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Are Adventists the Only 'True' Christians?

reddogs

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With so many people and even churches taking out the old testament from their beliefs, parsing the verses in the New Testament, ignoring basic scriptural doctrines, etc.. Are Adventist the only ones truly following Gods word and the testimonies of Jesus Christ?

Here is a excerpt on the subject by Richard W. O'Ffill:

"...
  1. Is it true that you have to be a Seventh-day Adventist to receive salvation and become a child of God?
  2. Do only Seventh-day Adventists have their names written in the Book of Life?
  3. Are there true born-again children of God in other denominations?
If the answer to the first question is No, and if the answer to the second question is No, and if the answer to the third question is Yes...then we have to ask ourselves another question: If you don't have to be an Adventist to receive salvation and become a child of God, why be an Adventist at all? Then we must ask ourselves still another question, and that is, what is the significance of the Seventh-day Adventist Church? Is our church just another option? A generation ago we didn't ask these kinds of questions or think much about it. Though it was never a "policy statement," the fact was that many of us believed that everyone who wasn't an SDA did not have salvation and was not a child of God.
Even we Adventists wondered if we had salvation, being the kind of Adventists that we knew that we were! So back then everybody was lost but you and me, and sometimes I worried about you! Today the thinking has changed. Today, everybody is as saved as everybody else, so why worry?

Of course, if that is true, it brings up another question: If everybody is as saved as everybody else, aren't we Adventists going to a lot of trouble for nothing? In the 21st century many of us have gone in our thinking from ridiculous to the sublime. It seems to me that it is important, both corporately and from a personal point of view, that we come to grips with the matter of, Why are we Seventh-day Adventists? Why am I a Seventh-day Adventist? Has our church simply become "our favorite charity?" Is the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the 21st century just another option?

Yes, many of us used to feel that we were the only ones going to be saved. This feeling was driven by the fear that we felt we had a life and death message for the world, and this message was so important that if a person didn't accept it they would be lost. Another question: Was that ever really true? Or more importantly...is it true now?

Speaking of the Message. We used to talk about the "Message;" now we are more likely to talk about "Adventism." I would like to ask you, is there a difference in concepts when we say "Message" or when we speak of "Adventism?" I think there is an important difference of concept expressed by the two words, because to me it seems that a "Message" would be something for everybody while "Adventism" would be for Adventists. That would make "Adventism" an option to be considered like the other "isms" like Methodism or Catholicism.

I believe in another generation we had a clearer vision of who we were because we had a sense of relevancy. You have heard the word "relevant." We say something is relevant or irrelevant. "Relevant" is a word that has to do with the here and now. We say something is relevant or irrelevant based on its relationship to the here and now. Something is considered relevant if it has to do with what is going on; it is considered irrelevant if it doesn't have anything to do with what is going on.

The founders of our faith believed that the hour of God's judgment had begun. They believed that the coming of Jesus was "at the door." In fact, they were so convinced about the nearness of the Second Coming of Jesus that their life's decisions were actually influenced by this conviction. This little dish that I have in my hand is a piece from a set of dishes that was sold by a family that disposed of everything that they had to get ready for October 22, 1844. To put it in plain language, those people put their money where their mouth was.

A study of the beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church will soon lead you to conclude that the message of this church only has relevancy if you believe in the concept of the Investigative Judgment, and also that the signs indicate that His return is even now at the door. By the way, the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment is not complicated. Basically, it means that Jesus decides who will be saved or lost before He comes. The average person in the street essentially believes that they have until the moment that Jesus comes to get ready.

But let's go on. If a person believes that the Coming of Christ is open-ended, and that there is no Investigative Judgment or close of probation, then the message we have is at worse emasculated and loses relevance or at best it simply becomes institutionalized. What was once a "Message," then becomes simply another institution. Another institution which takes its place in the Hall of Fame where the other respected institutions who got there first reside: The Baptists, the Presbyterians, the Churches of Jesus Christ, ect..."

"...Is the Adventist message relevant in the 21st century? Or let's put it in a different perspective: Is the Adventist message a matter of life and death in the 21st century? The answer, ladies and gentlemen, is a thousand times YES. Even though it seems to us that the Lord is delaying His coming, this is only a perception on our part. He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness. Contrary to what many of us think, the Second Coming of Christ is not a floating event carried along by the tides of human events. The flood of Noah came on time. The children of Israel came out on the self-same day. The captivity ended in 70 years. Jesus died in the fullness of time. The Investigative Judgment began when it was supposed to. God has always fulfilled His purposes on the day appointed and I believe the Second Coming of our Lord will be no exception. Who is in charge here? Him or us?

Beloved, believe it or not, our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. Now hang on to your seats. The generation that is alive when Jesus comes the second time will not only see Jesus face to face, they will have seen the Devil face to face. But he will not appear as the Devil. He will appear as Christ himself. Ladies and gentlemen, listen to what happens just before Jesus comes.
II Cor. 11:14, "And no marvel! For Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
Matt. 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, in so much that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Revelation 16:13-14, "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

II Thess. 2:8-12, "And there shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His Coming! Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The deception that is referred to in these texts is not perpetrated against the lost. Why should the Devil worry about deceiving his own? The great deception of the evil one is directed against those whose names are found written in the Book of Life, whether they be Baptists, Methodists, Assemblies of God or Catholics. The great deception is leveled by the Devil to deceive and snatch away those who have given their hearts to Jesus and who have salvation.

Remember, to get your name written in the Lamb's Book of Life, to receive salvation, to get saved, you have only to believe in Jesus and accept Him as Savior with all your heart. No questions asked. The Great Deception then, if it is to be a deception at all, must be targeted toward those who have the promise of salvation no matter what denomination they are from. The purpose of the great deception is to deceive them into giving up their salvation and throwing in their lot with the Antichrist, which in those days will be Satan himself.

So where do Adventists come in? It's right here. At this time in earth's history, here is where having all our doctrinal ducks in a row not only is essential for our salvation, but for the salvation of the whole Christian world. Do you have to be an Adventist to receive salvation? No. But if you are a Baptist or Methodist or Catholic, you had better listen to what Adventists are saying or you could lose your salvation, because the deception that is played out by the Devil on the last generation deceives, if possible, the very elect...."
 

woobadooba

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Richard OFfill said:
Of course, if that is true, it brings up another question: If everybody is as saved as everybody else, aren't we Adventists going to a lot of trouble for nothing? In the 21st century many of us have gone in our thinking from ridiculous to the sublime. It seems to me that it is important, both corporately and from a personal point of view, that we come to grips with the matter of, Why are we Seventh-day Adventists? Why am I a Seventh-day Adventist? Has our church simply become "our favorite charity?" Is the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the 21st century just another option?

Richard is making a fatal error here. He is implying that salvation comes by what you know, and how well you know it.

In other words, the one who has the most truth is the one that is mostly saved relative to the one that has the least of it.

The problem however, is that there is no such thing as one being more saved than someone else. You are either with Jesus, or you aren't with Jesus. There is no middle ground here.

It's like some who like to argue that one can be more filled with the Holy Spirit than someone else, as if to imply that the Holy Spirit lives within us in bits and pieces.

This is false. You are either filled with the Holy Spirit, or you are not filled with the Holy Spirit. There is no such thing as being partially filled with the Holy Spirit. For, how could anything be 'partially filled'?

Moreover, it's not what we know that saves us, but who we knew. It's not how much truth we have that determines whether we are saved or not, but what we are doing with what we have identifies whether we are really walking with God.

A study of the beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church will soon lead you to conclude that the message of this church only has relevancy if you believe in the concept of the Investigative Judgment, and also that the signs indicate that His return is even now at the door. By the way, the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment is not complicated. Basically, it means that Jesus decides who will be saved or lost before He comes. The average person in the street essentially believes that they have until the moment that Jesus comes to get ready.

If we truly believe that God knows the end from the beginning, then why would God have to make a decision on anything at all?

God doesn't decide anything. He orders it. He knew who would be saved from eternity. He doesn't have to decide who will or won't be saved, as if to suggest that He never really knew, but had to make that determination by examining our
lives, as we live them.

Just as prayer doesn't inform God of things He doesn't already know, but teaches us that we can rely on Him, the investigative judgment isn't for God to know who to justify; rather, it is there for us to know that God is just.

The idea of deciding something presupposes that one doesn't know what will happen as a result of When
But let's go on. If a person believes that the Coming of Christ is open-ended, and that there is no Investigative Judgment or close of probation, then the message we have is at worse emasculated and loses relevance or at best it simply becomes institutionalized.


It is good to know that he sees the problem with his idea that God has to 'decide'.

I don't believe that the only alternative left is to suggest that God is 'open'.

It's like the Armenian who says, "Christ died for us because He foreknew that we would keep His commands", and the Calvinist who says, "Christ died for us because He predestined us to be saved", as if to imply that Christ didn't die for everyone, but only a select few.

Is there no other alternative? Why is it so hard to believe that even if God foreknew that no one would ever believe in Him, that He would have died for us anyway?

That is, at least, my picture of a 'just' God.

Having said that, can there not be an alternative view on the issue of the Investigative judgment? Of course there is.

You see, it isn't for God to know who we really are, but for us to know who He really is.

Beloved, believe it or not, our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. Now hang on to your seats. The generation that is alive when Jesus comes the second time will not only see Jesus face to face, they will have seen the Devil face to face. But he will not appear as the Devil. He will appear as Christ himself. Ladies and gentlemen, listen to what happens just before Jesus comes.

I get his point, but he needs to be more careful with his words. The devil will not appear as Christ 'Himself'; rather, he will 'impersonate' Christ.

One can not appear as Christ 'Himself' without being Christ.

Remember, to get your name written in the Lamb's Book of Life, to receive salvation, to get saved, you have only to believe in Jesus and accept Him as Savior with all your heart.

How does one get his name written in the book of Life when God already knows who will and won't be saved?

Here is something about God that most people don't pick up on...

Jesus said, "The one who overcomes, this one will be clothed in white clothing. And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." (Rev 3:5 MKJV)

Why would Jesus have to blot out a name from the book of life if it wasn't already there?

The key to understand the gospel in light of the character of God is disclosed in Jesus' words here, which tell us that names will be blotted out from the book of life.

We are saved by grace, through faith.

By God's grace, every name is recorded in the book of life. In other words, Jesus died for all humankind. However, only those who put their trust in Him will receive this great gift of His.

So, the idea here is not to 'get saved', but to understand that we already belong to Him, and to be true to our confession of faith in Him, so as to not abandon the life that He has already freely given to us all.

Truth is, many are saved right now and they don't even know it.

That's Grace...
 
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reddogs

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I'll give you the link as soon as I find it so you can see his total sermon......

As for "God already knows who will and won't be saved?" that is a easy one, you forget the rest of the universe needs to see that God is just and merciful and has a process when it come's to judging each and everyone of us....
 
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woobadooba

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I'll give you the link as soon as I find it so you can see his total sermon......

As for "God already knows who will and won't be saved?" that is a easy one, you forget the rest of the universe needs to see that God is just and merciful and has a process when it come's to judging each and everyone of us....

Red, did you really read all of what I had said?
 
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reddogs

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woobadooba

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I had professors throw out ideas and give me questions like this to make me think, he has a line of thought and is following through, now whether we agree with it is where the discussion comes in.......

Here is the full sermon so no one says I am quoting poor O'Ffill out of context...

http://www.revivalsermons.org/sermons/adventists_true_christians.shtml

I know Richard. I never said you quoted him out of context.

I believe Richard is very sincere in his walk with God, and that he has a lot of godly wisdom. However, he does err on some points of doctrine, as I have disclosed.

Should we take his words as they are, we would have to conclude that unless we agree with what he has said in its totality, we couldn't be saved, while knowing what has been said.

After all, are we not judged according to the truth that is in, or has been given to us?
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Thanks for the link, I think I will write a blog article on it. Woob has already pointed out several problems with his line of thinking, but I really liked his downplaying of the IJ it is kind of like saying the meaning of the second coming is to show us that God exists.
 
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reddogs

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I know Richard. I never said you quoted him out of context.

I believe Richard is very sincere in his walk with God, and that he has a lot of godly wisdom. However, he does err on some points of doctrine, as I have disclosed.

Should we take his words as they are, we would have to conclude that unless we agree with what he has said in its totality, we couldn't be saved, while knowing what has been said.

After all, are we not judged according to the truth that is in, or has been given to us?

I didnt say you did, but I think you are taking his 'questions' as 'statements'. I put questions to get people thinking when I write sometimes especially in my headings such as Does God allow sin as a alternative lifestyle for his leaders of the church.
 
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woobadooba

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I didn't say you did, but I think you are taking his 'questions' as 'statements'. I put questions to get people thinking when I write sometimes especially in my headings such as Does God allow sin as a alternative lifestyle for his leaders of the church.

Actually, although he did ask some rhetorical questions, his questions give rise to implications that disclose his true view on the subject that is in question.

I just simply took such implications to their logical end, and disclosed how they are in error by reason of being inconsistent with themselves.
 
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woobadooba

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but I really liked his downplaying of the IJ it is kind of like saying the meaning of the second coming is to show us that God exists.

I believe the meaning of the second coming to be twofold, in that it is to disclose God as just, and the justifier of those who believe. Rom. 3:26

So in essence it really will reveal that the God who is called "love" in the Bible, really does exist. 1Jn. 4:8; 1Cor. 13:12
 
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woobadooba

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I just want to make it clear that I do not believe the IJ began in 1844, but long before that time. In fact, what I see in the scriptures tells me that the IJ was happening even during Peter's time.

"because it is the time of the beginning of the judgment from the house of God, and if first from us, what the end of those disobedient to the good news of God?"
(1Pe 4:17 YLT)

I just want to make this clear so that no one confuses what I believe on this subject with what others might believe about it.
 
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truthmagnet

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i think this whole idea is rediculous and is detrimental to the Sda denomination and the rest of Christianity. God is no "respector of persons". Our Lord only judges us according to what we know. "For he who is blessed more, more is expected". SDAs may have more understanding of the Bible but that doesn't mean we "live it" more than any other denomination. i don't think any of us knows the scriptures better than satan himself and you see what good it's done him. knowledge without heart understanding and actions is fruitless. doesn't matter how much you know if you don't know how to "love your neighbor as God loves you". until we can get that right i think we are foolish to brag about "all" we know that others don't know yet. That's just vanity. I believe God will fully open the eyes and hearts of "HIS" people and reveal true understanding during tribulation so that those, who are faithful, can go through. Those will be all peoples of all faiths that have a true heart for God. That's why the scripture, "God looks on the heart". If one is sincere and true to God, He will be faithful to purifiy them.
 
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Stinker

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There may be some doctrines in the church that a number of members may question. However, if these are the last days, and I believe they are for the U.S., does any Adventist believe that a person is saved who denies the weekly Sabbath after having been shown it is truth?
 
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reddogs

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There may be some doctrines in the church that a number of members may question. However, if these are the last days, and I believe they are for the U.S., does any Adventist believe that a person is saved who denies the weekly Sabbath after having been shown it is truth?

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Let's just say I rather be entering the gates with assurance than thinking maybe breaking the commandments wasnt such a good deal as I look at the lake of fire...........:doh:
 
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