APA's 1973 decision cannot be cited as medial consensus.

[savedandhappy1]

What does that have to do with the thread? This thread is called "APA's 1973 decision cannot be cited as medical consensus". Sure, if we are talking about Scriptural interpretations, but that isn't what this thread is about. Since you don't really hold water in a credible secular psychological or psychiatric debate, you turn this back onto the Bible.

Aren't you more or less hijacking your own thread by bringing that point in here?

You bring secular opinion in here as the nature of the thread, not Biblical.

You bring secular opinion in threads that have to do with the scriptures, so your point is?

You have tried really hard to prove that SSA isn't a medical condition on many threads. Which I believe wasn't even a consideration by most Christians, and you use the fact that the APA says it is normal now, as some basis for proving it on isn't a sin. What the world wants to label a sin or not doesn't really have anything to do with what our heavenly Father says. Unless you can show that all those in the organizations you named are prophets sent from God, or for that fact even a Christian, what does it have to do with the issue?

So since I came across an article stating that the APA's changing from an illness to normal listing wasn't as clear cut as it appeared to me you were trying to make it, I am now here with an agenda and a prejudice?

Are you disagreeing with the statement of only 58 % voted to change their listing? If the facts in the article are wrong please show the proof you have.

That to me would be alot better than judging me, which I am accused of doing to those who don't agree that homosexuality is a sin, by only stating that it is.

Why attack the author of the article, saying he has an agenda, and/or me with the same statements without any proof that the things he stated were incorrect?

I realize you didn't make all these statements but thought I would just cover them all while typing.

The one thing that is still the most important thing is that it doesn't matter if it isn't called a disease anymore or if social workers say it is normal, because we don't have to answer to them. The point isn't whether all the doctors of the APA voted to change their listing about homosexuality or only 58% did.

The point is are we keeping the important things in our lives to heavenly/spiritual things or to the earthly, carnal, fleshly things of this world.

Are we putting more weight in God or man?

 

[MrPirate]

Oh david, Could you tell me how the Social Workers saying homosexiality is ok matters to God? Since when did they get the deciding hand on this? In fact what does all those groups you mention have to do with the sin or no sin factor? Last I knew God hasn't appointed them over Himself to speak on this.

Do you have some information you have found in the scriptures that tell us we should listen to these worldly/earthly associations over the Lord?

Obviously medical consensus is that homosexuality is not an illness of any sort

 

[MrPirate]

You bring secular opinion in threads that have to do with the scriptures, so your point is?

You entire OP is secular opinion.

Why attack the author of the article, saying he has an agenda, and/or me with the same statements without any proof that the things he stated were incorrect?

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=39882793&postcount=10

 

[davedjy]

You bring secular opinion in threads that have to do with the scriptures, so your point is?

My point is, that I am fighting your secular opinion with secular opinion. I bring secular opinion and mix it with Scriptural intepretations.

You have tried really hard to prove that SSA isn't a medical condition on many threads. Which I believe wasn't even a consideration by most Christians, and you use the fact that the APA says it is normal now, as some basis for proving it on isn't a sin. What the world wants to label a sin or not doesn't really have anything to do with what our heavenly Father says. Unless you can show that all those in the organizations you named are prophets sent from God, or for that fact even a Christian, what does it have to do with the issue?

What does Christian Scriptural reasoning have anything to do with this thread in the first place? I not only use the APA, but most of the time I use all major mental health foundation's stands on reparative therapy.

So since I came across an article stating that the APA's changing from an illness to normal listing wasn't as clear cut as it appeared to me you were trying to make it, I am now here with an agenda and a prejudice?

Are you disagreeing with the statement of only 58 % voted to change their listing? If the facts in the article are wrong please show the proof you have.

My position isn't to state the truth on the APA, my position in this thread was to state that all credible mental health foundations together agree it isn't an illness.

Why attack the author of the article, saying he has an agenda, and/or me with the same statements without any proof that the things he stated were incorrect?

I realize you didn't make all these statements but thought I would just cover them all while typing.

I'm not the one that said you have an agenda, although in a way, it does seem like it, as you brought a parade into this forum, which has nothing to do with the majority of gays or lesbians. All stuff like that does is fuel the fire for those here who love stereotypes.

The one thing that is still the most important thing is that it doesn't matter if it isn't called a disease anymore or if social workers say it is normal, because we don't have to answer to them. The point isn't whether all the doctors of the APA voted to change their listing about homosexuality or only 58% did.

As I stated, it doesn't matter, the APA, is only one of all the mental health foundations, that all together stand against any belief that homosexuality is an illness. They are all against any type of reparative therapy or ex-gay program as well.

The point is are we keeping the important things in our lives to heavenly/spiritual things or to the earthly, carnal, fleshly things of this world.

Are we putting more weight in God or man?

This point has nothing to do with your thread OP, but nonetheless I will answer. I use Scriptural interpretations ALONG with Psychological and Psychiatric evidence to base my claims. I don't place the mental health foundations above God's Word, which is why I use Scriptural interpretations, as well.

I have already placed my opinion and my reasoning for interpretations of these "clobber passages":


Genesis 18 (story of Sodom and Gomorrah).
Leviticus 18 and 20
1 Cor. 6:9
Romans 1

 

[savedandhappy1]

Homosexuality and the Truth



Elizabeth Moberly


Copyright (c) 1997 First Things 71 (March 1997): 30-33. During the early 1970s, gay activists had made a number of disruptive demonstrations at professional meetings, placing considerable pressure on psychiatrists to revise their designation of homosexuality as a disorder treatable by psychiatry. In 1973, the board of the American Psychiatric Association voted to change the classification of homosexuality in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The members of the APA who specialized in treating homosexuals protested the board's decision, but immediately before a general referendum on the issue, a letter went out in the name of the board, urging APA members not to reverse the board's decision. It was not known until after the vote that this letter was in fact written and paid for by the National Gay Task Force, and the final tally in the referendum upheld the board's decision to reclassify homosexuality. The 1973 decision was based not on any advance in scientific or medical knowledge. It occurred instead as a result of successful gay lobbying- and a considerable body of psychological data on homosexuality was dismissed as no longer relevant.

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9703/opinion/moberly.html

Numerous psychiatrists over the past decades have described what forces were really at work both inside and outside of the American Psychiatric Association-and what led to the removal of homosexuality as a mental disorder.

Dr. Ronald Bayer explains how homosexual activists captured the APA for political gain.
Dr. Ronald Bayer, a pro-homosexual psychiatrist has described what actually occurred in his book, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. (1981)
In Chapter 4, "Diagnostic Politics: Homosexuality and the American Psychiatric Association," Dr. Bayer says that the first attack by homosexual activists against the APA began in 1970 when this organization held its convention in San Francisco. Homosexual activists decided to disrupt the conference by interrupting speakers and shouting down and ridiculing psychiatrists who viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In 1971, homosexual activist Frank Kameny worked with the Gay Liberation Front collective to demonstrate against the APA's convention. At the 1971 conference, Kameny grabbed the microphone and yelled, "Psychiatry is the enemy incarnate. Psychiatry has waged a relentless war of extermination against us. You may take this as a declaration of war against you."
Homosexuals forged APA credentials and gained access to exhibit areas in the conference. They threatened anyone who claimed that homosexuals needed to be cured.

I know these people have an agenda too.

 

[savedandhappy1]

My point is, that I am fighting your secular opinion with secular opinion. I bring secular opinion and mix it with Scriptural intepretations.

huh?

What does Christian Scriptural reasoning have anything to do with this thread in the first place? I not only use the APA, but most of the time I use all major mental health foundation's stands on reparative therapy.

I commented on all of your list if you would want to re-read that post.

What does secular opinion have to do with christian scriptural reasoning?

My position isn't to state the truth on the APA, my position in this thread was to state that all credible mental health foundations together agree it isn't an illness.

Which has what to do with it being or not being a sin? As I have already stated I don't really believe to many Christians thought it was an illness or though they might have as compared to wanting to think it was a great deceiving from the devil.

I'm not the one that said you have an agenda, although in a way, it does seem like it, as you brought a parade into this forum, which has nothing to do with the majority of gays or lesbians. All stuff like that does is fuel the fire for those here who love stereotypes.

A parade of what?

Did I have alot of clowns and were they passing out candy in the parade? I do love a good parade, even if I have no idea what you are even talking about.

As I stated, it doesn't matter, the APA, is only one of all the mental health foundations, that all together stand against any belief that homosexuality is an illness. They are all against any type of reparative therapy or ex-gay program as well.

All ready answered.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Homosexuality and the Truth



Elizabeth Moberly


Copyright (c) 1997 First Things 71 (March 1997): 30-33. During the early 1970s, gay activists had made a number of disruptive demonstrations at professional meetings, placing considerable pressure on psychiatrists to revise their designation of homosexuality as a disorder treatable by psychiatry. In 1973, the board of the American Psychiatric Association voted to change the classification of homosexuality in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The members of the APA who specialized in treating homosexuals protested the board's decision, but immediately before a general referendum on the issue, a letter went out in the name of the board, urging APA members not to reverse the board's decision. It was not known until after the vote that this letter was in fact written and paid for by the National Gay Task Force, and the final tally in the referendum upheld the board's decision to reclassify homosexuality. The 1973 decision was based not on any advance in scientific or medical knowledge. It occurred instead as a result of successful gay lobbying- and a considerable body of psychological data on homosexuality was dismissed as no longer relevant.

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9703/opinion/moberly.html

Numerous psychiatrists over the past decades have described what forces were really at work both inside and outside of the American Psychiatric Association-and what led to the removal of homosexuality as a mental disorder.

Dr. Ronald Bayer explains how homosexual activists captured the APA for political gain.
Dr. Ronald Bayer, a pro-homosexual psychiatrist has described what actually occurred in his book, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. (1981)
In Chapter 4, "Diagnostic Politics: Homosexuality and the American Psychiatric Association," Dr. Bayer says that the first attack by homosexual activists against the APA began in 1970 when this organization held its convention in San Francisco. Homosexual activists decided to disrupt the conference by interrupting speakers and shouting down and ridiculing psychiatrists who viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In 1971, homosexual activist Frank Kameny worked with the Gay Liberation Front collective to demonstrate against the APA's convention. At the 1971 conference, Kameny grabbed the microphone and yelled, "Psychiatry is the enemy incarnate. Psychiatry has waged a relentless war of extermination against us. You may take this as a declaration of war against you."
Homosexuals forged APA credentials and gained access to exhibit areas in the conference. They threatened anyone who claimed that homosexuals needed to be cured.

I know these people have an agenda too.

"cured" implies a pathology... homosexuality has no pathology... you might as well talk about someone with red hair being "cured" of redheadism

 

[savedandhappy1]

"cured" implies a pathology... homosexuality has no pathology... you might as well talk about someone with red hair being "cured" of redheadism

As stated in more that one post I have never said they were diseased or mentally ill.

Cured by biblical standards doesn't have anything to do with pathological finding when talking about sin, and I have posted the scriptures on other threads that show why I say that. I'm not going to post them again.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

As stated in more that one post I have never said they were diseased or mentally ill.

Cured by biblical standards doesn't have anything to do with pathological finding when talking about sin, and I have posted the scriptures on other threads that show why I say that. I'm not going to post them again.

Really? please... inform me of any example in the Bible where anyone was "cured" of anything that did NOY have an identifiable clinical pathology?

 

[MrPirate]

Homosexuality and the Truth



Elizabeth Moberly


Copyright (c) 1997 First Things 71 (March 1997): 30-33. During the early 1970s, gay activists had made a number of disruptive demonstrations at professional meetings, placing considerable pressure on psychiatrists to revise their designation of homosexuality as a disorder treatable by psychiatry. In 1973, the board of the American Psychiatric Association voted to change the classification of homosexuality in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The members of the APA who specialized in treating homosexuals protested the board's decision, but immediately before a general referendum on the issue, a letter went out in the name of the board, urging APA members not to reverse the board's decision. It was not known until after the vote that this letter was in fact written and paid for by the National Gay Task Force, and the final tally in the referendum upheld the board's decision to reclassify homosexuality. The 1973 decision was based not on any advance in scientific or medical knowledge. It occurred instead as a result of successful gay lobbying- and a considerable body of psychological data on homosexuality was dismissed as no longer relevant.

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9703/opinion/moberly.html

Numerous psychiatrists over the past decades have described what forces were really at work both inside and outside of the American Psychiatric Association-and what led to the removal of homosexuality as a mental disorder.

Dr. Ronald Bayer explains how homosexual activists captured the APA for political gain.
Dr. Ronald Bayer, a pro-homosexual psychiatrist has described what actually occurred in his book, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. (1981)
In Chapter 4, "Diagnostic Politics: Homosexuality and the American Psychiatric Association," Dr. Bayer says that the first attack by homosexual activists against the APA began in 1970 when this organization held its convention in San Francisco. Homosexual activists decided to disrupt the conference by interrupting speakers and shouting down and ridiculing psychiatrists who viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In 1971, homosexual activist Frank Kameny worked with the Gay Liberation Front collective to demonstrate against the APA's convention. At the 1971 conference, Kameny grabbed the microphone and yelled, "Psychiatry is the enemy incarnate. Psychiatry has waged a relentless war of extermination against us. You may take this as a declaration of war against you."
Homosexuals forged APA credentials and gained access to exhibit areas in the conference. They threatened anyone who claimed that homosexuals needed to be cured.

I know these people have an agenda too.

A pity their agenda isn’t honesty.


We already looked at the false witness you are presenting.

Repeating a lie don’t’ make it any more true

 

[davedjy]

huh?

YOUR basis of refuting my secular opinion here was "with Scripture", but this thread has nothing to do with Scripture. That was my only point. Saying that I post medical/secular opinion in Bible threads doesn't really refute my point. I have already made points on all Scriptural references to any form of homosexuality, ad nauseam, yet you still seem to believe that my basis for all my claims is based on secular, medical research.

What does secular opinion have to do with christian scriptural reasoning?

I use Scriptural interpretations along with Secular truth supports, since I believe they both hold truth that is valid. Nonetheless, my earlier point was that you refuted my Mental health foundation quotations saying something like "is this the basis you use, you put man above God's Word?". My points in this thread have nothing to do with God's Word. That isn't even what this thread is about. I normally use the mental health claims, when referring to reparative therapy or someone making a claim that homosexuality is changeable, anyways.

Which has what to do with it being or not being a sin? As I have already stated I don't really believe to many Christians thought it was an illness or though they might have as compared to wanting to think it was a great deceiving from the devil.

Then I guess I missed the point of the thread. The thread topic has nothing to do with homosexuality being a sin or not.

A parade of what?

Did I have alot of clowns and were they passing out candy in the parade? I do love a good parade, even if I have no idea what you are even talking about.

Weren't you the one that posted the Last Supper mocking? I thought that took place at a gay pride parade.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Really? please... inform me of any example in the Bible where anyone was "cured" of anything that did NOY have an identifiable clinical pathology?

Psalms 41:1-4

1Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.
2The LORD will preserve him, and keep him alive; and he shall be blessed upon the earth: and thou wilt not deliver him unto the will of his enemies.
3The LORD will strengthen him upon the bed of languishing: thou wilt make all his bed in his sickness.
4I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.

Matt. 9:11-12

11And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

1 Peter 2:21-25

21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Psalms 41:1-4

1Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.
2The LORD will preserve him, and keep him alive; and he shall be blessed upon the earth: and thou wilt not deliver him unto the will of his enemies.
3The LORD will strengthen him upon the bed of languishing: thou wilt make all his bed in his sickness.
4I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.

Matt. 9:11-12

11And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

1 Peter 2:21-25

21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

clearly we are talking about alegorical weakness of the soul, or an attempt to find deeper meaning... not an actual healing of anything specific... it clearly has no relation to healing as you mean it with regard to homosexuals...

 

[savedandhappy1]

YOUR basis of refuting my secular opinion here was "with Scripture", but this thread has nothing to do with Scripture. That was my only point. Saying that I post medical/secular opinion in Bible threads doesn't really refute my point. I have already made points on all Scriptural references to any form of homosexuality, ad nauseam, yet you still seem to believe that my basis for all my claims is based on secular, medical research.

So you don't think that listing that APA has changed their opinion and now say that homosexuality isn't an illness, makes it sound like they discovered something that lead them to their decision? So you wouldn't say that the way you state it is alittle deceiving? Kind of makes it sound like they all agree they were wrong not that they buckled under the pressure, don't you thing?

I use Scriptural interpretations along with Secular truth supports, since I believe they both hold truth that is valid. Nonetheless, my earlier point was that you refuted my Mental health foundation quotations saying something like "is this the basis you use, you put man above God's Word?". My points in this thread have nothing to do with God's Word. That isn't even what this thread is about. I normally use the mental health claims, when referring to reparative therapy or someone making a claim that homosexuality is changeable, anyways.

I never have said that I thought reparative therapy was the way to go, or that it works.

Do believe, that as God changed me and everyone else that has excepted Him as their Lord and Saviour, that in His time and will He can and will do the same for all those that repent.

Then I guess I missed the point of the thread. The thread topic has nothing to do with homosexuality being a sin or not.

Probably has many points, and one of them could be to point out that saying the APA changed their opinion, doesn't mean what it sounds like it means. Again, it isn't because they found proof of anything, except that the pro-gay folks can really put on alot of pressure.

QUOTE]Weren't you the one that posted the Last Supper mocking? I thought that took place at a gay pride parade.[/QUOTE]

Gays" Mock Jesus with Last Supper Take-Off


Bread and Wine Replaced with "Sex Toys"
California Taxpayers Forced to Subsidize Debauched Folsom Street Fair

Washington, D.C. - Organizers of San Francisco's hedonistic Folsom Street Fair - sponsored by Miller Brewing, Co. - have portrayed Christ and His disciples as half-naked homosexual sadomasochists in the event's promotional advertisement. The bread and wine representing Christ's broken body and lifegiving blood are replaced with sadomasochistic sex toys in this twisted version of Da Vinci's The Last Supper.

http://www.cwfa.org/articles/13888/CFI/family/index.htm

Yes, I did post it, and no it wasn't at a gay parade. Even if it was I am still not sure what point you think you were making, sorry.

Do you really think that the Last Supper should be treated like that whether it is hetrosexuals or homosexuals sitting around making it look like it was just some sex orgie? He was showing us away to remember, worship and praise Him for what He was getting ready to do for us, and to reduce it to some.................nevermind. Since I can't even understand your point, and from the sounds of it you don't see that anything wrong was done. Well, just nevermind.

 

[savedandhappy1]

clearly we are talking about alegorical weakness of the soul, or an attempt to find deeper meaning... not an actual healing of anything specific... it clearly has no relation to healing as you mean it with regard to homosexuals...

If I believe that homosexuality is a sin and not an illness, which I do, than it has everything to do with it.

I was cleansed and healed by the Lord, weren't you?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Do you really think that the Last Supper should be treated like that whether it is hetrosexuals or homosexuals sitting around making it look like it was just some sex orgie? He was showing us away to remember, worship and praise Him for what He was getting ready to do for us, and to reduce it to some.................nevermind. Since I can't even understand your point, and from the sounds of it you don't see that anything wrong was done. Well, just nevermind.

Such things only have the meaning we bring to them.

a symbol by itself means nothing... it only means anything if you CHOOSE to give it meaning.

Believing that a symbol is inherently meaningful or powerful is idolatry

 

[EnemyPartyII]

well, if you believe homosexuality is a sin not an illness, I'm not sure what the OP of this thread is meant to achieve?

As for your second, I require and receive ongoing spiritual "healing" from God, although I'm sure "support" is a better word.

Healing implies all sorts of medical paradigms, and, if that is not how you mean it, becomes misleading

 

[davedjy]

So you don't think that listing that APA has changed their opinion and now say that homosexuality isn't an illness, makes it sound like they discovered something that lead them to their decision? So you wouldn't say that the way you state it is alittle deceiving? Kind of makes it sound like they all agree they were wrong not that they buckled under the pressure, don't you thing?

As I read on Wikipedia, there is much debate over the reason for the decision. Either way, it doesn't shape my opinion, we have all the other mental health professionals that have a similar opinion against those who say it is an illness.

I never have said that I thought reparative therapy was the way to go, or that it works.

I never said you did, however, you still believe change is possible.

Do believe, that as God changed me and everyone else that has excepted Him as their Lord and Saviour, that in His time and will He can and will do the same for all those that repent.

He doesn't change people's sexual orientation...there are mountains of people including myself that have never had a conversion. There isn't any proof of any such change...the majority of those who say they were healed were either bisexual or decieved to start. There are so many that have regretted giving testimonies, which is why I don't believe testimonies hold evidence.

Probably has many points, and one of them could be to point out that saying the APA changed their opinion, doesn't mean what it sounds like it means. Again, it isn't because they found proof of anything, except that the pro-gay folks can really put on alot of pressure.

As I stated, there is lots of controversy over their decision, and what the truth is behind it. Either way, from every other credible mental health foundation's take on the subject, it seems clear that the APA would've changed, anyways. There has been plenty more credible research done since the 70's that support the notion that homosexuality isn't an illness.

Yes, I did post it, and no it wasn't at a gay parade. Even if it was I am still not sure what point you think you were making, sorry.

My point was, that you said you don't have any agenda here, yet you post something like that. All it does is feed the anti-gay stereotype people in this forum, who love to generalize all gays this way. I also said that I wasn't the one who said you had an agenda, but that was my reason for believing you might be perceived that way.

Do you really think that the Last Supper should be treated like that whether it is hetrosexuals or homosexuals sitting around making it look like it was just some sex orgie? He was showing us away to remember, worship and praise Him for what He was getting ready to do for us, and to reduce it to some.................nevermind. Since I can't even understand your point, and from the sounds of it you don't see that anything wrong was done. Well, just nevermind.

No, that wasn't my point...my point was about what it contributes to people's already misperceived generalizations are about gays. I don't agree with what they did with the Last Supper thing, in the least.

 

[savedandhappy1]

well, if you believe homosexuality is a sin not an illness, I'm not sure what the OP of this thread is meant to achieve?

Probably has many points, and one of them could be to point out that saying the APA changed their opinion, doesn't mean what it sounds like it means. Again, it isn't because they found proof of anything, except that the pro-gay folks can really put on alot of pressure.

As for your second, I require and receive ongoing spiritual "healing" from God, although I'm sure "support" is a better word.

Healing implies all sorts of medical paradigms, and, if that is not how you mean it, becomes misleading.

So when Jesus said that the healthy don't need a physician the sick do, he was being misleading? The scriptures I posted are misleading?

Such things only have the meaning we bring to them.

a symbol by itself means nothing... it only means anything if you CHOOSE to give it meaning.

Believing that a symbol is inherently meaningful or powerful is idolatry

Amazing that thinking that the example that was set for us by Jesus should not be mocked, and if I believe it is mocking than I have turned the Last Supper into idolatry.

So if some was putting down the Lord by mocking the example He gave us on how to pray, that would be idolatry also?

Or thinking it was mocking for what Madonna does with the cross in her video and shows mean I have made the crucifiction an idol and not the Lord.

Boy, we have different ideas on what fearing the Lord and being reverent and respectful for all He has done than. The scriptures that tell us He will not be mocked, can I ask what that means to you?

 

[davedjy]

Probably has many points, and one of them could be to point out that saying the APA changed their opinion, doesn't mean what it sounds like it means. Again, it isn't because they found proof of anything, except that the pro-gay folks can really put on alot of pressure.

Regardless, I don't understand the motivation of the thread, either. It hasn't been proven that the medical decision to remove it as an illness is because of pro-gay arguers. Even if it was the basis of the decision, you surely cannot use the pro-gay arguer debate as an excuse for all the other credible mental health foundations that don't view homosexuality as an illness.