• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Apostasy?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ratiocination

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2004
978
31
London
✟4,702.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
Sven1967 said:
You didn't answer if you believed that police officers were apostate. Also, please explain to me how nations can remain in authority without at least the ability to defend one's self?
:confused:
Here's the deal; Defend your nation right up untill the point you conflict with Gods law, which is not to kill another man. The same would apply to the police department, do your job only within the framework of God's law.

Could you now answer my question?
 
Upvote 0

RufustheRed

Disabled Veteran
Jan 29, 2004
2,561
60
✟25,582.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Ratiocination said:
Do you think that certain verses negate or nullify other verses

No, I do not. Does that answer your question? I'm trying to figure out which verse or verses you believe prove that I am an apostate because I served in the Army.

Sven
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zeddicus
Upvote 0

Ratiocination

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2004
978
31
London
✟4,702.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
Sven1967 said:
No, I do not. Does that answer you question? I'm trying to figure out which verse or verses you believe prove that I am an apostate because I served in the Army.

Sven
I'm not saying you are apostate because you served in the army, an apostate is determined by their present attitude of God's law. So if you now believe that serving in the army and defending your nation to the point of taking another mans life is ok, then that is apostasy. - Matthew 22:39.
 
Upvote 0

Wrigley

Senior Veteran
Mar 24, 2003
4,938
178
57
Michigan
Visit site
✟28,512.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Ratiocination said:
I'm not saying you are apostate because you served in the army, an apostate is determined by their present attitude of God's law. So if you now believe that serving in the army and defending your nation to the point of taking another mans life is ok, then that is apostasy. - Matthew 22:39.
Is there another purpose for the armed forces but to kill and break things?
 
Upvote 0

RufustheRed

Disabled Veteran
Jan 29, 2004
2,561
60
✟25,582.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Ratiocination said:
I'm not saying you are apostate because you served in the army, an apostate is determined by their present attitude of God's law. So if you now believe that serving in the army and defending your nation to the point of taking another mans life is ok, then that is apostasy. - Matthew 22:39.

Aren't you glad that we aren't all speaking German and exterminating the Jewish people?

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
 
Upvote 0

Ratiocination

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2004
978
31
London
✟4,702.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
Wrigley said:
Is there another purpose for the armed forces but to kill and break things?
Not really, which is why is used "served" in a past tense, no person can judge on the basis of what has been "done", but only on the basis of how that person feels about it now, otherwise we demolish the whole forgivness thing.
 
Upvote 0

Lifesaver

Fides et Ratio
Jan 8, 2004
6,855
288
40
São Paulo, Brazil
✟31,097.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
A little historical study shows that there was no apostasy, but an unbroken continuity from St. Peter to John Paul II.

Joseph Smith invented it completely, so that he'd have some kind of basis for his new church. It's all lies, though, unsupported by any kind of scriptural or non-scriptural evidence.
 
Upvote 0

Ratiocination

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2004
978
31
London
✟4,702.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
Sven1967 said:
Aren't you glad that we aren't all speaking German and exterminating the Jewish people?

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Amen.
So should we die to save a nazi state? Or an American? Or British? does this verse suggest any of these? Of course not, we should die in Christ, upholding his values for our brothers, not a "democracy" or "communist state".
Also if I was a true Christian living in Nazi America in 2004 why would I what to kill anyone? Jesus said not to, period! No exeptions. Do you not think that God can save us from that?
 
Upvote 0

happyinhisgrace

Blessed Trinity
Jan 2, 2004
3,992
56
52
✟26,996.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ratiocination said:
I'm not saying you are apostate because you served in the army, an apostate is determined by their present attitude of God's law. So if you now believe that serving in the army and defending your nation to the point of taking another mans life is ok, then that is apostasy. - Matthew 22:39.
It will always be that there will be those who are willing to fight and die for the rights and freedoms of other man and those who are more than happy to just sit back and enjoy those rights while all the time comdemning the very men and women who died so the ungrateful could have their rights.
 
Upvote 0

CrownCaster

FlyFishers Of Men
Aug 18, 2004
1,603
36
55
✟1,995.00
Faith
Christian
fatboys said:
FB: Do you feel that the Jewish religion was in apostasy at the time of Christ?
No, the Jewish Religions was not in apostasy. In fact it was so strongly adhered to that it became the total focus of their lives instead of looking for Messiah and being able to identify Him when He came. They got so wrapped up in the ceremonies and outward actions (sound familiar?) that they were not aware when the point of what they were doing was fulfilled. No, the Religion was there. The law was never meant to save, only point people to the cross with humility understanding what salvation costs and how impossible it would be to get it without Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

CrownCaster

FlyFishers Of Men
Aug 18, 2004
1,603
36
55
✟1,995.00
Faith
Christian
Ratiocination said:
I'm not saying you are apostate because you served in the army, an apostate is determined by their present attitude of God's law. So if you now believe that serving in the army and defending your nation to the point of taking another mans life is ok, then that is apostasy. - Matthew 22:39.
You are way off base. The Bible does not say that it is NEVER appropriate to kill but only to kill for the purpose of killing, or to murder. There are many instances where war and death are commanded by God and to defend your family and your people is one of them. A police man must maintain order and sometimes that means pulling the trigger. God forbid one who has comes in here and reads your distorted view of it. God bless our troops for the terrible job they must do to protect innocent people from terror groups.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gort
Upvote 0

fatboys

Senior Veteran
Nov 18, 2003
9,231
280
72
✟68,575.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
CrownCaster said:
No, the Jewish Religions was not in apostasy. In fact it was so strongly adhered to that it became the total focus of their lives instead of looking for Messiah and being able to identify Him when He came. They got so wrapped up in the ceremonies and outward actions (sound familiar?) that they were not aware when the point of what they were doing was fulfilled. No, the Religion was there. The law was never meant to save, only point people to the cross with humility understanding what salvation costs and how impossible it would be to get it without Jesus.

FB: How closely did the Jewish religion resemble the ancient religion at the time of Moses.
 
Upvote 0

usetheforce

Active Member
Mar 16, 2004
301
6
✟475.00
Faith
CrownCaster said:
I would in turn ask you how closely you think mormonism resembles the early Christian Church and if you could show those things on here.

If you wish to learn Truth, go to the Professionals.
From the LDS perspective you can find lots of articles related to this subject at FAIR and FARMS for example online.
It would be even better to go to your local Deseret Books store or LDS related books store and get some of the books on the subject.
Because your simply asking something that is much to vast to post on a message board.
 
Upvote 0

Catholic Evangelist

Young-Earth Creationist
Aug 25, 2004
439
16
36
✟663.00
Faith
Catholic
If you wish to learn Truth, go to the Professionals.
From the LDS perspective you can find lots of articles related to this subject at FAIR and FARMS for example online.
It would be even better to go to your local Deseret Books store or LDS related books store and get some of the books on the subject.
Because your simply asking something that is much to vast to post on a message board.
Going to a mormon apolegetics website isnt going to give you the truth. Fair and Farms, in order to make it seem like the early church was LDS, has to twist the truth alot.

The best way to study the early church is to read the early church documents themselves. NOONE who has taken this objective way of discerning the church has come to the conclusion that it was LDS.
 
Upvote 0

usetheforce

Active Member
Mar 16, 2004
301
6
✟475.00
Faith
Funny, yet Christian Ministers and Scholars are joining the Church all the Time.
Clearly then they see something, as I did also.

By the way, we don't have to "twist" the truth, because the truth is right there in their own words.
Anti's however, twist LDS theology and history, so as to use truth to tell great lies all the time. In fact, so badly so that almost every word is a twisted misrepresentation.
And by the way, you falsely assume we "don't" read the early Church documents themselves. We most certainly do. Those of us who are scholar's and more intellectually inclinded read them ALL THE TIME.
But you people won't read hardly any of our material will you to find out the real truth of things, so you continue spouting your ignorance about us?
Too bad that you have no real Faith to step outside of your boxes.

By the way, let me give you the BIO of Stephen E. Robinson, from the book "Are Mormons Christians".

About the Author

Stephen E. Robinson is eminently qualified to write on the subject of Mormons and Christianity. He recieved a B.A. in English Literature and studied for a master's degree in Ancient Scripture at Brigham Young University. He recieved a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies from Duke University and is currently a professor of Religious Education at Brigham Young University.
The author has taught religion at Hampden-Sydney College (a Presbyterian-related school) and at Duke University and Lycoming College, he served simultaneously as chairman of that school's Religion Department and as Bishop of the LDS ward in Williamsport, Pennsylvania.
He is the best-selling author of Believing Christ and Following Christ. A previous publication, The Testament of Adam, was published by the Society of Biblical Literature, and his articles have appeared in the Revue de Qumran, Journal for the Study of Judaism, the Coptic Encyclopedia, The Anchor Bible Dictionary, and The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha.
The author and his wife, Janet Bown Robinson, are the parents of six children. The family resides in Provo, Utah.

This is the "common" type of Education of most LDS scholars.
Yet, you will find almost NONE Anti-Mormon writers that are so qualified.
That should give you a clue the level of professionalism involved.
Why do you think Evangelical scholars Mosser and Owen wrote that Evangelicals were loosing the battle and not knowing it?
It's because they themselves were really the only real professional scholars who have written anything on Mormonism compared to their beliefs.
Of course, I wouldn't necessarily consider them to be anti-mormon, because they are professionals that simply hold a different opinion and don't misrepresent LDS doctrine and history per-se as all others do.
 
Upvote 0

CrownCaster

FlyFishers Of Men
Aug 18, 2004
1,603
36
55
✟1,995.00
Faith
Christian
usetheforce said:
If you wish to learn Truth, go to the Professionals.
From the LDS perspective you can find lots of articles related to this subject at FAIR and FARMS for example online.
It would be even better to go to your local Deseret Books store or LDS related books store and get some of the books on the subject.
Because your simply asking something that is much to vast to post on a message board.
But I certainly was not asking you and would appreciate it if you would not respond. I have eliminated my interactions with you and wish to have none further. Furthermore, I have said it time and time again, I will not go to fair or farms for a scholarly look into mormonism. I once was one and can say from both ends of the coin that going to either of them is akin to asking farrakan to give me a scholarly look into the covenant of God given to Isaac.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.