Anyone else have a unique eschatology?

[dwb001]

I'm not feeling the love from you here, dwb001. I'd like to, though.

Great... stop being confrontational and we can move on.

Remember that question I asked you yesterday: What is it you'd like to achieve in this thread? I'm still waiting to see you proceed on that answer.

Do better.

Do you recall my answer?
To sort and to sift.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Great... stop being confrontational and we can move on.

Do you recall my answer?
To sort and to sift.

That's no answer. It's not a clear answer. Why do you need to "sort and to sift." To put it that way almost sounds like you can pin which of the rest of us are "real Christians in the Spirit" and which ones are not.

OR, do you have some other kind of sorting you're wanting to do? Y'know, if you want friends and fellowship here, you need to do so with some amount of transparency and without mindgames. Without gaslighting.

 

[dwb001]

That's no answer. It's not clear answer. Why do you need to "sort and to sift." To put it that way almost sounds like you can pin which of the rest of us are "real Christians in the Spirit" and which ones are not.

It is an answer that you do not like... but it is an answer... why can you not understand.
I do not need to "sort and sift" but it is an answer to the question you asked... and now you don't want to accept my answer.
That is not the sifting and sorting process I am talking about.
I have covered this in previous posts... please don't make me repeat myself because you don't want to go back and find out.

OR, do you have some other kind of sorting you're wanting to do? Y'know, if you want friends and fellowship here, you need to do so with some amount of transparency and without mindgames. Without gaslighting.

Who said I want friends or fellowship here?
Do you see how much you are projecting your ideas onto me?
"Mindgames", "gaslighting"... I am asking for a person to show their true selves and you are doing a good job of that.


ps. I thought you wanted love between us... why did your very next post attack me again?
I didn't feel the love from you.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It is an answer that you do not like... but it is an answer... why can you not understand.
I do not need to "sort and sift" but it is an answer to the question you asked... and now you don't want to accept my answer.
That is not the sifting and sorting process I am talking about.
I have covered this in previous posts... please don't make me repeat myself because you don't want to go back and find out.

Who said I want friends or fellowship here?
Do you see how much you are projecting your ideas onto me?
"Mindgames", "gaslighting"... I am asking for a person to show their true selves and you are doing a good job of that.


ps. I thought you wanted love between us... why did your very next post attack me again?
I didn't feel the love from you.

I get it. The rest of us are all stupid and in need of a special

It is an answer that you do not like... but it is an answer... why can you not understand.
I do not need to "sort and sift" but it is an answer to the question you asked... and now you don't want to accept my answer.
That is not the sifting and sorting process I am talking about.
I have covered this in previous posts... please don't make me repeat myself because you don't want to go back and find out.

Who said I want friends or fellowship here?
Do you see how much you are projecting your ideas onto me?
"Mindgames", "gaslighting"... I am asking for a person to show their true selves and you are doing a good job of that.


ps. I thought you wanted love between us... why did your very next post attack me again?
I didn't feel the love from you.

I'm the one that is driving a wedge here? Au contraire my good fellow! Aren't you the one whose first words to me were:

So you do not believe the Bible.​

Why not?​

​

The better, more gracious statement and question you should have made is:

So you do not believe the Bible in the same way that I do.​

Why not?​

​

But, this isn't how you stated it, is it? No, you started with the implication that I was deficient. That's not usually a good way to engage from the start with your interlocutor. It's also not good to characterize someone else's point of view as "maggoty manna, " especially if you don't have the first inkling about what another person's point of view actually is.

You also need to learn to discern the difference between a critical evaluation and an attack.

 

[dwb001]

I get it. The rest of us are all stupid and in need of a special

Many of y'all are smarter than I could ever be.
But smart don't mean you can see straight.
Everyone has blind spots.
And I never claimed I was anything special.

I'm the one that is driving a wedge here? Au contraire my good fellow! Aren't you the one whose first words to me were:

So you do not believe the Bible.​

Why not?​

​

What was your post that precipitated my post.
Please don't only apply one side of the story.
That is a dishonest behavior.

The better, more gracious statement and question you should have made is:

So you do not believe the Bible in the same way that I do.​

Why not?​

​

So you want to tell me how I should speak.
Maybe if that was your response at the beginning I would have apologized right then and there.

But, this isn't how you stated it, is it? No, you started with the implication that I was deficient.

Not deficient... but unbelieving in the what the Bible says.
Do you see how you twisted my words right there?

That's not usually a good way to engage from the start with your interlocutor.

I never said I had social graces. I just asked questions.

It's also not good to characterize someone else's point of view as "maggoty manna, "

Not the point of view but the entire idea.

especially if you don't have the first inkling about what another person's point of view actually is.

Again if I got you confused with another person then sorry for that.

You also need to learn to discern the difference between a critical evaluation and an attack.

I probably wont learn anything new as I am an old dog.
Maybe if someone appears to be rough around the edges a more "mature" poster would extend grace.
How does that sound?

 

[Douggg]

I already said the person is not Jewish.

To be the heir to David's throne, the person has to be a Jew.

 

[dwb001]

To be the heir to David's throne, the person has to be a Jew.

Incorrect.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Many of y'all are smarter than I could ever be.
But smart don't mean you can see straight.
Everyone has blind spots.
And I never claimed I was anything special.

I doubt that I'm smarter than you. Maybe I've had more opportunity in life to learn some things, but I'm pretty sure God has given you a good share of intelligence.

What was your post that precipitated my post.
Please don't only apply one side of the story.
That is a dishonest behavior.

My post #33 apparently precipitated your post #36.

So you want to tell me how I should speak.
Maybe if that was your response at the beginning I would have apologized right then and there.

Not deficient... but unbelieving in the what the Bible says.
Do you see how you twisted my words right there?

You need to stop with the imputation that others here, or even myself, are twisting your words. And I've also asked you to stop with the insinuation that others don't believe in what the Bible says. Sure, I believe differently than you do on some moderate measure, but that in and of itself doesn't mean I disbelieve in God, or His Word, or that Jesus is who He said He was, or that He literally rose again from the dead and will some day Return.

You see, this is where being more pluralistic in your expectations for fellowship with other Trinitarian Christians can help us be more amiable with one another. I get tired of all the crappy insinuations from other Christians about supposedly "how I don't believe."

I never said I had social graces. I just asked questions.

You have the intelligence to learn then.

Not the point of view but the entire idea.

I don't accept "maggoty manna" as a descriptor for much, or any, of my belief, my sources or my Christian outlook upon life.

For those who think they're "Christian" and persist to insist on characterizing my faith in Christ in that way .......... they will be amply taken to task.

Again if I got you confused with another person then sorry for that.

If so, then I'll accept your apology.

I probably wont learn anything new as I am an old dog.
Maybe if someone appears to be rough around the edges a more "mature" poster would extend grace.
How does that sound?

I'm 54----no young'n by any measure. And I can always learn new tricks. I'll be happy to extend some grace.

 

[dwb001]

I doubt that I'm smarter than you. Maybe I've had more opportunity in life to learn some, but I'm pretty sure God has given you a good share of intelligence.

Thank you.

My post #33 apparently precipitated your post #36.

OK.

You need to stop with the imputation that others here, or even myself, are twisting your words. And I've also asked you to stop with the insinuation that others don't believe in what the Bible says. Sure, I believe differently than you do on some moderate measure, but that in and of itself doesn't mean I disbelieve in God, or His Word, or that Jesus is who He said He was, or that He literally rose again from the dead and will some day Return.

If you do twist my words then why should I not say so.
I have not in the previous post said you don't believe the Bible.
I was restating the previous discussion on the topic.

You see, this is where being more pluralistic in your expectations for fellowship with other Trinitarian Christians can help us be more amiable with one another. I get tired of all the crappy insinuations from other Christians about supposedly "how I don't believe."

Didn't understand your first sentence.
And if you actively say that a passage in the Bible does not say what it says... then I would have to say that there is some level of unbelief there.

You have the intelligence to learn then.

Yeah... but I wont. My choice.

I don't accept "maggoty manna" as a descriptor for much, or any, of my belief, my sources or my Christian outlook upon life.

Your choice.

For those who think they're "Christian" and persist to insist on characterizing my faith in Christ in that way .......... they will be amply taken to task.

Go for it.

If so, then I'll accept your apology.

Thank you.

I'm 54----no young'n by any measure. And I can always learn new tricks.

Same here... but it depends on the tricks.

 

[Douggg]

Incorrect.

Incorrect? Based on what bible verse(s) ?

Was Jesus not a Jew ? Jeremiah 23:5.

Try looking for a Jew, who would meet Judaism's expectation of the messiah, which is to be a noted politician and have military leadership.

From Judaism 101 site...

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

------------------------

The person I am keeping an eye on is Zelensky of Ukraine. A Jew. A great political leader. A great military leader. In the prime of his life.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If you do twist my words then why should I not say so.
I have not in the previous post said you don't believe the Bible.
I was restating the previous discussion on the topic.

Maybe keep this in mind: if another person isn't intending to gaslight you and they have perhaps merely misunderstood what you meant when you said what you said, then it's not usually accurate to say they have "twisted" your words. Usually, twisting comes along with sophistry, when others want to throw everyone into confusion by misrepresenting what you've actually said.

I'm not here to misrepresent you. If you feel I've misunderstood something you've said, then simple tell me that you think I've misunderstood. But if you claim that I'm "twisting" your words, then I'm going to take that as a form of gaslighting if, in all sincerity, I've been attempting to understand what you're saying.

Didn't understand your first sentence.
And if you actively say that a passage in the Bible does not say what it says... then I would have to say that there is some level of unbelief there.

Ok. That first sentence simply means that since there are so many denominations of Trinitarian Christianithy, simply be gracious and extend fellowship to other Christians without a high expectation of complete agreement or understanding on anything and everything we read in the Bible.

Yeah... but I wont. My choice.

Your choice.

No, that's not my choice. I perceive things as I perceive them. I can make a choice about who I will listen to or to what methods of investigation I will employ in order to find someting out and learn.

Go for it.

So, you somehow think that part of your Christian mission is to call others down, even citing their thoughts as "maggoty manna" and to hopefully do so without any resistence or disagreement with you? Please tell me you don't actually think this. I'd hate to find out I was "twisting" your words and diluting the real meaning of what it is you're wanting us to understand.

Same here... but it depends on the tricks.

The only "tricks" I learn are those that help me believe better in the face of an increasingly Skeptical World. If you don't need those tricks, then I'm not the kind of person (or Christian) who will insist that you either learn them or make your thinking correspond with my own. Unless of course, you start insisting first that my head is filled with "maggoty manna."

 

[dwb001]

Incorrect? Based on what bible verse(s) ?

Don't need to base it on a Bible verse.
Lineage is all that is required. And this boy(the one in question) has lineage coming out his ears.

Was Jesus not a Jew ? Jeremiah 23:5.

Relevance?

Try looking for a Jew, who would meet Judaism's expectation of the messiah, which is to be a noted politician and have military leadership.

I never said that this person matches Judaisms expectations.
Why always shifting the goalposts?

From Judaism 101 site...

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

I am not talking about the Messiah.

------------------------

The person I am keeping an eye on is Zelensky of Ukraine. A Jew. A great political leader. A great military leader. In the prime of his life.

Zelensky.... great???? At anything??????

 

[keras]

To be the heir to David's throne, the person has to be a Jew.

When Jesus Returns, He will sit on Davids Throne in the new Temple in Jerusalem.
Nowhere is it said there will be a Jewish King before Jesus.

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, as they just seem to be a battle of wits, of no use or value in the understanding of the Prophetic Word.
The fact is that the Lord has closed the eyes and stopped the ears of His Christian peoples. Isaiah 42:18-20
As Daniel 12:10b says: Only a few wise people will understand the Prophesies , then only just before it all happens.

We are told what to do: Stand firm in your faith and endure until the end.

 

[Douggg]

Zelensky.... great???? At anything??????

Can one man save the world....

 

[dwb001]

Can one man save the world....

That man is Jesus not some trumped up comedian.

 

[Douggg]

When Jesus Returns, He will sit on Davids Throne in the new Temple in Jerusalem.
Nowhere is it said there will be a Jewish King before Jesus.

John 5:43
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

 

[Douggg]

That man is Jesus not some trumped up comedian.

Putin's not laughing.

 

[dwb001]

Putin's not laughing.

Sure he is. And the comedian reference was to Zelenskies previous job.

 

[Douggg]

Clarify if you realize this may refer to many false teachers and false messiahs ?

In Jewish context, "the" mssiah is considered the promised great King of Israel descended from David, who will lead Israel and the world into a time of peace and safety. Also he will bring all of the house of Israel back to the land of Israel.

Broadly, in Jewish context, messiah means anointed and applies to the kings and priests. "the" messiah is that one special anointed.

The verse John 5:43 is referring to "the:" messiah. Which Jesus is "the" messiah coming in the name of the Lord. But because of being lead astray by the religious leaders of the time, who Jesus was critical of, the Jews rejected Jesus as their King of Israel.

Before the tide was turned by the religious leaders, many of the Jews thought that Jesus was the promised messiah, King of Israel, as it says in John 12:13.

John 12:12-13

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

So John 5:43 is in reference to another person that the Jews will accept, thinking he is their long awaited messiah, King of Israel. The Jews also believe to become the King of Israel, the person has to be anointed by a "known" prophet. Which they are also expecting Elijah to come to be a part of the messianic age start up.

In Revelation 13, the false prophet causes fire to come down from heaven - which Elijah also did in his battle with the prophets of Baal. For that reason, imo, the false prophet of Revelation 13, before he turns bad, like their perceived messiah the Antichrist, will present himself as Elijah, and will be the one who anoints the Antichrist person as the King of Israel. That person could be the Yanuka in Israel right now.

---------------------------------------------------------

Separately, Jesus did say that there would be false Christs (pretending to Him) and false prophets, in Matthew 24:24. Examples of such false Christs would be like José Luis de Jesús Miranda, Vissarion of Russia, John Miller of Australia.

 

[Douggg]

Sure he is.

Are you aware that there is a war going on Ukraine, involving Russian troops taking substantial losses ? Putin is not laughing.