Apostacy...

[StevenL]

Because we're not waiting for any "great falling away" and we're not waiting for any "False Christ." No "Antichrist" is going to Jerusalem to sit in any "temple of God" and declare that he's God.

The falling away from the original faith happened long ago. That's why we have the dead, useless, divided, weak, man-made thing called "church" today.

 

[Zadok7000]

Because we're not waiting for any "great falling away" and we're not waiting for any "False Christ."

Were Paul and Jesus lying?

No "Antichrist" is going to Jerusalem to sit in any "temple of God" and declare that he's God.

See post #8.

The falling away from the original faith happened long ago.

The subject of 2Thes. 2 is our gathering back to Christ at His 2nd coming...

 

[StevenL]

Were Paul and Jesus lying?



See post #8.



The subject of 2Thes. 2 is our gathering back to Christ at His 2nd coming...

No. Just because you've misconstrued and misplaced what Paul and Jesus said doesn't mean they were lying.

The apostasy has already taken place. There's really nothing to fall FROM in our day. The whole thing is leavened. This thing that everybody thinks is the "church" that Yeshua said He was going to build is a phony.....a counterfeit.....with a false "jesus", "spirit", and "gospel" already firmly entrenched therein.

 

[JuJube]

No. Just because you've misconstrued and misplaced what Paul and Jesus said doesn't mean they were lying.

The apostasy has already taken place. There's really nothing to fall FROM in our day. The whole thing is leavened. This thing that everybody thinks is the "church" that Yeshua said He was going to build is a phony.....a counterfeit.....with a false "jesus", "spirit", and "gospel" already firmly entrenched therein.

So, if this is true...who is it that Jesus will be returning for?

 

[Zadok7000]

No. Just because you've misconstrued and misplaced what Paul and Jesus said doesn't mean they were lying.

The apostasy has already taken place. There's really nothing to fall FROM in our day. The whole thing is leavened. This thing that everybody thinks is the "church" that Yeshua said He was going to build is a phony.....a counterfeit.....with a false "jesus", "spirit", and "gospel" already firmly entrenched therein.

The falling away/false christ/abomination of desolation are all given as signs SPECIFICALLY regarding Christ's Return. Do you dispute this?

 

[StevenL]

So, if this is true...who is it that Jesus will be returning for?

For His called-out ones, just like He said.

 

[StevenL]

The falling away/false christ/abomination of desolation are all given as signs SPECIFICALLY regarding Christ's Return. Do you dispute this?

I dispute the speculation that those things were spoken of in relation to a short period of time at the end of this age. Because they weren't.

 

[Zadok7000]

I dispute the speculation that those things were spoken of in relation to a short period of time at the end of this age. Because they weren't.

How could something be a "sign" of an event 2000+ years beforehand? It would be a sign of nothing.

 

[StevenL]

How could something be a "sign" of an event 2000+ years beforehand? It would be a sign of nothing.

They were tremendous signs for those who knew what they were seeing. The falling away has been a great sign for a long long time now......but each generation keeps "waiting" for it to happen.

 

[Zadok7000]

They were tremendous signs for those who knew what they were seeing. The falling away has been a great sign for a long long time now......but each generation keeps "waiting" for it to happen.

Exactly the reason why it has not yet occured. A sign of HIS RETURN is just that. If HE does not return, it is not the sign foretold.

 

[Parousia]

Were Paul and Jesus lying?



See post #8.



The subject of 2Thes. 2 is our gathering back to Christ at His 2nd coming...

Of course Paul and Jesus were not lying--but they were speaking of events that were to happen to THAT generation and not to any other!

That is the subject of 1 Cor. 15; 1 Thes. 4; and 2 Thes. 2--who is part of the "OUR" Paul is speaking of? He and his fellow first-century saints are the OUR. Pronouns may be small words but they are extremely significant! WE who are alive and remain; WE shall all be changed; OUR gathering together.

Did these words mean nothing to Paul and the other inspired writers of the NT? Why did he include himself and his fellow saints through his use of personal and possessive pronouns? Why did he not say THEY and THEIR to express a much future sense? Clearly, he and his contemporaries were expecting something real in their lifetimes!

Parousia

​

 

[Zadok7000]

Of course Paul and Jesus were not lying--but they were speaking of events that were to happen to THAT generation and not to any other!

Really? Christ's 2nd Coming happened nearly 2000 years ago?? Do I smell full preterism??

 

[StevenL]

Really? Christ's 2nd Coming happened nearly 2000 years ago?? Do I smell full preterism??

Nah, that's just your upper lip.

I'm not a "full preterist".

 

[Zadok7000]

Nah, that's just your upper lip.

I'm not a "full preterist".

I wasn't talking to you, Steven...

 

[StevenL]

I wasn't talking to you, Steven...

oh, sorry, I aint' too bright.

 

[rdclmn72]

Follow precedent;
Manassah defiles the temple
Josiah and the last revival
A small child named Jeremiah witnesses the revival and apostacy within the span of a single generation
The first exile is spared the judgement
The rest rebel for a second time and they are destroyed