Anyone up for a chat thread?

[RamiC]

I am sitting here hoping that I do not get into trouble at work today. We are not supposed to socialise with service users without getting special permission. We are allowed to walk to a bus stop, shop or home in the same direction. Yesterday I left with a prospective service user, who was heading for the same sandwhich shop as me, and then I asked her what she intended to do next...she intended to taker her sandwhich to the beach, which is exactly what I was planning to do with mine. We sat down next to each other on the beach, because otherwise I would have to have suddenly announced that I now had to leave her alone, while I went to eat my sandwhich 50 yards further down the same beach, because suddenly the rules apply.

Right, time for a cup of coffee and a chat with Jesus, who might be able to console me.

 

[RamiC]

Thank you Paidiske. It seems all fine, my superiors were all too busy with other things to chase up petty details about my route home yesterday. Plus this lady still seems keen to get involved with our services as a way to meet her needs. If I need to I can present a case for how the circumstances were exceptional, and we were well within range of the city authority's security cameras on that spot of the beach.

 

[RileyG]

Today is the 7th anniversary of my ordination to the priesthood: the Commemoration of Blessed William Tyndale. The bishop is now retired. I'm more productive now than ever. Glory be to God on high. . .

God bless you abundantly!

 

[RileyG]

That's... not far away. I hope you have good support for recovery!

I know where I'm going next, now. It hasn't been publicly announced yet, so I have to be a bit discreet still, but at least I can start to plan the move and research schools and all of those things.

God bless you!

 

[Shane R]

I'm prepping for a first: a PCUSA (Presbyterian Church) called me recently and discussed having me come to do some services for them. Their pastor rather suddenly quit several weeks ago after his adult son committed suicide. Then the local presbytery came in and didn't really have much support to offer the congregation. But their organist knew of me from one of the Lutheran churches I go to. So she told them something like, "There's this pastor guy who does services for a bunch of different churches and he's pretty good and he's local." I talked to one of their elders on the session and we agreed I will not do any communion services (1st Sunday of the month) but the average Sunday service is not really far off from Antecommunion.

I'm quite excited because this church actually has a whole bunch of kids. They told me the ASA is 25 adults and 17 kids. They are right near the district line so a few may go to school with my daughters but most go to the bigger city school district nearby. It's a curious phenomenon of a low income neighborhood where the parents drop the kids off for basically free childcare of a Sunday morning but don't come to church themselves. So much potential here.

 

[RamiC]

It's a curious phenomenon of a low income neighborhood where the parents drop the kids off for basically free childcare of a Sunday morning but don't come to church themselves. So much potential here.

I meet people who grew up doing that, some became believers, but even those that did not say positive things about the church. It can be a lifeline for the children if they are under pressure at home.

"14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 19:14 NRSV

 

[Shane R]

My first Presbyterian service went very well. The bulletin I had been provided to prep was not altogether helpful and there are a couple of things I will prep differently next time. But that's the great thing, they told me I am a good preacher and booked me twice in November.

 

[Paidiske]

If you don't make a misstep from time to time, are you even trying?

But that's great feedback.

 

[RileyG]

My first Presbyterian service went very well. The bulletin I had been provided to prep was not altogether helpful and there are a couple of things I will prep differently next time. But that's the great thing, they told me I am a good preacher and booked me twice in November.

Awesome! That’s good to hear!

 

[seeking.IAM]

I attended a Presbyterian church in college upon encountering a closed cliquish group at my then-denomination's campus fellowship. The Presbyterian church sat on the edge of campus. It was a handful of us poor, motley college kids, blue-haired old ladies in minks, and a parking lot full of luxury cars. Rather irreverently, we called it "Our Lady of Cadillac." We had an extravagant welcome, and the preaching was dynamic. Fond memories.

 

[The Liturgist]

My first Presbyterian service went very well. The bulletin I had been provided to prep was not altogether helpful and there are a couple of things I will prep differently next time. But that's the great thing, they told me I am a good preacher and booked me twice in November.

How much do they let you get away of that could be described as high church or liturgical?

There are some very high church Presbyterian churches, the Scoto-Catholics, Reformed Catholics and in the US, the Mercersburg Theology movement, but unfortunately they aren’t ubiquitous, indeed one could argue the mainstream Presbyterian denominations are in some respects more low church now than it was in the 1950s, when the grandeur of the services of the mainline churches was remarkable, with liturgical colors, organ music and some fixed liturgical texts in use in nearly all of them.

 

[Shane R]

with liturgical colors, organ music and some fixed liturgical texts in use in nearly all of them.

That's more what this congregation looks like. They don't care too much what I wear since they haven't had a pastor wear anything but a clerical suit in years. We have an understanding that I can't celebrate the Holy Communion there but that's only the 1st Sunday of the month.

 

[RamiC]

That's more what this congregation looks like. They don't care too much what I wear since they haven't had a pastor wear anything but a clerical suit in years. We have an understanding that I can't celebrate the Holy Communion there but that's only the 1st Sunday of the month.

Are congregations usually tolerant and helpful when you do not know them yet?

 

[Paidiske]

In my experience, congregations become less tolerant and helpful the more they get to know you. It's like, they're willing to put up with (what they may see as) quirks or deficiencies early on, but over time any dissatisfaction becomes increasingly difficult to tolerate.

(Who me? At all cynical or bitter? Surely not).

 

[The Liturgist]

That's more what this congregation looks like. They don't care too much what I wear since they haven't had a pastor wear anything but a clerical suit in years. We have an understanding that I can't celebrate the Holy Communion there but that's only the 1st Sunday of the month.

splendid!

It’s nice to see a few parishes where the ethos of competition for liturgical beauty survives, especially in those denominations that used to be among those churches that in the 1950s had equally resplendent services, like the Congregationalists, Presbyterians and Methodists, but is now mostly limited to Anglicanism, Lutheranism and a few other traditional churches.

 

[Philip_B]

No, I don't think you are especially cynical. The relationship between the clergy and the people is a veritable minefield. A complex web of relationships and piles of expectations, both reasonable and unreasonable. Like any family, you need respect and an allowance for a little bit of wiggle room, and that passes both ways. Clergy especially need to be authentic, that is, they need to believe, and their belief needs to find expression in their life with the community of faith and in the wider community. And we all fail in this, and we are all called to have the grace to get up and keep trying.

In a large city, the problem parishioner may well be able to find their place in another community of faith. In rural and less populated areas, you may well be the only choice people have, so it is fitting to try and fit in a bit, without losing authenticity.

I am sure there is a potential PHD these on this stuff.

 

[Paidiske]

I know someone doing a PhD on clergy being bullied, so there's that!

 

[RamiC]

In my experience, congregations become less tolerant and helpful the more they get to know you. It's like, they're willing to put up with (what they may see as) quirks or deficiencies early on, but over time any dissatisfaction becomes increasingly difficult to tolerate.

(Who me? At all cynical or bitter? Surely not).

That is interesting, but we still love you on CF.

 

[Shane R]

There are always a couple of people who never wanted the minister they got and will never like the person. And there's nothing to be done for it. Best case scenario is them departing the congregation to go harass someone else.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Best case scenario is them departing the congregation to go harass someone else.

But it's their church, by crackey. Their great, great, granddaddy donated the tiny window in the foyer and there is a plaque there to prove it. They were there before this misbegotten priest showed up, and, God willing, they will be there after s/he leaves! In the meantime, they will let him/her know just how wrong they are about things, all in Christian love of course.