Anything Positive???

[Caylin]

What rights has anybody voted to oppress? We have equal rights.

In addition to the fact that you have the right to marry someone you love and I don't, people routinely vote against ENDA laws and hate crime laws for gay people.

 

[DMagoh]

In addition to the fact that you have the right to marry someone you love and I don't...

You and I have equal rights. You can marry any woman that agrees to marry you, just like me. I can’t marry a man, and neither can you. See, we have equal rights. You don’t want equal rights, you already have those. You want additional rights that you don’t already have, and neither does any one else.

 

[DMagoh]

...people routinely vote against ...hate crime laws for gay people.

Why should someone who kills me (a straight person) get a lighter sentence than someone who kills you (a gay person)?

.

 

[Caylin]

No, I *can't* marry a woman. Go look at that pink symbol next to my name again. You are allowed to marry the person you love. Why am I not? It doesn't hurt a single person.

If someone kills you because you are christian they would be persecuted under hate crime laws. Do you not realize that hate crime laws cover religion?

I notice you didn't address ENDA laws.

 

[Gishin]

What rights has anybody voted to oppress? We have equal rights.

False. A man may marry a woman, but a woman may not. This is sexist.

 

[DMagoh]

What rights has anybody voted to oppress? We have equal rights.

False. A man may marry a woman, but a woman may not. This is sexist.

No, it's true, I never said it wasnt sexist, I said we had equal rights, and we do.

We both can marry a member of the opposite sex = EQUAL.
Neither can marry a member of the same sex = EQUAL.

You want a right that I dont have. I cant marry a member of the same sex either. We have equal rights.

 

[Zecryphon]

So you are saying that voting to oppress the rights of a minority is something people shouldn't feel guilty about?

You're projecting a motive upon people that they may not necessarily have. If someone votes against something that they feel is wrong, for whatever reason, you can't accept their reason. No, you have to tell yourself and anyone who will listen that they are voting the way they are to oppress a minority. It's a projection from you, not a truthful statement about them. So why do you feel justified going around projecting lies upon people?

 

[DMagoh]

You're projecting a motive upon people that they may not necessarily have. If someone votes against something that they feel is wrong, for whatever reason, you can't accept their reason. No, you have to tell yourself and anyone who will listen that they are voting the way they are to oppress a minority. It's a projection from you, not a truthful statement about them. So why do you feel justified going around projecting lies upon people?

AMEN!

 

[Morrigu]

No, it's true, I never said it wasnt sexist, I said we had equal rights, and we do.

We both can marry a member of the opposite sex = EQUAL.
Neither can marry a member of the same sex = EQUAL.

You want a right that I dont have. I cant marry a member of the same sex either. We have equal rights.

Under that logic, it would still be equal... you would be able to marry a man if you wanted...

see, it is the rights we are dnied are not those of marring someone of the oposite sex, but of marring out of love.

You can fall in love, and the entire world will applaud you, well greet you, and wish you for the best.

We? we get rejected by our families, we get beaten in the streets by neonazis, and religious talk about us like we are not humans....

do you call that equal?

 

[Caylin]

You're projecting a motive upon people that they may not necessarily have. If someone votes against something that they feel is wrong, for whatever reason, you can't accept their reason. No, you have to tell yourself and anyone who will listen that they are voting the way they are to oppress a minority. It's a projection from you, not a truthful statement about them. So why do you feel justified going around projecting lies upon people?

Whether or not their motive is to oppress a minority, they are still doing it and they know they are.

 

[Zecryphon]

Whether or not their motive is to oppress a minority, they are still doing it and they know they are.

You haven't answered the question that's been posed to you. Plus, it's not a fact that they're oppressing a minority by their actions. That's STILL an unfounded accusation from you about them.

 

[Caylin]

You haven't answered the question that's been posed to you. Plus, it's not a fact that they're oppressing a minority by their actions. That's STILL an unfounded accusation from you about them.

To answer your question, I'm not projecting anything. The fact is, if you vote to deny rights to someone, you are oppressing them.

 

[Zecryphon]

No, I'm not. You are projecting a false motive upon people. There can be no denying that. You are saying that the reason these people who vote against an issue is that they wish to oppress people. You have no way of proving that statement, because you don't know these people personally and have no way to determine what their motives are. It's just like when the conservatives say stuff like "the reason gays want to marry is so they can undermine the moral fabric of society." They have no way of proving that statement either and are projecting falsely. If I accused a conservative of making a false projection in response to such a statement, you'd fully agree with me. But when the shoe is on the other foot, you can't be honest enough to admit you're doing the same thing. Why is that?


Now let's take a look at the other side of the same coin. If you vote for or against an issue, how are you not forcing your morality and what you think is good upon others? Why is it only the conservatives that get hit with that accusation? Anybody who votes for or against anything, is forcing their view of what they think is right or wrong upon others. Own up to it. But you won't. You'll just reserve your condemnation for those who have the audacity to disagree with you, while telling yourself that you're looking out for the good of others. This is nothing more than a way for you to rationalize away the very behavior you accuse conservatives of engaging in.


DMagoh is right. As it stands right now we have equal rights. I can not marry a person of the same sex and neither can you, unless you happen to live in California or Hawaii or some other state that has given this right to it's citizens. I can marry a person of the opposite sex and so can you. The states have always had laws about who can be married in their state and who can not. It has nothing to do with denying rights to people, solely because they're a minority. States deny rights to people all the time. In my state I'm denied the right to carry a gun into any establishment that serves alcohol, even though the same state has given me the right to carry a concealed weapon. Should I now behave like the homosexuals and cry foul, because I happen to be part of a minority that would like to have a drink while carrying my gun? Sometimes you just have to deal with the laws that are in effect.

If you haven't learned that life isn't fair by now, you probably never will. So you can't "marry" the person you love. News flash, marriage is between a man and a woman, so you can't get married anyway. You could enter into a civil union if you wish and hey knock yourself out. But the main reason I see people wanting to get married in the first place has nothing to do with love, but has to do with getting protections from the state. Also, when you do get the right to marry, and you most likely will, when will you guys be pushing for equal divorce laws as well?

 

[Caylin]

I'm not saying they are deliberately oppressing people, but that is what happens.

So the moral is life isn't fair and I should just deal with being second class?

 

[OllieFranz]

You and I have equal rights. You can marry any woman that agrees to marry you, just like me. I can’t marry a man, and neither can you. See, we have equal rights. You don’t want equal rights, you already have those. You want additional rights that you don’t already have, and neither does any one else.

No, she can't marry any woman that agrees to marry her. That is exactly the point!

And this is the exact same argument that was struck down in the Loving case in relationship to interracial marriage. The advocates of bigotry argued that a black man could marry a black woman just as a white manj could marry a white woman. Neither could marry outside their race, so both had equal rights. How is the argument any different?

 

[OllieFranz]

No, I'm not. You are projecting a false motive upon people. There can be no denying that. You are saying that the reason these people who vote against an issue is that they wish to oppress people. You have no way of proving that statement, because you don't know these people personally and have no way to determine what their motives are. It's just like when the conservatives say stuff like "the reason gays want to marry is so they can undermine the moral fabric of society." They have no way of proving that statement either and are projecting falsely. If I accused a conservative of making a false projection in response to such a statement, you'd fully agree with me. But when the shoe is on the other foot, you can't be honest enough to admit you're doing the same thing. Why is that?


Now let's take a look at the other side of the same coin. If you vote for or against an issue, how are you not forcing your morality and what you think is good upon others? Why is it only the conservatives that get hit with that accusation? Anybody who votes for or against anything, is forcing their view of what they think is right or wrong upon others. Own up to it. But you won't. You'll just reserve your condemnation for those who have the audacity to disagree with you, while telling yourself that you're looking out for the good of others. This is nothing more than a way for you to rationalize away the very behavior you accuse conservatives of engaging in.


DMagoh is right. As it stands right now we have equal rights. I can not marry a person of the same sex and neither can you, unless you happen to live in California or Hawaii or some other state that has given this right to it's citizens. I can marry a person of the opposite sex and so can you. The states have always had laws about who can be married in their state and who can not. It has nothing to do with denying rights to people, solely because they're a minority. States deny rights to people all the time. In my state I'm denied the right to carry a gun into any establishment that serves alcohol, even though the same state has given me the right to carry a concealed weapon. Should I now behave like the homosexuals and cry foul, because I happen to be part of a minority that would like to have a drink while carrying my gun? Sometimes you just have to deal with the laws that are in effect.

If you haven't learned that life isn't fair by now, you probably never will. So you can't "marry" the person you love. News flash, marriage is between a man and a woman, so you can't get married anyway. You could enter into a civil union if you wish and hey knock yourself out. But the main reason I see people wanting to get married in the first place has nothing to do with love, but has to do with getting protections from the state. Also, when you do get the right to marry, and you most likely will, when will you guys be pushing for equal divorce laws as well?

Many of those who defended the South's "peculiar institution" (A phrase used by the pro-slavery side!) did so for economic reasons that had nothing to do with racism and oppression. That did not change the fact that racism and oppression are inseparable from the type of slavery practiced in the early United States.

Even though their motives were "purer," these defenders of slavery still knew about its flaws, or they were "willfully ignorant" choosing to make sure that they remained innocent of the knowledge. Either way, reminding them of the seamy side of slavery, and calling them to task for their support of it was not only a legitimate tactic, but necessary to convince them.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Magoh
I am afraid gay and lesbian thinking doesn’t just do mental gymnastics.
It firstly denies what the Bible actually says in places and then makes an assumption based on that disbelief about what the Bible could mean.
How baseless can a view be? How much denial and disbelief can one have?
I recall a thread demonstrating how using the gay and lesbian arguments it is much easier to attempt to justify paedophilia than same-sex unions, this is a warning as to how far society can be damaged by this thinking. Romans 1 and 2 Peter 2 describe its source and consequences. It is not surprising therefore that the last sin at Sodom before its destruction was homosexual practice.

 

[KCKID]

I'm still looking for ONE verse in the Bible that mentions homosexual sex in a positive way.

Great! Could you let us know when you find it?

Meanwhile, keep looking ...whatever floats your boat!

Every time I see homosexuality mentioned, homosexuals are either being destroyed by God or condemned.

I think you might find that sodomy or rape is condemned in the Bible - NOT homosexuality and CERTAINLY not same sex relationships that we're discussing on this subforum where COMMITMENT between two partners is involved. You state above that God DESTROYS homosexuals in the Bible. What? That is simply not true! Where in the scriptures did God destroy homosexuals? And please don't say Sodom and Gomorrha, otherwise you'll be shot down in flames.

This is where you guys are missing the boat and putting your own biased slant on the scriptures. I don't have an agenda to push ...I'm not 'gay'. It's dishonest reporting and it has to stop.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear KCKID,

Great! Could you let us know when you find it?

great, that means your argument is baseless.

I think you might find that sodomy or rape is condemned in the Bible - NOT homosexuality

Both he and I see same-sex practice condemned.

You state above that God DESTROYS homosexuals in the Bible. What? That is simply not true! Where in the scriptures did God destroy homosexuals? And please don't say

Sodom and Gomorrha, otherwise you'll be shot down in flames.

Sodom. Its true. Of course it is you aren’t trying to claim people who have same-sex sex aren’t homosexual s are you? The verses have been given to you many times before, they are true, yoy just don’t believe them.
we can talk about your disbelief continually if you wish but we don’t want to, alas you have no Biblical evidence to support same-sex sex so your only basis is denial of the evidence we put forward.

This is where you guys are missing the boat and putting your own biased slant on the scriptures. I don't have an agenda to push ...I'm not 'gay'. It's dishonest reporting and it has to stop.

your argument is baseless, this forum is to discuss issues, if you have no evidence your continual criticism of the Biblical evidence we put forward must stop.
In short same-sex unions are condemned in the Bible as far as we are concerned and nowhere countenanced as far as we are all concerned.

The is no debate, same-sex unions are detestable to God who created man and woman to be united. All human justification is rebellion and disobedience to God.

 

[Caylin]

Well, he knows where I live and if it bothers him so much he can do something about it.