"appointed to die once" and "the second death"

[Ripheus27]

If the second death is the same kind of thing as the first one, then wouldn't we be appointed to die, face judgment, and then, if judged guilty, die again?

 

[jacobs well]

If the second death is the same kind of thing as the first one, then wouldn't we be appointed to die, face judgment, and then, if judged guilty, die again?

I understand it as the body only dies (our physical self) and the soul sleeps
After the resurrection our body and soul will be subject to eternal death.
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body..." - Matthew 10:28
This is the second death-the permanent one

 

[Ripheus27]

How does our soul "sleep" if it faces judgment after it dies the first time? Is there a gap between the sleeping and the judging?

 

[jacobs well]

How does our soul "sleep" if it faces judgment after it dies the first time? Is there a gap between the sleeping and the judging?

Yes-the gap is between the death of a human being and the return of Jesus Christ (the second coming) who has the power to resurrect all of mankind-first those in Christ to immortal spiritual beings- Revelation 20- and then everybody else who ever lived, to a mortal life to be exposed to God's Laws, afterwards a judgment and those who reject God's way will be condemned to eternal death.
This will support Ezekiel 18:20 - " the soul that sins will die"
in our physical life, when we sin we do not die. That can only happen after our resurrection back to life and our refusal to obey God and ultimately leading to everlasting destruction of the soul-our human spirit.

I'm away for the rest of the day-so will respond later about any comments.
So long,
jw

 

[Hillsage]

After the resurrection our body and soul will be subject to eternal death.

if that were true then "the last enemy to be destroyed is death", would not be true.

 

[jacobs well]

if that were true then "the last enemy to be destroyed is death", would not be true.

Rev 20:15- ' Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire " This is the second death. The lake of fire kills both the soul and body.

Rev 21-we now see a new earth with the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from heaven.
Now at this time, there shall be no more death -verse 4- all remaining humans who have obeyed God are transformed into spiritual beings.
Satan is gone, the evil ones are gone, and our last enemy " death " is gone.
This is the promise fulfilled from the beginning of creation.
Earlier, those saints in Christ, were resurrected in the first resurrection-Rev20
after the 1,000 year period, all of the rest of mankind were resurrected to be given a chance at salvation.
Rev 21 shows us the results of God's great plan.

 

[Hillsage]

Rev 20:15- ' Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire " This is the second death. The lake of fire kills both the soul and body.

That's not consistent. You body was already dead and in the grave, (which is the bibles definition of body death (1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?). And this is true for all but those 'few' who are alive at 'the end'...right? And your soul was "dead in trespasses and sins" before you were saved and received forgiveness...right? So the "second death" can't be the death of two dead things. I believe God's victory is the 'end of death' or the 'death of death'. Scripture plainly tells us how death dies

1 Corinthians 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, AND the mortal puts on immortality, THEN shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

Rev 21-we now see a new earth with the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from heaven.
Now at this time, there shall be no more death -verse 4- all remaining humans who have obeyed God are transformed into spiritual beings.
Satan is gone, the evil ones are gone, and our last enemy " death " is gone.
This is the promise fulfilled from the beginning of creation.
Earlier, those saints in Christ, were resurrected in the first resurrection-Rev20
after the 1,000 year period, all of the rest of mankind were resurrected to be given a chance at salvation.
Rev 21 shows us the results of God's great plan.

Great quote. You do realize that it is the LAST chapter of the book of the Revelation...right? But what you fail to see or quote, in the very context of your scriptures above, is a hugely important omission IMO.

REV 21:5 And he who sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Also he said, "Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true."

I know, ALL only means ALL to us UR believers , but I do believe 'that' way. Therefore I have to believe His 'words' "ALL" above, trump your words which limit it to 'a few' IMO.

 

[Der Alte]

Rev 20:15- ' Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire " This is the second death. The lake of fire kills both the soul and body.

Rev 21-we now see a new earth with the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from heaven.
Now at this time, there shall be no more death -verse 4- all remaining humans who have obeyed God are transformed into spiritual beings.
Satan is gone, the evil ones are gone, and our last enemy " death " is gone.
This is the promise fulfilled from the beginning of creation.
Earlier, those saints in Christ, were resurrected in the first resurrection-Rev20
after the 1,000 year period, all of the rest of mankind were resurrected to be given a chance at salvation.
Rev 21 shows us the results of God's great plan.

Only one teensy problem, you have inserted a phrase that is not supported by any scripture. Your penultimate sentence should read "after the 1,000 year period, all of the rest of mankind were resurrected to appear before the great white throne and those on Jesus left hand will go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matt 25:31-32, 46.

Your post also contradicts Heb 9:27.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:​

This verse says after death the judgment, not "a second chance."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Only one teensy problem, you have inserted a phrase that is not supported by any scripture. Your penultimate sentence should read "after the 1,000 year period, all of the rest of mankind were resurrected to appear before the great white throne and those on Jesus left hand will go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matt 25:31-32, 46.

Your post also contradicts Heb 9:27.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:​

This verse says after death the judgment, not "a second chance."

This refers to a judgment period, not a condemnation, thought to be 100 years. And actually this is the first chance for those resurrected. There are no second chances.

 

[Hillsage]

There are no second chances.

I was hoping someone would know that being "called/pre-destined/ordained to believe/chosen/elected" MIGHT just mean your 'first chance'.

JOB 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Some simply were never appointed to be called in this age....IMO.

 

[Der Alte]

This refers to a judgment period, not a condemnation, thought to be 100 years. And actually this is the first chance for those resurrected. There are no second chances.

A "judgement period" is not supported by Matt 25:31-46. "Thought to be 100 years" by whom and on what scriptural evidence? Can you provide scriptural evidence for a "first chance" at salvation after resurrection and judgment?

 

[brixken7]

Only one teensy problem, you have inserted a phrase that is not supported by any scripture. Your penultimate sentence should read "after the 1,000 year period, all of the rest of mankind were resurrected to appear before the great white throne and those on Jesus left hand will go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matt 25:31-32, 46.

Your post also contradicts Heb 9:27. Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: This verse says after death the judgment, not "a second chance."

...................................................

Der Alter....The verses you quoted (Matthew 25:31-32, 46), are plainly dealing with Christ's Second Coming -- NOT the Great White Throne judgment, which is at least 1000 years after Christ's appearance on this earth. Secondly, you're overlooking the biblical PURPOSE of judgment, which is twofold:

1) "that all men should honor the Son" (John 5:22-23).
AND so that...

2) "the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness" (Isaiah 26:9).
.....................

And along with Christ....
"The saints shall judge the world" (I Corinthians 6:2)!

 

[Der Alte]

Der Alter....The verses you quoted (Matthew 25:31-32, 46), are plainly dealing with Christ's Second Coming -- NOT the Great White Throne judgment, which is at least 1000 years after Christ's appearance on this earth. Secondly, you're overlooking the biblical PURPOSE of judgment, which is twofold:

1) "that all men should honor the Son" (John 5:22-23).
AND so that...

2) "the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness" (Isaiah 26:9).
.....................

And along with Christ....
"The saints shall judge the world" (I Corinthians 6:2)!

Not everybody is a saint, so not everybody shall judge the world. I see a lot of assertions but no scripture supporting them. How many "judgments" does scripture speak of, anyway? Anybody can prove almost anything by quoting out-of-context proof texts. A verse here and a verse there e.g. John 5:22-23, Isaiah 26:9, I Corinthians 6:2.

The word translated "men should honor" is a present, active, subjunctive. The subjunctive is the case of probability and possibility.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A "judgement period" is not supported by Matt 25:31-46.

Matthew 25 describes the judgment of the church at Christ's return.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17

Can you provide scriptural evidence for a "first chance" at salvation after resurrection and judgment?

Sure. Ezekiel 37.

11 "Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord."[/I]

 

[Der Alte]

Matthew 25 describes the judgment of the church at Christ's return.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17

This is known as proof-texting. A verse here and a verse there and anybody can "prove" almost anything. You might have noticed that your proof text 1 pet 4;17 is present tense "the time is come that judgment must begin..." Not "the time will come..."

Sure. Ezekiel 37.

11 "Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord."

This proof text says nothing about being given a first chance after death. And if you read it in context you will find that it is a prophecy of God reuniting the divided kingdoms Israel and Judah, in the land of Israel, Ezek 37:15-28.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is known as proof-texting. A verse here and a verse there and anybody can "prove" almost anything. You might have noticed that your proof text 1 pet 4;17 is present tense "the time is come that judgment must begin..." Not "the time will come..."

What this means is that this is the only chance for the church; no second chances.

This proof text says nothing about being given a first chance after death. And if you read it in context you will find that it is a prophecy of God reuniting the divided kingdoms Israel and Judah, in the land of Israel, Ezek 37:15-28.

This takes place during the millennial rule of Christ. Israel will be resurrected physically and given the holy spirit, and their first chance for salvation. This is the "thus all Israel" that Paul said "will be saved".

 

[jacobs well]

That's not consistent. You body was already dead and in the grave, (which is the bibles definition of body death (1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?). And this is true for all but those 'few' who are alive at 'the end'...right? And your soul was "dead in trespasses and sins" before you were saved and received forgiveness...right? So the "second death" can't be the death of two dead things. I believe God's victory is the 'end of death' or the 'death of death'. Scripture plainly tells us how death dies

1 Corinthians 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, AND the mortal puts on immortality, THEN shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

Great quote. You do realize that it is the LAST chapter of the book of the Revelation...right? But what you fail to see or quote, in the very context of your scriptures above, is a hugely important omission IMO.

REV 21:5 And he who sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Also he said, "Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true."

I know, ALL only means ALL to us UR believers , but I do believe 'that' way. Therefore I have to believe His 'words' "ALL" above, trump your words which limit it to 'a few' IMO.

In Rev 20:5-in the first part of the verse " But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished"- (this is a parenthetical statement)This is the second resurrection.
The second sentence in verse 5 " this is the first resurrection " is referring back to verse 4 describing those in Christ rising to reign with Christ a thousand years.
The second resurrection is a general resurrection of all the human beings who ever lived and the majority will not have know the name of Jesus Christ-so this will be their first chance at salvation. their bodies will be raised from the first death.
They will be judged over a one hundred-year lifespan ( Isaiah 65)
Judging does not mean sentencing or condemnation. It is a long ongoing process. Evidence is gathered and evaluated and leads to a decision and sentence after the judgment period.
They will be judged by the observing of God's laws and commandments.

 

[jacobs well]

Only one teensy problem, you have inserted a phrase that is not supported by any scripture. Your penultimate sentence should read "after the 1,000 year period, all of the rest of mankind were resurrected to appear before the great white throne and those on Jesus left hand will go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matt 25:31-32, 46.

Your post also contradicts Heb 9:27.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:​

This verse says after death the judgment, not "a second chance."

The second resurrection (after the 1,000 yrs) will be the majority of mankind's first chance at salvation. those in the 2nd resurrection will be subject to the judgment process during a 100 year span -Isaiah 65 and eventually sentenced to the 2nd death (the soul) or granted eternal life in God's Kingdom

the first resurrection occurs at the second coming of Christ just before the beginning of the 1,000 year period -those who were in Christ are now transformed into spiritual beings (salvation) and will reign with Him for the 1,000 year period.

 

[brixken7]

The second resurrection (after the 1,000 yrs) will be the majority of mankind's first chance at salvation. those in the 2nd resurrection will be subject to the judgment process during a 100 year span -Isaiah 65 and eventually sentenced to the 2nd death (the soul) or granted eternal life in God's Kingdom. The first resurrection occurs at the second coming of Christ just before the beginning of the 1,000 year period -those who were in Christ are now transformed into spiritual beings (salvation) and will reign with Him for the 1,000 year period.

....................................

"The second resurrection (after the 1,000 yrs) will be the majority of mankind's first chance at salvation." --jacobs well
....

"First chance"?

Are you saying that our salvation is NOT up to God, but a matter of "chance" (or our so-called free will, maybe)? I think it would be more accurate to speak of it as the Third phase of God's plan: that being to first save His saints -- then the world. But His plan begins, of course, with Christ's sacrifice (Phase One). I think that is essentially what we read in I Corinthians 15:23-28).

 

[jacobs well]

....................................

"The second resurrection (after the 1,000 yrs) will be the majority of mankind's first chance at salvation." --jacobs well
....

"First chance"?

Are you saying that our salvation is NOT up to God, but a matter of "chance" (or our so-called free will, maybe)? I think it would be more accurate to speak of it as the Third phase of God's plan: that being to first save His saints -- then the world. But His plan begins, of course, with Christ's sacrifice (Phase One). I think that is essentially what we read in I Corinthians 15:23-28).

Jesus will be the Judge sitting in the Great White throne to determine who from the second resurrection obeyed Him and His Laws during the judgment period and they will be tried according to their works-Rev 20:12,13.
Why have a great white throne judgment if there is nothing that the rest of the dead (unbelievers) have to do?
We are being judged in a similar way today to qualify to be in the first resurrection (those in Christ).