Anyone up for a chat thread?

Mhiriam · Jan 18, 2019

Same here - vicar and we have two curates (big church) - but sometimes when I want to get Andrew's attention for something I just call out, "Oi! Priest!" - Mark gets shy when I do that, so I desist.
Then we have a youth minister, children's minister etc.

(evangelical here, too)

PloverWing · Jan 18, 2019

This brings up a question I've wondered about: Here in Episcopal Church in the US, the term "rector" is used for the priest in a parish (a church that's financially self-supporting), and the term "vicar" is used for the priest in a mission (a church that is not financially self-supporting, usually because it's very small, and that is dependent on the diocese for a significant part of its funding). So it's odd to my ears to hear the term "vicar" used so widely in England, or, as in Mhiriam's post, to hear "vicar" used for a church that's so large that it has three clergy members. What does "vicar" mean in the UK and Australia?

(By the way, to my ears, "pastor" is a generic term, with no low-church connotations. I would use it of a Catholic priest or a Baptist minister, and I often use it when I'm trying to describe clergy without specifying a denomination. Probably one of those regional variations.)

Arcangl86 · Jan 18, 2019

PloverWing said:
This brings up a question I've wondered about: Here in Episcopal Church in the US, the term "rector" is used for the priest in a parish (a church that's financially self-supporting), and the term "vicar" is used for the priest in a mission (a church that is not financially self-supporting, usually because it's very small, and that is dependent on the diocese for a significant part of its funding). So it's odd to my ears to hear the term "vicar" used so widely in England, or, as in Mhiriam's post, to hear "vicar" used for a church that's so large that it has three clergy members. What does "vicar" mean in the UK and Australia?

(By the way, to my ears, "pastor" is a generic term, with no low-church connotations. I would use it of a Catholic priest or a Baptist minister, and I often use it when I'm trying to describe clergy without specifying a denomination. Probably one of those regional variations.)

And even that's not true everywhere. There are dioceses where vicar refers to anybody besides the settled pastor of a church.

Naomi4Christ · Jan 18, 2019

Mhiriam said:
Same here - vicar and we have two curates (big church) - but sometimes when I want to get Andrew's attention for something I just call out, "Oi! Priest!" - Mark gets shy when I do that, so I desist.
Then we have a youth minister, children's minister etc.

(evangelical here, too)

We call our lay ministers pastors, eg student pastor, youth pastor, children’s pastor.

We generally call everyone by their Christian name rather than job title, however.

If we are in the pub, we might call our ordained colleagues, REV.

Naomi4Christ · Jan 18, 2019

If they live in a vicarage, they are a vicar. If they live in a rectory, they are a rector.

In England, there is no legal distinction. These are historic terms which were distinct at one time.

Both offices are known as the incumbent. Back in the ancient days, a rector would receives the tithes. If a monastery was in charge of the Benefice, the tithe would go to them, but they would transfer about a third to a vicar to act vicariously (instead of them) for the spiritual care in their Benefice.

Outside the church, most clergymen/women would just refer to themselves as a vicar or training vicar, as that’s what the non-churchgoing public understand. I don’t think they would try to explain the role of rector or curate.

Paidiske · Jan 18, 2019

PloverWing said:
This brings up a question I've wondered about: Here in Episcopal Church in the US, the term "rector" is used for the priest in a parish (a church that's financially self-supporting), and the term "vicar" is used for the priest in a mission (a church that is not financially self-supporting, usually because it's very small, and that is dependent on the diocese for a significant part of its funding). So it's odd to my ears to hear the term "vicar" used so widely in England, or, as in Mhiriam's post, to hear "vicar" used for a church that's so large that it has three clergy members. What does "vicar" mean in the UK and Australia?

(By the way, to my ears, "pastor" is a generic term, with no low-church connotations. I would use it of a Catholic priest or a Baptist minister, and I often use it when I'm trying to describe clergy without specifying a denomination. Probably one of those regional variations.)

It varies by diocese. In my diocese - which is also where Mhiriam is - "vicar" is the term for a priest in charge of a parish. (So I'm a vicar). Rector is not used at all. But in neighbouring dioceses they use rector and not vicar. Historically the distinction was in how you got paid, but that doesn't apply any more.

To my ears, "pastor" is what you'd call a Lutheran, Baptist or non-denom minister; if I wanted to speak of clergy nonspecifically I'd use clergy, because ministers can be lay. I would not use pastor of, say, Catholics or Orthodox, and in Anglican use I find it... out of place. It's not an official title for anyone in Anglican use.

PloverWing · Jan 18, 2019

Naomi4Christ said:
Back in the ancient days, a rector would receives the tithes.

I've heard this phrase before, but I've never figured out what it means. A tithe has to mean something different in the UK from what it does in the US. Was it a kind of compulsory church tax? Did the whole amount of the tax go to the rector?

Paidiske · Jan 18, 2019

Yes, it was a kind of compulsory payment. A rector had the right to the "living" of the parish and would receive those payments. A vicar did not have the right to the "living" and typically received a set (not very generous) stipend for his duties.

Mhiriam · Jan 18, 2019

Naomi4Christ said:
We call our lay ministers pastors, eg student pastor, youth pastor, children’s pastor.

We generally call everyone by their Christian name rather than job title, however.

If we are in the pub, we might call our ordained colleagues, REV.

Yes, we use their Christian names as well - anyway, Andrew has found a way to get back at me, when I call him "Priest" he quotes the verse about all Christians being a royal priesthood

I've never heard the word "rector" used, either. Ah, church traditions.

Arcangl86 · Jan 18, 2019

But in my understanding the Rector also had certain financial responsibilities as well. So if my understanding is correct, it's sort of like the current offering except it was mandatory to everybody in the geographic parish.

Shane R · Jan 19, 2019

I'll look for my book of customaries and tell you the definitions of these things tomorrow. For Mhiriam's benefit, let it be known: I am outside of the Anglican Communion, in an independent jurisdiction. There are many of these; some more reputable than others.

And I noticed you mentioned most of the photos looked very high church to you. Well, that is why. Many of the photos are mine and we tend to the high churchmanship. I could point you to parishes (not necessarily in my jurisdiction) 10 degrees higher than anything I've posted. But that is not representative of TEC and not at all representative of ACNA (in the United States).

Mhiriam · Jan 19, 2019

That's OK Shane, I don't mind High as long as you're on the straight and narrow. As I said, I just don't have much experience in Anglican churches outside mine and St Pauls, which is very High and I was wondering. We're all Anglican here! Even more important, we're all followers of Christ.

PloverWing · Jan 20, 2019

I'm hearing news reports of Australian temperatures near 50C today. Australians on CF: How are you holding up? Are you melting?

Mhiriam · Jan 20, 2019

Not in Melbourne, although it's going to be 40oC later this week - maybe in Mildura or out in WA or northern SA? Do you know, Paidiske?

Paidiske · Jan 20, 2019

Inland New South Wales looks pretty hot. Basically those places closer to the centre than the sea, I guess.

It's predicted to be a very pleasant 25 where I am today. One good thing about living in the south; the winters are cold, but the summers are a bit less brutal!

Arcangl86 · Jan 20, 2019

Shane R said:
I'll look for my book of customaries and tell you the definitions of these things tomorrow. For Mhiriam's benefit, let it be known: I am outside of the Anglican Communion, in an independent jurisdiction. There are many of these; some more reputable than others.

And I noticed you mentioned most of the photos looked very high church to you. Well, that is why. Many of the photos are mine and we tend to the high churchmanship. I could point you to parishes (not necessarily in my jurisdiction) 10 degrees higher than anything I've posted. But that is not representative of TEC and not at all representative of ACNA (in the United States).

Speaking of high church, wasn't there something you had said you were going to share with the high church nerds here?

Mhiriam · Jan 20, 2019

Paidiske - what about when Melbourne gets hotter than Alice Springs? We get pretty hot here, frankly!

Paidiske · Jan 20, 2019

Oh, I'm not saying it doesn't get horribly hot here. But it's not like living in Coober Pedy or something.

(For our American friends, Coober Pedy is a town built almost entirely underground due to the incredible heat of its location. Giving an unusually literal meaning to the term "underground church"!)

seeking.IAM · Jan 20, 2019

Weather. So here is an interesting question: What weather extremes would occur before your church would cancel Sunday services? About 75 to 100 churches in my city canceled worship this morning after my city in the midwest USA got blanketed by snow yesterday. Missing from the closure lists were Roman Catholics and Episcopalians. I drove past several dark churches on my way to mass. I found it curious that the breakfast restaurant parking lots were full of cars, though.

Paidiske · Jan 20, 2019

The only time I've known that to happen, in a church I've been in, is where a storm has been bad enough to physically compromise the safety of the building. (Happened once. Hailstones bigger than golf balls smashed the clerestory windows and sent shards of glass flying all over the building minutes before a wedding was due to take place. And it was the cathedral, so there was a lot of glass!)

But we don't get snow... in the worst of the summer heat I beg to be allowed to leave off the chasuble!

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