Apocrypha and cross references from KJV

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
Oct 25, 2010
4,121
4,191
Yorktown VA
✟176,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I have a bachelors in religious studies and one year of a MDiv under my belt, so I've got a pretty eclectic collection of religious texts, Bibles, 2 interpretations of the Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita, Tao de Ching, a couple of Buddhist books and one on Shinto. Used to have a Tanakh, but I think I gave it away to a Jewish friend at one point. The JB is that's what my seminary professor in OT studies used. My Bibles include that, the Oxford RSV, a KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV, and I have a Greek NT. Heck I have a NWT and Book of Mormon that I've collected over time. If they are handing it out, Ill take it :p

I can muddle my way through the NT in Greek but the LXX has a lot of words that are unique to it, so I just stick with my Oxford for the OT and an Eastern Orthodox version of the NKJV for the NT.
 
Upvote 0

Gregorikos

Ordinary Mystic
Dec 31, 2019
1,095
887
Louisville, Kentucky
Visit site
✟113,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I have a bachelors in religious studies and one year of a MDiv under my belt, so I've got a pretty eclectic collection of religious texts, Bibles, 2 interpretations of the Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita, Tao de Ching, a couple of Buddhist books and one on Shinto. Used to have a Tanakh, but I think I gave it away to a Jewish friend at one point. The JB is that's what my seminary professor in OT studies used. My Bibles include that, the Oxford RSV, a KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV, and I have a Greek NT. Heck I have a NWT and Book of Mormon that I've collected over time. If they are handing it out, Ill take it :p

I can muddle my way through the NT in Greek but the LXX has a lot of words that are unique to it, so I just stick with my Oxford for the OT and an Eastern Orthodox version of the NKJV for the NT.

It's interesting that s/he would use the JB. I love the wording but always wondered how accurate it was, given that it came from a French original.
 
Upvote 0

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
Oct 25, 2010
4,121
4,191
Yorktown VA
✟176,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
It's interesting that s/he would use the JB. I love the wording but always wondered how accurate it was, given that it came from a French original.

Dr. Eugen Pentiuc's language background (I just noticed that he doesnt even bother with listing English)
  • Modern: Romanian (native), French, German, Hebrew
  • Ancient: Hebrew, Akkadian, Syriac, Aramaic, Ugaritic, Ethiopic (Ge’ez), Greek, Latin
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gregorikos
Upvote 0

A.ModerateOne

Active Member
Site Supporter
Sep 24, 2018
191
129
79
Florida
✟33,541.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I have a bachelors in religious studies and one year of a MDiv under my belt, so I've got a pretty eclectic collection of religious texts, Bibles, 2 interpretations of the Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita, Tao de Ching, a couple of Buddhist books and one on Shinto. Used to have a Tanakh, but I think I gave it away to a Jewish friend at one point. The JB is that's what my seminary professor in OT studies used. My Bibles include that, the Oxford RSV, a KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV, and I have a Greek NT. Heck I have a NWT and Book of Mormon that I've collected over time. If they are handing it out, Ill take it :p

I can muddle my way through the NT in Greek but the LXX has a lot of words that are unique to it, so I just stick with my Oxford for the OT and an Eastern Orthodox version of the NKJV for the NT.

I am a simple 'confessional' Baptist and certainly not versed in the more esoteric views of you Orthodox brethren on the Apocrypha, or Deuterocanonical books as you call them. Even the 4th Edition of the Oxford Annotated Bible with NRSV lists so many variations of the "Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical Books" that on page 1362 it has six columns as Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Slavonic (Russian Orthodox), Latin Vulgate Appendix, Greek Appendix and Protestant/Anglican Apocrypha showing the differences. My reason for the post was for those who, like myself, have a background where the Apocrypha was considered merely Roman Catholic, not for us. Yet, when we go back in our Protestant history, the Apocrypha was not shunned, but made use of as we viewed it as important but not inspired. I find it of interest how one of the Puritans commented on a non-canonical book mentioned in the OT.

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day." (Josh 10:13 RSV)

From the Commentary by Puritan John Trapp (1601-1669):
"Is not this written in the book of Jasher?] Which Jerome {a} will have to be Genesis: but it seemeth rather to have been some civil history or continued chronicle, such as are amongst us the Chronicles of England, which is now lost, as are also some other books, {1 Chronicles 29:29; 2 Chronicles 12:15; 2 Chronicles 9:29} and was therefore, we may be sure, no part of the holy canon: God, by his providence, taking care and course that no one hair of that sacred head should fall to the ground. This book of Jasher, or the upright, together with Solomon’s Physics, {1 Kings 4:32-33} the book of his Acts, {1 Kings 11:41} the books of Nathan and Gad, {1 Chronicles 29:29} of Shemaiah, {2 Chronicles 12:15} of Jehu, {2 Chronicles 20:34} the books of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel and Judah, &c., were not testamentary or canonical: and are now taken away, not because they contained matter either above human capacity, or else corrupt and unsound, as Origen {b} determineth: but rather, as Augustine {c} hath it, we are to know, that although they were both pious and profitable, yet were they written out of a historical diligence for more plentiful knowledge; not by divine inspiration, for the authority of religion."
Joshua 10 - John Trapp Complete Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

When you read the references John Trapp gives, it is clear that the hearers/readers were expected to have knowledge of those writings and not be ignorant. My favorite modern study Bible is the Lutheran Study Bible by the LCMS and while it does not include the Apocrypha, using the ESV, it has very good articles on the matter with many quotes by Martin Luther. I find it reasonable and sound interpretation to consider the viewpoints of OT teachings held by the Israelites in the centuries prior to the Incarnation. Along with the Lutheran study Bible, I do have The Orthodox Study Bible copyright 2008 as well as the NAB Roman Catholic Study Bible among many others. I find it valuable to study from various perspectives; and while the annotations of the Oxford Study Bibles are usually far too liberal for me, I still find nuggets of interest and thought stimulation there as well. But, again, my OP was mainly to share the only sources of Cross-References to the Apocrypha I have been able to find and share the three with others who like myself do not have a background with the Apocryphal writings.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: GreekOrthodox
Upvote 0

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
8,240
3,032
Minnesota
✟212,877.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I am a simple 'confessional' Baptist and certainly not versed in the more esoteric views of you Orthodox brethren on the Apocrypha, or Deuterocanonical books as you call them. Even the 4th Edition of the Oxford Annotated Bible with NRSV lists so many variations of the "Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical Books" that on page 1362 it has six columns as Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Slavonic (Russian Orthodox), Latin Vulgate Appendix, Greek Appendix and Protestant/Anglican Apocrypha showing the differences. My reason for the post was for those who, like myself, have a background where the Apocrypha was considered merely Roman Catholic, not for us. Yet, when we go back in our Protestant history, the Apocrypha was not shunned, but made use of as we viewed it as important but not inspired. I find it of interest how one of the Puritans commented on a non-canonical book mentioned in the OT.

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day." (Josh 10:13 RSV)

From the Commentary by Puritan John Trapp (1601-1669):
"Is not this written in the book of Jasher?] Which Jerome {a} will have to be Genesis: but it seemeth rather to have been some civil history or continued chronicle, such as are amongst us the Chronicles of England, which is now lost, as are also some other books, {1 Chronicles 29:29; 2 Chronicles 12:15; 2 Chronicles 9:29} and was therefore, we may be sure, no part of the holy canon: God, by his providence, taking care and course that no one hair of that sacred head should fall to the ground. This book of Jasher, or the upright, together with Solomon’s Physics, {1 Kings 4:32-33} the book of his Acts, {1 Kings 11:41} the books of Nathan and Gad, {1 Chronicles 29:29} of Shemaiah, {2 Chronicles 12:15} of Jehu, {2 Chronicles 20:34} the books of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel and Judah, &c., were not testamentary or canonical: and are now taken away, not because they contained matter either above human capacity, or else corrupt and unsound, as Origen {b} determineth: but rather, as Augustine {c} hath it, we are to know, that although they were both pious and profitable, yet were they written out of a historical diligence for more plentiful knowledge; not by divine inspiration, for the authority of religion."
Joshua 10 - John Trapp Complete Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

When you read the references John Trapp gives, it is clear that the hearers/readers were expected to have knowledge of those writings and not be ignorant. My favorite modern study Bible is the Lutheran Study Bible by the LCMS and while it does not include the Apocrypha, using the ESV, it has very good articles on the matter with many quotes by Martin Luther. I find it reasonable and sound interpretation to consider the viewpoints of OT teachings held by the Israelites in the centuries prior to the Incarnation. Along with the Lutheran study Bible, I do have The Orthodox Study Bible copyright 2008 as well as the NAB Roman Catholic Study Bible among many others. I find it valuable to study from various perspectives; and while the annotations of the Oxford Study Bibles are usually far too liberal for me, I still find nuggets of interest and thought stimulation there as well. But, again, my OP was mainly to share the only sources of Cross-References to the Apocrypha I have been able to find and share the three with others who like myself do not have a background with the Apocryphal writings.
For the Catholic Church we stick with the same 73 books we used in the 300s. At that time all apocryphal texts were rejected. Luther was able to get some, but not all of the books he wanted dropped from the Protestant version of the Bible. For example, Revelation remains in Protestant Bibles.
 
Upvote 0

Gregorikos

Ordinary Mystic
Dec 31, 2019
1,095
887
Louisville, Kentucky
Visit site
✟113,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
For the Catholic Church we stick with the same 73 books we used in the 300s. At that time all apocryphal texts were rejected. Luther was able to get some, but not all of the books he wanted dropped from the Protestant version of the Bible. For example, Revelation remains in Protestant Bibles.

That may be a little misleading. Regardless of what Martin Luther thought about it, the Protestant New Testament contains the same 27 books that the Catholic New Testament contains.

And the Protestant Old Testament contains the same books as the Jewish Tanakh. The books are arranged and numbered differently, but the content is the same, no more and no less.

Protestants view the Deuterocanonicals as additions to the Tanakh that never should have been there to begin with.
 
Upvote 0

A.ModerateOne

Active Member
Site Supporter
Sep 24, 2018
191
129
79
Florida
✟33,541.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
For the Catholic Church we stick with the same 73 books we used in the 300s. At that time all apocryphal texts were rejected. Luther was able to get some, but not all of the books he wanted dropped from the Protestant version of the Bible. For example, Revelation remains in Protestant Bibles.

Since I am a Particular Baptist and have not mentioned Martin Luther, your charge against Luther must be prompted by my high praise for The Lutheran Study Bible, Columbia Publishing House, St. Louis, by the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS). This is not the study Bible published by the liberal ELCA. Even though I'm Baptist, this Lutheran Study Bible is what I have chosen to give to family members and a couple of friends.

While I view Martin Luther as a giant among great pillars of our faith such as Augustine, Calvin, Knox, etc., I do not consider any one of them, nor any mortal man, infallible. The LCMS Lutheran Study Bible includes Luther's Revised Preface on Revelation, not his earlier view. But, for those curious, I'll let a scholarly Lutheran defend Luther on this matter.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Luther on Revelation: "I feel an aversion to it, and to me this is sufficient reason for rejecting it."

The the Bible Researcher web site also has an informative article on this question:

Luther's Antilegomena
 
Upvote 0