Apostates and why they apostasize

[skylark1]

I think everyone here, whether orthodox or unorthodox, agrees with that statement, Daneel. The point I was making is that the OC's have stated here, many times, even today, that the UC does not know the true Christ, and so therefore we will not be saved.

And some have said that they believe that some UC are saved, or that it is not their place to judge who is and who isn't saved. But people tend not to remember those kinds of comments.

 

[A New Dawn]

I hear UTs making these complaints, but for some reason unknown to me, they don't post links to the comments they claim have been made.

I can post names and links, however, is that really what everyone wants? Because all that will do is start all-out war. I have reported the comments, which I believe is the right way to handle it, and hopefully they will be taken care of that way, but they are still being made.

 

[A New Dawn]

And some have said that they believe that some UC are saved, or that it is not their place to judge who is and who isn't saved. But people tend not to remember those kinds of comments.

I have edited my statement. And that is not true, I remember each one who remarked that it is not their place to judge another's salvation.

 

[Cassiopeia]

You have had orthodox Christians tell you that you HAD to be baptized by their particular denomination to spend eternity with God? I know that the LDS believe that, but as a Evangelical Christian, I do not, nor do I believe that it is supported by scripture.

Anyway, that wasn't the question, was it? Would this be considered benefical for ecumenical discourse? "Baptism performed by anyone other than an authorized member of the Church is meaningless, and perhaps worse, it is counterfeit."

Isn't that what the UTs want to happen here?

Sven

I was told when I was 13 by the first Christian Church that because I had been baptised as an infant in the Catholic Church through annointing that I had to be REbaptised if I wanted to be saved. I was also told that by the Evangelical Free Church And the Penticostal Light House Church. I didn't agree with them so I refused. Does this mean I am not saved? Do you recognize baptism in the Catholic Church as valid? Do you recognize baptism in the LDS church as valid?

Casi

 

[Cassiopeia]

Just a note here. Not all apostates stay "ex mormons". I know of two that are returning or have since returned to the LDS faith. Both apostatized for various reasons, and both came back. Just a note some early LDS leaders also apostatized and later returned to the LDS Church. Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris are some examples.

Ya know I luv ya to bits Zippy but don't look for this "apostate" to return.

Casi (happy in her own solitary worship)

 

[skylark1]

I was told when I was 13 by the first Christian Church that because I had been baptised as an infant in the Catholic Church through annointing that I had to be REbaptised if I wanted to be saved. I was also told that by the Evangelical Free Church And the Penticostal Light House Church. I didn't agree with them so I refused. Does this mean I am not saved? Do you recognize baptism in the Catholic Church as valid? Do you recognize baptism in the LDS church as valid?

Many churches that use the name First Christian Church are part of the Disciples of Christ denomination. Although they practice baptism by immersion, they accept persons from other denominations without requiring rebaptism.
http://www.disciplesofchrist.com/

I think that some churches migh not accept infant baptism though.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Many churches that use the name First Christian Church are part of the Disciples of Christ denomination. Although they practice baptism by immersion, they accept persons from other denominations without requiring rebaptism.
http://www.disciplesofchrist.com/

Well they didn't back in 1971 in Rapid City, South Dakota, when my mother came unglued because I had gone to a church came with the First Christian Church and I came back upset because they said I wasn't saved and had to be rebaptized and I knew she would never agree to it. I didn't know what to believe. I believe I shared this before. When my mother approached the house of the pastor to go talk to him, she heard his wife speaking about me on the phone saying how it was a sin for my mother to not permit me to be rebaptised properly by immersion. My mother had a strict rule that to change churches we had to be 18. She came home so upset and tearful that I wasn't allowed to go back there.

Have they since changed this policy? Or do you disbelieve me?

Casi

 

[gort]

I think everyone here, whether orthodox or unorthodox, agrees with that statement, Daneel. The point I was making is that many OC's have stated here, many times, even today, that the UC does not know the true Christ, and so therefore we will not be saved.

And Sven, I agree with you, that that statement is not conducive to "ecumenical discourse", however, equally offensive statements have been made about other religions/sects/cults by OC, which, also, do not pave the way for "ecumenical discourse". I have been told that if I were really Christian that I would rise above these petty barbs and add worthwhile dialogue to the conversation. Of course, I was told that because I am unorthodox, but what interests me is that the same admonishment is not given to the "real" Christians. It is OK for them to cast barbs, but we have to rise above it in order to "prove" we are really Christian.

My error. I made my statement only upon this part of your statement:

Y'all claim that orthodoxy is the only way to heaven, so what's the diff?

I would make other comments, but I'm having a wonderful doxological bit of a time here.



<><

 

[Zippythepinhead]

Ya know I luv ya to bits Zippy but don't look for this "apostate" to return.

Casi (happy in her own solitary worship)

Like I have said before Casi, I have no fears about you returning Some things I already have a good idea about how they will turn out

 

[Rescued One]

I can post names and links, however, is that really what everyone wants? Because all that will do is start all-out war. I have reported the comments, which I believe is the right way to handle it, and hopefully they will be taken care of that way, but they are still being made.

I'm not interested in a war. I'd like to see what I've missed.

 

[A New Dawn]

Casi, I believe that the time you are referring back to is just around the time (maybe just after) Vatican II. And it wasn't till after then, and the time it took for the decisions to trickle down, that baptisms between sects of Christianity were accepted. Before Vatican II, while I know Protestant churches accepted each other's baptisms (I was baptized Lutheran, but attended the local Presbyterian church for many years), the Protestants and Catholics did not accept each other's. And in some places, still don't.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Like I have said before Casi, I have no fears about you returning Some things I already have a good idea about how they will turn out

And what is that supposed to mean?

 

[A New Dawn]

I would make other comments, but I'm having a wonderful doxological bit of a time here.



<><

I am intrigued to know what a "wonderful doxological bit of a time" is. Can you share?

 

[Cassiopeia]

Casi, I believe that the time you are referring back to is just around the time (maybe just after) Vatican II. And it wasn't till after then, and the time it took for the decisions to trickle down, that baptisms between sects of Christianity were accepted. Before Vatican II, while I know Protestant churches accepted each other's baptisms (I was baptized Lutheran, but attended the local Presbyterian church for many years), the Protestants and Catholics did not accept each other's. And in some places, still don't.

I didn't know that Jenda...thanks for the info

Casi

 

[gort]

And what is that supposed to mean?

I'm thinkin "spirit prison" and "makin gravel out of big rock" will do wonders for your eyesight...

<><

 

[Cassiopeia]

I'm thinkin "spirit prison" and "makin gravel out of big rock" will do wonders for your eyesight...

<><

ppfffft...I am not overly concerned about where I am headed. I just keep my head down and plod along

 

[skylark1]

Well they didn't back in 1971 in Rapid City, South Dakota, when my mother came unglued because I had gone to a church came with the First Christian Church and I came back upset because they said I wasn't saved and had to be rebaptized and I knew she would never agree to it. I didn't know what to believe. I believe I shared this before. When my mother approached the house of the pastor to go talk to him, she heard his wife speaking about me on the phone saying how it was a sin for my mother to not permit me to be rebaptised properly by immersion. My mother had a strict rule that to change churches we had to be 18. She came home so upset and tearful that I wasn't allowed to go back there.

Have they since changed this policy? Or do you disbelieve me?

I wrote that if that First Christian Church was part of the Disciples of Christ denomination ... There are also some independent Christian Churches that sometimes use the name First Christian. If it was a DoC church, they were not following the denominations's beliefs, because that was been standard policy even then. It sounds like it had more to do with belief that baptism should be by immersion, than which the person was baptised in.

 

[Rescued One]

Well they didn't back in 1971 in Rapid City, South Dakota, when my mother came unglued because I had gone to a church came with the First Christian Church and I came back upset because they said I wasn't saved and had to be rebaptized and I knew she would never agree to it. I didn't know what to believe. I believe I shared this before. When my mother approached the house of the pastor to go talk to him, she heard his wife speaking about me on the phone saying how it was a sin for my mother to not permit me to be rebaptised properly by immersion. My mother had a strict rule that to change churches we had to be 18. She came home so upset and tearful that I wasn't allowed to go back there.

Have they since changed this policy? Or do you disbelieve me?

Casi

Baptism

Baptism in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) takes water -- plenty of water. Disciples practice "baptism by immersion" because it mirrors New Testament practice. In addition, Disciples see the use of the specific form of baptism, immersion, as powerfully symbolic. It recalls Jesus' own baptism; it acts out dying with Christ and emerging to new life; it is a "putting on" of Christ. The person being baptized experiences the firm support of the community -- of the Body of Christ -- in the arms and hands of the minister, feels the plunge of commitment, and bursts into new life with the sound and feel of rushing water. At the conclusion of a Disciples baptism, the congregation most often is asked to pledge support of the newly-baptized person in her or his faith journey.

Disciples typically are baptized when they can express as a personal choice their desire to become part of the Body of Christ. Disciples call the practice "believer's baptism." As the believer is immersed, she is baptized in the name of the Trinity. It is customary for the minister to use the words "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Infant dedication is a common Disciples tradition. A baby is brought into the environment of a loving church where parents and congregation pledge themselves to nurture the child in the love of Christ. An infant so dedicated "confirms" that dedication with a faith-response usually during the early teenage years, about the same time when many Disciples are baptized.

Most Disciples today recognize other forms of baptism as valid. A person baptized in another Christian tradition wishing to join a Disciples congregation is simply asked: "Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and proclaim him Lord and Savior of your life?" The person who answers, "I do," is welcomed into the congregation.
http://www.disciples.org/discover/baptism.htm

I don't think they would accept a Mormon baptism because it wouldn't be considered another Christian church, but I'm not sure. I've only attended a Disciples of Christ church once.

First Christian Church, Huntsville, Alabama

Believer's Baptism By Immersion

From the earliest traditions of the church, we demonstrate our commitment to God by dramatic action, letting the waters of our baptism give witness to new life in Christ as we receive the gift of God’s grace upon us.

http://www.fcc-hsv.org/about_us/beliefs.html#Believers Baptism By Immersion

 

[Cassiopeia]

I don't think they would accept a Mormon baptism because it wouldn't be considered another Christian church, but I'm not sure. I've only attended a Disciples of Christ church once.

Yeah I was wondering about that to Sven but in my post to Skylark1 it was only about those denominations I posted to her.

I haven't been to any of them in years.

 

[Swart]

I am intrigued to know what a "wonderful doxological bit of a time" is. Can you share?

dox·ol·o·gy
n. pl. dox·ol·o·gies An expression of praise to God, especially a short hymn sung as part of a Christian worship service.

Once again R. Daneel is challenging our linguistic erudition with hyperbole.