Archdiocese of Detroit: Parishes must cease Traditional Latin Mass celebrations by July 1

[JimR-OCDS]

If it wasn’t a ‘scheduled mass’ how did they know when to arrive at the mass? Was it a ‘flash mass’ where they just all showed up in response to some spontaneous text message? If indeed it was scheduled, which it had to be if it wasn’t a spontaneous flash mass, your pastor imprudently scheduled it. And you blame the TLM. And those five parishioners. That’s OK. Everybody needs somebody to blame I guess.

It was a scheduled TLM Mass, not a parish scheduled Mass for the parish, is what I meant.

The TLM was forced onto the parish by Pope Benedict's Moto Proprio Summorum Pontificum.
The local Bishops lost their authority on when and where the TLM could be said. As a result,
a small handful of parishioners asked for the TLM which the pastor had to go to the Bishop
to get a qualified priest who was willing to have the TLM. Losing their authority on the issue
in their dioceses was the biggest complaint the Bishops had against the TLM.

Anyway, that was about 17 years ago, and it only lasted a few years before the priest
was defrocked and convicted of embezzling funds.

If you want to keep arguing over this, do it with someone else. We both have to
agree to disagree.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It was a scheduled TLM Mass, not a parish scheduled Mass for the parish, is what I meant.

Except there were those five (or more) parish members who actually asked for it.

If you want to keep arguing over this, do it with someone else. We both have to
agree to disagree.

I'd be happy not to argue with you.

 

[JSRG]

It seems to me that, if the problem is that having The Latin Mass makes too many people come from out of town or out of state... that making the Latin Mass more available would stop that problem, given that they wouldn't have to be traveling so far for it.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

It seems to me that, if the problem is that having The Latin Mass makes too many people come from out of town or out of state... that making the Latin Mass more available would stop that problem, given that they wouldn't have to be traveling so far for it.

The underlying problem is the lack of priests trained/willing to actually perform a TLM.

Look, as a practical matter it's been obsolete for, what, 4 generations now ?

It's just not something that can be commonly found.

Further,

it's not commonly requested. Outside the odd parish here and there, it just isn't something the laity out in the world really wants.

Social Media and the global reach of the interwebs gives it an outsized appearance.

 

[mourningdove~]

It seems to me that, if the problem is that having The Latin Mass makes too many people come from out of town or out of state... that making the Latin Mass more available would stop that problem, given that they wouldn't have to be traveling so far for it.

Makes good sense to me!

All this about the TLM is getting very interesting to watch.
It is like the TLM just 'won't go away'!
Will the Mass of the Ages continue in some form, or will the modernists succeed in shutting it down?
That seems to be the battle we find ourselves in.
Many of us see it more clearly now.

I had thought with the next pope that we would get this matter settled, one way or another.
TLM ... yes, or no.
And I've been preparing to accept the no.
But some Trads have been talking differently this week.
And they are prepared to continue the battle to save the TLM, no matter who the next pope is.

So, I guess we'd better keep our seat belts buckled ...
this issue isn't going away anytime soon.

 

[mourningdove~]

Archdiocese of Detroit: Parishes must cease Traditional Latin Mass celebrations by July 1​

What is bizarre to me about this ^ ....
is that Detroit repeatedly finds itself on the list of worst cities in America to live in.

So here we have devout persons in the Detroit Archdiocese wanting to attend the TLM ...
and their Archbishop is shutting it down.

How do cities like Detroit ever get revived, when even the TLM isn't allowed there???

 

[mourningdove~]

I'd be happy not to argue with you.

(Generally speaking ... )

We here do need to not argue ...
we need to not name call and insult one another ...
because ...
until the Traditional forum is reopened ...
we do need to get along with one another!

 

[Gnarwhal]

Archbishop Edward Weisenburger of Detroit announced Wednesday that parish churches in the archdiocese that offer the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) will be unable to do so after July 1, citing the Vatican’s 2023 clarification that diocesan bishops do not possess the authority to allow the TLM to be celebrated in an existing parish church.

A prominent Detroit shrine will still be able to offer the TLM, however, and Weisenburger said he intends to identify at least four non-parish locations in the archdiocese where the TLM can be celebrated.

In an April 16 announcement, the archdiocese said Weisenburger, who was appointed in February and newly installed as archbishop last month, recently told his priests that he is unable to renew the prior permissions given to parish churches to celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass, and thus those permissions will expire on July 1.

At issue is Pope Francis’ consequential apostolic letter Traditionis Custodes, issued in July 2021. Among other provisions, the letter directed bishops to designate one or more locations in which priests can celebrate the TLM but specified that those locations could not be within an existing parish church.

Continued below.

Archdiocese of Detroit: Parishes must cease TLM celebrations by July 1

Archbishop Edward Weisenburger of Detroit announced Wednesday that parish churches in the archdiocese that offer the Traditional Latin Mass will be unable to do so after July 1.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

I find the timing of that peculiar, cause if we get a Leo XIV or even another Benedict then the likelihood's pretty high that TC will be rolled back. So for the Bishop to do this when it could be reversed relatively soon makes it seem like either an empty gesture playing for some particular crowd or he knows something we don't (like, and I shudder to think, Parolin, Zuppi, Tagle, Turkson, or Hollerich are gonna be Francis II).

The TLM upsets parish life because in parishes like my former parish, it's a minority of parishioners who requested it, but
it's attended by a majority of people who come from outside of the parish and even the dioceses. The parishioners trying
to attend their scheduled Mass have to deal with a parking lot full of TLM attendees and other issues. This was a problem
throughout the US as the Bishops complained to the Vatican about the disruption. Keep in mind that the Novus Ordo is
the ordinary, and the TLM is the extraordinary. This means that presidence is given to the ordinary format, the NO and not
the extraordinary.

That was absolutely not a problem throughout the US and it borders on calumny to say so. Of the six parishes I've been to with Latin Masses over the past eight years (2 here in CA, 1 in DC, 1 in VA, and 2 in NY), exactly zero of them had such conflicts. There were no logistical problems and the Latin Masses had at least a 1hr buffer on either end, so there's no way TLM goers were taking up parking or pews. The attendees also integrated perfectly with the rest of the parish: the trad moms took their babies to playgroups with the NO moms, the trad husbands belonged to the same knights councils as the NO husbands. There is no "us and them" on the ground. That false adversarialism is just conjured up by people who want to vilify the TLM and make it seem like the fountainhead of strife in the Church when you, me, God, and everyone knows that's a lie.

Part of the problem is people on the internet, on both sides. Trads and modernists alike who are too mouthy and get paid to stir the pot with controversy. Remove them from the equation and what you're left with is simply a bunch of Catholics happy to coexist with each other as a parish family and attend the Mass they prefer. If I still had a TLM at my parish I'd move heaven and earth to attend it, but it wouldn't change my relationship with my friends and fellow parishioners, it wouldn't change my obligations as a catechist or who I teach with. Neither it, nor anyone who attends would disrupt the parish life because they're already integrated into it. Like so many other parishes.

 

[JSRG]

I find the timing of that peculiar, cause if we get a Leo XIV or even another Benedict then the likelihood's pretty high that TC will be rolled back. So for the Bishop to do this when it could be reversed relatively soon makes it seem like either an empty gesture playing for some particular crowd or he knows something we don't (like, and I shudder to think, Parolin, Zuppi, Tagle, Turkson, or Hollerich are gonna be Francis II).

The others I can understand thinking they might be Francis II (figuratively or literally), but it confuses me to see Turkson in that list.

It is a Leo XIV, though.

 

[fide]

Yeah, ok.

Chevy, I'm responding to your post but it's about everyone on this thread basically presenting the same position you are (which as about four other people)

You know who you are....

Anyway:

What Jim here is too nice to say and what you are being (imho) intentionally obtuse about is this: It's not the cars, or the events, or the schedule,

It's about the entitled, uppity, demanding, generally "holier than YOU, you NO fatherless sons" PEOPLE, in the cars, coming to your parish, eating your donuts, insulting your non-Catholic neighbors (who these parishes have to actually, you know, live with), thinking that they should have automatic rights to be on the church board, have access to the parish money and just generally acting like you don't matter -

- BECAUSE -

(I'm sorry to have to say this)

The TLM has been and is being used as a wedge between Catholics or various viewpoints

(...and I should get a medal for phasing this in a way that biases neither side).

This was the fear of Paul, JP II and Francis - all of whom took steps to try to interdict this.

Benny, of course, LOVED him some wedge (but I won't annoy anyone further on the point)

That's the problem with the TLM as it is practiced by the laity now (well, since the late '60s actually)

Nothing wrong with the TLM per se, just the way the TLM is used.

Thems the facts, Jack.

Don't like 'em?

Well, fortunately, we' live (and post) in a facts free environment. So ignore them if you want.

But don't come in here are beat around the bush like I'm just fell off the cabbage truck.

I mean, I just did,

But most of that is alcohol related.

There is no peace, no compromise, no "can't we all just get along?" between Christ and the world.

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
Mat 10:36 and a man's foes will be those of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
Mat 10:38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.

Read carefully the letters to the seven churches in Rev. 2 and 3. See how many of them had to deal with false teachers - some even calling themselves apostles but were not. Several had within them those who led other Catholics to eat food sacrificed to idols and practice immorality. One church was told "you have the name of being alive, and you are dead". Another, "you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing; not knowing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked."

My point is simply this: A faithful Catholic ought not expect to be loved and cherished by others, because some will hate anyone who loves God whole-heartedly and seeks to worship Him in Spirit and Truth. And those who hate God and any who love Him can be found anywhere men can be found. Anywhere.