Anyone up for a chat thread?

[Shane R]

The tonsuring of clerics. Me on the kneeler.

 

[Shane R]

Shane, you're married, I think I recall? Does the interviewer need to meet your wife too?

(When I went through the process here, the psych interviewer met me on my own once, then me and my husband together once as well).

It seems that an interview with her is not a normal procedure. However, the Bishop did send her some literature and asked her to submit a statement that she would support the church and specifically my ministry.

 

[Feuerbach]

View attachment 183167
The tonsuring of clerics. Me on the kneeler.

 

[Paidiske]

Ok, so something happened this morning and I'm wondering if my reaction is unreasonable, so naturally I'm asking all of you....

In the bigger parish where I work, we have a couple of people who need gluten-free wafers. We have had these wafers for some time and seem to have been able to manage them without cross-contamination (separate paten and all that).

In the latest batch of gluten-free wafers we've ordered, the wafers have come each individually sealed inside a plastic packet. My instinct would be to unwrap them before the service and then carry on as usual, but I've been told to consecrate and administer them wrapped, and let the person receiving manage the wrapper.

I really don't like the idea... since when does Jesus come to us in hermetically sealed individual portions, without any human contact? The symbolism is awful. And that doesn't even touch on what it will be like for the person receiving it - what are they supposed to do with the wrappers, etc?

But this is one of those, I'm the curate and I do as I'm told sort of situations, but... am I the only one who wouldn't choose to do this?

This is how they come:

 

[Neophyte365]

Paidiske,

That seems really strange to me too. And they make me think of after-dinner mints.

 

[Cappadocious]

That is really something.

 

[BelleC]

It doesn't seem right aesthetically but given the crazy allergies and things these days maybe it can be left to the affected parishioners to speak up if they feel this is unnecessary. I don't have allergies so I really can't say if I'd feel offended or reassured.

 

[Albion]

Ok, so something happened this morning and I'm wondering if my reaction is unreasonable, so naturally I'm asking all of you....

In the bigger parish where I work, we have a couple of people who need gluten-free wafers. We have had these wafers for some time and seem to have been able to manage them without cross-contamination (separate paten and all that).

In the latest batch of gluten-free wafers we've ordered, the wafers have come each individually sealed inside a plastic packet. My instinct would be to unwrap them before the service and then carry on as usual, but I've been told to consecrate and administer them wrapped, and let the person receiving manage the wrapper.

I really don't like the idea... since when does Jesus come to us in hermetically sealed individual portions, without any human contact? The symbolism is awful. And that doesn't even touch on what it will be like for the person receiving it - what are they supposed to do with the wrappers, etc?

But this is one of those, I'm the curate and I do as I'm told sort of situations, but... am I the only one who wouldn't choose to do this?

This is how they come:
View attachment 183290

A little while ago, suppliers came up with an idea in the USA that may not have affected your country. This was intended for non-liturgical churches having infrequent Communions, but it was a tiny cup, already filled with grape juice, upon which was packaged a host, paten-like, and the whole thing encased in the same kind of packet as shown in your picture. (These were also used by some TV evangelists who talked their viewers through an at-home Communion.)

Each communicant was to unwrap the thing and commune themselves in the usual way. The noise, and what to do with the paper, with some people having difficulty opening the package, and the general disarray stretching over a period of minutes caused the local congregation I'm thinking of to abandon it quite quickly. You don't have nearly as many people to use these hosts in your church, but still, I think it would be an unfortunate change.

 

[Paidiske]

I've heard of those, Albion, in use in Baptist (I think) churches in Asia. Maybe when the swine flu panic was high, and there was talk of limiting exposure to infection? (Although honestly, once you've gathered you might as well go ahead and share a cup, you've pretty much exposed yourself to anything you're likely to pick up).

But I've never actually seen them, so this was new in my lived experience. I don't think my vicar thought I was being very diplomatic...

 

[Feuerbach]

I

Ok, so something happened this morning and I'm wondering if my reaction is unreasonable, so naturally I'm asking all of you....

In the bigger parish where I work, we have a couple of people who need gluten-free wafers. We have had these wafers for some time and seem to have been able to manage them without cross-contamination (separate paten and all that).

In the latest batch of gluten-free wafers we've ordered, the wafers have come each individually sealed inside a plastic packet. My instinct would be to unwrap them before the service and then carry on as usual, but I've been told to consecrate and administer them wrapped, and let the person receiving manage the wrapper.

I really don't like the idea... since when does Jesus come to us in hermetically sealed individual portions, without any human contact? The symbolism is awful. And that doesn't even touch on what it will be like for the person receiving it - what are they supposed to do with the wrappers, etc?

But this is one of those, I'm the curate and I do as I'm told sort of situations, but... am I the only one who wouldn't choose to do this?

This is how they come:
View attachment 183290

I'm the administrator at a Lutheran church in town and every year for Easter we participate in a large joint service and I have to purchase 20 of those wafers (some 400ish people come) as part of our efforts in 'hospitality'. As it was explained to me, someone who truly can't have ANY gluten can't risk having the wafer contaminated by the celebrants hands. I'm with you though, it really undermines the symbolism.

 

[SteveCaruso]

This was intended for non-liturgical churches having infrequent Communions, but it was a tiny cup, already filled with grape juice, upon which was packaged a host, paten-like, and the whole thing encased in the same kind of packet as shown in your picture. (These were also used by some TV evangelists who talked their viewers through an at-home Communion.)

Here's a few varieties of them.

Though, from what I understand these were originally developed for having Eucharist in the trenches of WWII, but after the war manufacturers tried to start a market for them in said non-liturgical churches and televangelists and they enjoy some popularity(?) in a few areas.

A dear friend of mine refers to these as "Christables."

 

[Albion]

FWIW, these look like they'd be much easier to handle than the cellophane-encased hosts we were discussing. IF that's right to say, and my friend's church found using them to be just too distracting, I'd think that the gluten-free packet would be worse.

But of course there's the fact that the whole congregation was using the kind you showed, while only a few individuals would be using the other item in Paidiske's church. It still seems to me that there'd be some way to prepare the non-gluten hosts in advance without contaminating them and then distribute them in some way separate from the distribution going on with everyone else.

 

[Paidiske]

It's really not that hard, Albion. (To prepare in advance without contaminating). But since it's not my decision, that's what it will be.

I'm secretly feeling a bit vindicated that others here agree they're not ideal, though.

 

[Albion]

It's really not that hard, Albion. (To prepare in advance without contaminating). But since it's not my decision, that's what it will be.

I'm not surprised that it's not that hard, but I just didn't want to presume anything since I haven't seen the packets in person. But since you know that the matter could be handled in a better way, are you saying that any suggestion like that coming from you won't even be heard?

 

[Paidiske]

I don't think it would be heard, no.

Being the curate means that there are some things where you can make suggestions and have them taken up, and some things where your suggestions are not wanted and you do as you're told. A great deal of being a successful curate, in my experience, lies in discerning the difference and working creatively where you have scope.

As a general rule of thumb, I've found that suggestions which would impinge on a vicar's decisions/style/established practice around presiding are seldom welcome.

 

[Albion]

I don't think it would be heard, no.

Being the curate means that there are some things where you can make suggestions and have them taken up, and some things where your suggestions are not wanted and you do as you're told. A great deal of being a successful curate, in my experience, lies in discerning the difference and working creatively where you have scope.

As a general rule of thumb, I've found that suggestions which would impinge on a vicar's decisions/style/established practice around presiding are seldom welcome.

I'm sorry to learn that this is the case.

 

[Paidiske]

I think it's part of the nature of any sort of apprentice-type relationship. Yes, it's frustrating, sometimes, but there's a fairly natural and understandable set of reasons why this dynamic's pretty typical.

I'm fortunate; I've had two very good priests as my vicars while I've been a curate. Both have been supportive and encouraging and each (in their very different ways) has tried to help me make the most of the experience. But at the end of the day, curates come and go, and it's the vicar who's the stable presence and sets the tone for the parish.

 

[Arcangl86]

I really don't like the message just giving people the wrapped hosts. My apologies if this question is pushing the line, but do you think that he won't listen to you because you are "only" the curate or some other factor, be it age or gender?

 

[Paidiske]

My apologies if this question is pushing the line, but do you think that he won't listen to you because you are "only" the curate or some other factor, be it age or gender?

Not age or gender, I think. He approached me to take on this job, and has told me that he thought of me because he wanted a diverse team in terms of both age and gender.

But I think he'd made this decision before he showed the wafers to me, and then didn't want to have to re-think it. (I've found that some people - and my vicar is one of them - don't respond well when surprised. Often I'll say something or make a suggestion and he will eventually take it on board; but it might be several weeks later when he's had time to think about it. But put on the spot he tends to be fairly inflexible).

 

[graceandpeace]

I don't like the idea of giving the person a *wrapped* host for them to open. I have family members who manage various food allergies, but I just can't see this practice as a good thing. It would seem hand-washing & preparing the gluten-free hosts separately would be a sufficient solution. I understand the need to not cross-contaminate (touching the gluten-free hosts after touching the gluten ones) - but yea, there is a better solution than handing out wrapped hosts.