportions (made into a legend). If you can not obey Jesus then you are against him. Obeying comes with understanding him and his Father, not creating a mental picture to piece it all together. Theologies were never needed, obeying the man Jesus Christ is required to be called believing him and following him. Why should anyone follow those disobedient to him?

Servetus was one of many killed by the days' hypocrites who called anyone with opposing theological view heretics (which were to be murdered in the worst possible way). I would much rather have been killed by these true heretics (Christian hypocrites) than to follow their extremely questionable theologies & teachings or their examples stained by innocent peoples' and the Saints' blood. What right does a church or spiritual leader have to boldly challenge our Lord's commands and teachings, such as love you enemies and brethren. The true dark ages are the spiritual ones that we have been living in for a long time. You may so neatly cut my words to pieces, but if what I say is true, then there is one who can cut you to pieces, I pray not.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Here is a little of the history that you say I have wrong, it goes on with more....

Imprisonment and execution
On 16 February 1553, Servetus, while in Vienne, was denounced as a heretic by Guillaume de Trie, a rich merchant who had taken refuge in Geneva— a very good friend of Calvin,[14]—in a letter sent to a cousin, Antoine Arneys, who was living in Lyon. On behalf of the French inquisitor Matthieu Ory, Servetus as well as Balthasard Arnollet, the printer of Christianismi Restitutio, were questioned, but they denied all charges and were released for lack of evidence. Arneys was asked by Ory to write back to De Trie, demanding proof. On 26 March 1553, the letters sent by Servetus to Calvin and some manuscript pages of Christianismi Restitutio were forwarded to Lyon by Trie. On 4 April 1553 Servetus was arrested by Roman Catholic authorities, and imprisoned in Vienne. He escaped from prison three days later. On 17 June, he was convicted of heresy by the French Inquisition, "thanks to the 17 letters sent by Jehan Calvin, preacher in Geneva"[15] and sentenced to be burned with his books. An effigy and his books were burned in his absence.

There is more at Michael Servetus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There are other sources to find similar writings and history. After finding this and other similar Christian histories all over the place in books & online, I began to closely examine what has been going on here. I researched key areas of faith, to see if I were personally going to believe in them.

I have no doubt in Jesus and his Father, never had and never will, but I have serious doubt in people who disobey the teachings and commands of our Lord Jesus and so they don't understand God. i can't understand why more Christians don't really check these things out and be brave to follow Jesus and really seek God's will. I must have researched for almost a year before coming to an understanding of our Faith. It is a spiritual fast that made me well again. You don't question Jesus, but you do question the rest. This fast to live of pure water alone (truth itself and nothing else) helps cleanse the soul of much inferior collected tissues, from fat to tumors, they are gone.

 

[MrJG]

Hi. I'm not technically a Baptist at the moment, but I have considered going to a Baptist church again. I would like to know, are all Baptists Calvinists? Most seem as if they are, so I'm wondering about that.

I am a Baptist and not under the persuasion of Calvin's theology.

 

[Hammster]

Here is a little of the history that you say I have wrong, it goes on with more....

Imprisonment and execution
On 16 February 1553, Servetus, while in Vienne, was denounced as a heretic by Guillaume de Trie, a rich merchant who had taken refuge in Geneva-- a very good friend of Calvin,[14]--in a letter sent to a cousin, Antoine Arneys, who was living in Lyon. On behalf of the French inquisitor Matthieu Ory, Servetus as well as Balthasard Arnollet, the printer of Christianismi Restitutio, were questioned, but they denied all charges and were released for lack of evidence. Arneys was asked by Ory to write back to De Trie, demanding proof. On 26 March 1553, the letters sent by Servetus to Calvin and some manuscript pages of Christianismi Restitutio were forwarded to Lyon by Trie. On 4 April 1553 Servetus was arrested by Roman Catholic authorities, and imprisoned in Vienne. He escaped from prison three days later. On 17 June, he was convicted of heresy by the French Inquisition, "thanks to the 17 letters sent by Jehan Calvin, preacher in Geneva"[15] and sentenced to be burned with his books. An effigy and his books were burned in his absence.

There is more at Michael Servetus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There are other sources to find similar writings and history. After finding this and other similar Christian histories all over the place in books & online, I began to closely examine what has been going on here. I researched key areas of faith, to see if I were personally going to believe in them.

I have no doubt in Jesus and his Father, never had and never will, but I have serious doubt in people who disobey the teachings and commands of our Lord Jesus and so they don't understand God. i can't understand why more Christians don't really check these things out and be brave to follow Jesus and really seek God's will. I must have researched for almost a year before coming to an understanding of our Faith. It is a spiritual fast that made me well again. You don't question Jesus, but you do question the rest. This fast to live of pure water alone (truth itself and nothing else) helps cleanse the soul of much inferior collected tissues, from fat to tumors, they are gone.

Let's say that not only was Calvin a murderer, but that it gas been discovered that he was an adulterer and a drunkard as well. How would this affect monergism?

 

[ByronArn]

Not even close. Traditional Baptists are Calvinists. But there was a lot of bad Arminian theology that took hold in Baptist Churches during the late 19th and throughout the 20th century. So, in many Baptist Churches people believe that Christ died for everyone and that salvation is available for anyone at any time all they have to do is ask for it. So, its a sad state of affairs today in Baptist circles theologically.

Actually, according to Wikipedia, the General Baptists (Arminians that believed in a general atonement) predated the Particular Baptists (Calvinists), although not by much. What this shows, imho, is that there have been Arminian Baptists and Calvinistic Baptists since the very begining of Baptist history in England. To say one is more traditional than the other is to ignore history. Yes, Calvinistic Baptists have been more vocal and more willing to write creeds and confessions, but both types of Baptists have existed on the religious landscape of both North America and Europe since the begining. And now, throughout the world.

 

[jomarc]

Hard to say. But if the Southern Baptist in question reads and studies Romans 9, he will at least consider Calvinism...and he will be open minded enough not to condemn a fellow brother who leans toward Calvinism.

On the other hand if the Southern Baptist in question chooses not to read and consider Romans 9, then he is probably an Armnian ostrich with his head in the sand. {Not trying to be funny}.

I lean toward Calvinism. But only because I believe the Scriptures in their entirety. And those same Scriptures insist that I must evangelize as well.

Calvinism and Evangelism are not mutually exclusive.

.......

To answer your question....I feel that more Baptists are leaning toward Calvinism. [At least the ones who study the Bible seriously].

 

[BrookeGF]

Actually Calvinism is just now becoming more common in Baptist churches. Or at least from what I've heard. It would also depend on the kind of church you are going to such as Fundamentalist Baptist Church, Southern Baptist, or Independent. I know a church in my area called Freewill Baptist Church and I don't think they are Calvinists. I think my church mostly holds to perseverance of the saints and total depravity. So they are not 5 point Calvinists. It sometimes depends on the Pastor of the church but many Baptist churches would not vote in a 5 point Calvinist because of the teachings of limited atonement. That wouldn't hold well with many old-fashioned Baptists. Although I wouldn't take anything I say as written in stone. This is just from my experience.

I go to a SBC and I lean more towards Calvinism although I'm not a 5 pointer yet But I know Baptists who are completely against it.

Another thing I've noticed is that many young people, who seriously study the Bible, are becoming Calvinists. Like the above poster said.

 

[WinBySurrender]

Though many seem to think Calvinism is "new" to the Baptist denominations, that is incorrect. Baptists have always been Calvinistic in their approach to Scripture, since before the Civil War. Calvinism is said to have had a "stronger influence" in the Southern Baptist Convention in the last 30 years, but that also is a fallacy, though perhaps it would be accurate to say that, since the return to a strictly literal interpretation of Scripture, more SBC members hdave begun to realize that Calvinism is a bedrock of the denomination's heritage.

Article V, "God's Purpose of Grace," in the Baptist Faith and Message (BF&M) states:

Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility. All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.
​

This statement, reaching back to the original BF&M in 1925 and to the New Hampshire Confession of Faith (1833) upon which it was based, accomplishes a significant feat; it accommodates the soteriological convictions of both Calvinists and those who think they are non-Calvinists within the SBC family. I say "think they are non-Calvinists" because, when examined, most people who state they don't buy into Calvinism are actually closer to the 16th century theologian than they think.

 

[Skala]

When you read about what happened realize from the facts that Calvin could have protected Servetus, but chose to protect himself and his reputation & theology. He chose to support the friction between beliefs and the death sentence to come between his accepted theology and Servetus' opposition ( a nontrinitarian Christology ). I agree that this opposing view wasn't solely about Calvinism, but instead in the state of Churches' spiritual health (trinity). How does a doctrine go against whom it is suppose to support, Jesus Christ? Are theologians and their believers so blinded by their ineptness to understand Jesus that they justify murder?! Many outside our Faith hate Christians and don't believe that Jesus is as Christians say, instead he is just a good man blown out of proportions (made into a legend). If you can not obey Jesus then you are against him. Obeying comes with understanding him and his Father, not creating a mental picture to piece it all together. Theologies were never needed, obeying the man Jesus Christ is required to be called believing him and following him. Why should anyone follow those disobedient to him?

Servetus was one of many killed by the days' hypocrites who called anyone with opposing theological view heretics (which were to be murdered in the worst possible way). I would much rather have been killed by these true heretics (Christian hypocrites) than to follow their extremely questionable theologies & teachings or their examples stained by innocent peoples' and the Saints' blood. What right does a church or spiritual leader have to boldly challenge our Lord's commands and teachings, such as love you enemies and brethren. The true dark ages are the spiritual ones that we have been living in for a long time. You may so neatly cut my words to pieces, but if what I say is true, then there is one who can cut you to pieces, I pray not.

Blah blah blah.

"as many as were appointed to eternal life believed" Acts 13:48

There's predestination for you. It's in the Bible whether or not servetus or Calvin even existed.

The Servetus card is a red herring. It is literally irrelevant to this discussion. All that matters is "WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY", not "what happened in history??"

Nobody is "following" John Calvin. All Christians follow the Bible.

It's the Bible that teaches what Calvin believed. Calvin only believed and taught exactly what the Bible teaches. He only believed and taught what all of the reformers and puritans and all the greatest theologians and teachers and preachers and church counsels in church history believed and taught.

if you think the doctrines contained in "Calvinism" originated with John Calvin, you are sorely mistaken.

I'm sorry for my harsh rant, but I"m really tired of people thinking that John Calvin has anything to do with this discussion. Many Calvinists myself included have never read or studied a single thing John Calvin ever wrote or preached. When someone asks me why I'm' a Calvinist, I don't say "Well, because John Calvin said..", no. I bust out my bible and show them certain passages. Many Christians have never even heard of or seen those passages. It's like new territory to them. it's like they didn't even know such a statement existed in scripture. That's because most Christians are only familiar with bumper sticker theology and have a few choice bible verses memorized, like John 3:16.