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Apologetics (Preparing to defend Orthodox faith from Protestant attacks)

TaiKamiya720

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To get ready to defend my faith, I got a couple of articles from Protestants that attack the Orthodox Church:
This is from CARM (https://carm.org/authority-compare-orthodox-church-with-scripture)

Attack #1)Who has authority to Interpret Scripture? Christians do
In John 11:35 it says, "Jesus wept." the context is as follows:

John 11:33-37, "When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her, also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit, and was troubled, 34 and said, “Where have you laid him?” [Lazarus who had died, John 11:14] They said to Him, “Lord, come and see.” 35 Jesus wept. 36 And so the Jews were saying, “Behold how He loved him!” 37 But some of them said, “Could not this man, who opened the eyes of him who was blind, have kept this man also from dying?”

Do we need authority from a church or from those who claim apostolic succession to interpret the shortest verse in the Bible, "Jesus wept," (John 11:35)? Of course not. We can read it for ourselves and understand it plainly. Are we committing sin by daring to interpret the words? If authority is necessary to interpret God's word, and how is it we can understand it without that authority? Or, can't we just read it for what it says? Of course we can.

Now, that is not to say that all Scripture can be as easily understood. There are scriptures that are more difficult such as Col. 2:14 and Romans 5:18. But, if we are capable of understanding simple scriptures quickly, it makes sense to say we can understand more complicated issues with more study. But in all this, it does not mean that we ignore our church, or other Christians, or ancient councils, etc. But it does mean we have the right to be able to go to the word of God and look at it and see what it says for ourselves. If you don't believe me, consider what the Bible says...

1 John 2:27, "And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him."

My response, so far: That is like saying anarchy is OK and we can interpret the law by ourselves without any authority. Everybody is a liar (Psalm 115:2, OSB) and always has a tendancy to twist the scripture to their own desires (Isiah 55:8; Isiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 16, OSB). Jesus specifically gave the authority of teaching to the apostles (Matthew 28:19; Matthew 18:18; 1 Timothy 3:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15; Mark 16:15;Matthew 28:18-20, OSB).

Attack 2:
If we are to submit to Church authority when interpreting Scripture, then...
Does the Bible itself support the idea that we are to submit to church authority when interpreting the word of God and comparing teachings of Scripture. No it does not. In fact, it contradicts this idea.

  • Acts 17:11, "Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so."
  • Romans 14:5, "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."
If authority of the biblical interpretation rests with the church, then why did Paul the apostle praise the Bereans for checking what he said against Scripture? Why didn't he just tell them to submit to his authority? Also, if authority and submission to the Christian Church (i.e., Easter Orthodox) are required regarding beliefs and practices, then why does Paul contradict that in Romans 14:5 when he is speaking of doctrinal issues and practices when he says "let each man be fully convinced of his own mind"? Notice that Paul is telling us that individuals have the right to look at the word of God and decide for themselves; that is, to be convinced in their own minds. This clearly contradicts the idea that only certain churches have the "authority" to interpret God's word.

But, I do not expect the Orthodox Church to agree with what I am saying here in this article. I can only ask that anyone who is reading this would look at the Scriptures I have cited and see for yourself.


And here is another attack from "gotquestions.com" website:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Eastern-Orthodox-church.html

Attack 1: Sadly, the doctrine of justification by faith is virtually absent from the history and theology of the Orthodox Church. Rather, Orthodoxy emphasizes theosis (literally, “divinization”), the gradual process by which Christians become more and more like Christ. What many in the Orthodox tradition fail to understand is that “divinization” is the progressive result of salvation, not a requirement for salvation itself.

My response, so far: The Orthodox Church does NOT teach that divination is required for salvation. They teach that it is the result of salvation. They are more faith oriented than Roman Catholocism, in other words, the Orthodox Church believes in faith alone is enough. Denying divinization is like saying you can go to the gym on the first day as a whimpy little guy and start lifting 300 lbs. So what do you do? You start lifting 10 lbs, and then later on 20, and then, 30. Eventually, you would be able to really lift 300 lbs. Romans 7:14-19, 1 John 1:5-10, 1 Peter 2:2, and Philippians 3:12 teach that we become more Christlike over time and it is a gradual process.

Attack 2:
Other Orthodox distinctives that are in conflict with the Bible include:

The equal authority of church tradition and Scripture
Discouragement of individuals interpreting the Bible apart from tradition
The perpetual virginity of Mary
Prayer for the dead
Baptism of infants without reference to individual responsibility and faith
The possibility of receiving salvation after death
The possibility of losing salvation

How does an Orthodox Christian respond to these attacks.

Also, I also found this attack on Orthodoxy from some guy (Please note that this is done by David J. Stewart, the same guy who wrote that ALL Rock music and even the Disney Channel is of the devil and that women can't wear pants, blah blah blah) who is quite unstable when compared to the two other Protestants I listed above. Here is his website attacking Orthodoxy, (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Russian_Orthodox/russian_orthodox_exposed.htm). l:

Here is his attack :

The Russian Orthodox cult also teaches the damnable heresy of transubstantiation (just as do the Roman Catholics). This is the belief that the wine and bread at communion literally turn into Jesus' blood and flesh in a partaker's stomach. The Bible is very clear that the Lord's Supper is simply a time for REMEMBERING the atoning work of our precious Saviour...

"And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come." v-1st Corinthians 11:24-26

Nothing in the Bible even remotely indicates that we are digesting Jesus. The belief is that the digested body and blood of Jesus will give us spiritual life. On the contrary, the Word of God teaches that it is the Holy Spirit of God that gives us life...

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." —Romans 8:11

How does an Orthodox Christian use the bible to defend against this specific attack?




 
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~Anastasia~

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It seems to me that the problem is that they first get to say what we believe (and generally they misunderstand), and then they proceed to knock down the straw man they have erected.

I'm sure others can give you specific answers better than I can, but I'm more inclined to focus on what we ACTUALLY believe (as I see you have also) rather than get drawn into their argument. I may be able to offer something more later.
 
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The attack on transubstantiation is the most ridiculous, anti-Biblical, and anti-Christ statement imaginable. Christ says that if you do not eat His body and drink His blood you have no Life in you. He also says that the bread is His body (indeed) and that the cup is His blood (indeed). He does not say that these things merely "represent" his body and blood. The Apostle Paul clarifies this teaching of Christ by emphasizing the real presence of Christ in the bread and wine.

A false teaching such as this betrays a spiritual illness suffered by those who profess it. Recall that many stopped following Christ when He told them they would need to eat His flesh and drink His blood, because it was a "hard saying" and "who can understand it". These spiritually ill folks cannot understand it, so they reject it and claim that Christ meant only that the bread and wine "represent" his body and blood, in the form of a simple remembrance only. These are those who have stopped following the real Christ, because they can not receive the Kingdom of Heaven as a child does (i.e. by simple trust and belief in God's mysterious Truth), but must rationalize everything in a manner consistent with strict left hemispheric brain processes. For them, if something cannot be clearly defined with thoughts then it cannot be true. The Eucharist is God, and God cannot be clearly defined with human thoughts, but infinitely transcends our thoughts, and always will.
As for the Holy Spirit being the means by which we receive Life... of course that is true also, but this truth does not exclude the truth that eating Christ's flesh and drinking his blood brings Life, especially since Christ clearly says it.

It would be best to pray for such people and hope that God will heal what ails them in order that they may come to knowledge of the Truth.
 
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I'm EXTREMELY done with apologetics! Done. I was a frothing-at-the-mouth rabbid dog Catholic apologist on 'roids! All I thought about is debate, arguing, being right, finding materials to quote, sound bites from the Fathers, etc. I'd buy apologetics materials, argue online at Gehenna holes like Catholic Answers Forum. I was more interested in defense, debate, and verbal sparring than the peace of Christ Jesus.

While Orthodoxy needs defending, and the Truth must be shared, I'm fried on the apologetics thing.

My advice is humility, quiet meditation, constant control over the temptation to be "Hyperdox," and seeking PEACE!!
 
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JM

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as for the Eucharist, I would suggest they read John 6. and brush up on some Greek, especially the meaning of the word "remember" in the Greek.

Prot chiming in...I agree with ArmyMatt. Brush up on the Greek, the note in the OSB in John 6 is a good place to start, and also become more familiar with the three different views of Sacraments held by Protestants. Lutheran, Reformed and Anabaptist/Modern Baptists all have different views concerning the Lord's Supper. Only the last group believes the Lord's Supper is just a memorial meal of commemoration BUT if you ever attend the Lord's Supper at a conservative Baptist church you'll find a contradiction between the words/doctrine taught and the spiritual nourishment being given by Christ to the faithful.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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~Anastasia~

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as for the Eucharist, I would suggest they read John 6. and brush up on some Greek, especially the meaning of the word "remember" in the Greek.
The word amnesis took on an entirely new meaning to me because I experienced it my first Holy Week and Pascha in the Church. When I looked into the Greek regarding the Eucharist - well, BOOM!
 
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prodromos

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My advice to a new convert is to avoid apologetics like the plague. St Seraphim of Sarov said something along the lines of "acquire the Holy Spirit, and thousands around you will be saved."
The best way to defend Orthodoxy is to live it. I recall another TAW member's introduction to Orthodoxy was a Russian monk, I believe, and he noticed that when ever he was in his immediate presence, we felt distinctively calmer and his pulse rate would slow down. He thought it was something peculiar to this monk until he experienced the same thing in the presence of another Orthodox monastic, in the latter case a nun.
In both cases it was their Spirit filled lives that led him to the Orthodox faith, it wasn't any defense given in the face of Protestant or Catholic claims regarding the Orthodox Church (he was formerly Catholic).
 
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~Anastasia~

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Some good advice there. If you are thinking of "convincing" those around you by arguments and explanations --- just don't. I had to fight that myself, and it NEVER goes well. I like to have an answer WHEN ASKED (and that's usually by curious visitors to the parish) but I have thankfully learned to keep my mouth shut around family and friends, except for what they ask about. May God keep it ever so, because I can still be tempted.

But they DO notice changes in a person, and in how one relates to others (and I was already a "good Christian"). But I have not acquired the spirit Prodromos describes - not claiming to that!
 
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seashale76

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It's pointless. I used to care more when I was a recent convert. Long ago, I simply got to the point where I started copying and pasting old posts of mine instead of wasting any true effort on apologetics on the Internet. The same topics come up over and over again and I honestly don't think most people are critical thinkers (and perhaps that's a failing on my part to have such a low opinion of most people's intelligence- at the very least- it shows arrogance). Just the other night, I was talking to a co-worker of mine, and we mentioned what churches we went to. I didn't stutter over the Orthodox part, but she still called me Catholic anyway. I didn't even bother to correct her as it was obvious she didn't care and was convinced of her stance no matter what I'd say anyway. It's not worth it. I just need to concentrate on my own walk and my own failings. Perhaps if I get that together that will be the best witness I could ever have.
 
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ArmyMatt

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yeah, I would have to agree with what everyone else here is saying as well. remember it is God who converts people, and not any of us. so the best thing I think is to study up and learn the faith for sure, and then live your Christian life as best you can.

eventually someone will open the door, and when they do, pounce.
 
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All4Christ

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It is good to be able to explain what we believe though if someone asks something sincerely. My family for example asks me questions - not to convince me otherwise, but to understand. They may ask "why", but not in an antagonistic way. They appreciate honest answers. I think that is important as well, though it isn't necessarily apologetics. We don't need to convince anyone, but we should know our faith.
 
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DerekJM

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Although Catholic, the attacks from the likes of CARM are very similar on both.
EO is largely a quiet forum on Matt Slick's site, as opposed to Roman Catholicism, which is stacked with hostile ex-Catholics.
The Eucharist is an issue to low church Protestants,, and for all liturgical churches that practice it.
It is biblically supported, and not just symbolic.
But CARM pick and choose what is symbolic, and what is not. (eg "narrow gate", and the Calivinst predestination/ no free will doctrine is real to them).
The presence to me it is a spiritual one, and is a big part of the church service.
The rest of the apologetics is more to do with whether sola scriptura is the purest form of interpretation.
 
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Jesus4Madrid

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I think there may be an initial time as a convert where I really needed apologetics to help me get past some fundamental intellectual objections. Of course, life as an Orthodox Christian gets easier when we just trust the Church. I sort of feel that way now: the Fathers thought that? Ok, fair enough.

For those of us who have got to the point of trusting the Church (as expressed by Councils, Fathers, liturgies and hymns), we shouldn't forget the importance that apologetics can serve in getting us to where we are.
 
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All4Christ

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Agreed 110%. Often, my most important apologetics were (and sometimes are) against my past Evangelical Christian beliefs that still pop up occasionally in my own thoughts [emoji17] I trust the Church, but still want to understand "why". Sometimes my own past beliefs were the hardest hurdles to overcome through apologetics.
 
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Light of the East

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How does an Orthodox Christian use the bible to defend against this specific attack?

Sorry. Just couldn't resist.

Well, I agree with Gurney, although I haven't been able to stop pickin' fights with Protestants as of yet. But I should....now! And here's why.

PRIDE!!!

That deadly sin which covers itself by our thinking that we are really "defending the faith" and being "faithful Christians" when in truth I should be on my knees in sorrow for all the nasty things I've said to those who disagree with me.

Look, just curious. Why are you looking to do this? Is is that you expect your Protestant friends to start giving you 9 yards of grief about your decision to convert?

Just learn the basics and humbly share what you have found.

Don't be a jerk like I have been for years. Love will convert more people than being right!
 
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