Anybody here a Trinitarian Universalist?

[Starstreak M86]

Hey all!

I have recently become a Trinitarian Universalist. In that I have Trinitarian beliefs, and that I believe that all will be reconciled to God. I do not believe that "all paths lead to God", or that "Christ is not the only way". I still believe that Christ is the only way to the Father.

Is anybody else here a Trinitarian Universalist? (Amongst Universalists, I see a surprising common denial of the Deityhood of Christ, and the Deityhood of the Holy Spirt), I was wondering if I am alone in being a Universalist, yet still being Trinitarian.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Not at all. Many universalists are unitarian, for historical reasons, but not all.

I'm not sure I'm a universalist. I most certainly don't limit the scope of God's salvation to those who can sign on a particular doctrinal dotted line, however.

 

[Starstreak M86]

Not at all. Many universalists are unitarian, for historical reasons, but not all.

I'm not sure I'm a universalist. I most certainly don't limit the scope of God's salvation to those who can sign on a particular doctrinal dotted line, however.

Thanks!

I've just recently (in the last 2 weeks) become a Universalist, and so far, all I've seen is Christian Universalists who believe that "all ways lead to God" (which is not a Christian idea at all), or Universalists who are also Unitarian.

I've seen about 100 or so UU's, and only about 4 (including myself) TU's (Trintarian Universalists) who believe in Universal Reconcialition, not Universal Pluralism.

 

[Abiel]

So whats the difference between universal reconciliation and universal pluralism? I ask because I need to know.

 

[Sharp]

I can offer a non-trinitarian, non-universalist for you.

I was part of a church once that was part of an evangelical group that allowed optional views of the trinity. The brother of the 'bishop' was also a pastor in the denomination and the brother did not believe in the Trinity.

He fully believed in the Deity of Christ. His view was popularly called "Jesus Only" which says that Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Father are different manifestations of the One Person of God. The classic old definition from church history is 'anti-Sybellianism.' The church was not universalist at all.

I see anti-universalism as central to the Christian faith and a test of fellowship. It is a watershed dividing issue to evangelicals.

I think of unitarianism as meaning Jesus is not God. What do you mean by the term?

 

[Starstreak M86]

So whats the difference between universal reconciliation and universal pluralism? I ask because I need to know.

Abiel,
Universal reconciliation (in Christian context) means that "all will be reconciled to God through Christ". Universal pluralism means that "all religions lead to God, and God will accept all religions". I believe in Christian Universal Reconciliation, not Universal Pluralism.


Sharp,
I mean "Unitarian" as in not believing in the Deityhood of Christ and the Deityhood/Personality of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Received]

I reveal on occasion to a few that I am a universalist, and I tend to get thrown into the unitarian camp; but this is quite the fallacy to commit -- the earliest church fathers -- until Augustine -- were univeralists and were trinitarians; and every great Christian universalist -- from George MacDonald to William Law, etc. --, in view of my own research, has been a trinitarian.

 

[Received]

Oh, and for the new universalist (cheers!): a little George MacDonald as a substitute for our grape juice:

http://www.johannesen.com/SermonsSeriesI.htm
http://www.johannesen.com/SermonsSeriesII.htm
http://www.johannesen.com/SermonsSeriesIII.htm

http://www.johannesen.com/OnlineGMD.htm

Enjoy!

 

[Abiel]

Abiel,
Universal reconciliation (in Christian context) means that "all will be reconciled to God through Christ". Universal pluralism means that "all religions lead to God, and God will accept all religions". I believe in Christian Universal Reconciliation, not Universal Pluralism.


Sharp,
I mean "Unitarian" as in not believing in the Deityhood of Christ and the Deityhood/Personality of the Holy Spirit.

So whats the difference between reconciliation and salvation? Are some reconciled yet not saved?

 

[Card42]

i guess
if i was a universalist
i'd be a "trinitarian universal reconciliationist"
but i'm at the point now
where i just don't know

 

[Starstreak M86]

So whats the difference between reconciliation and salvation? Are some reconciled yet not saved?

Some are Saved, but not all are Reconciled. Reconciliation would be salvation after this eon.

I reveal on occasion to a few that I am a universalist, and I tend to get thrown into the unitarian camp; but this is quite the fallacy to commit -- the earliest church fathers -- until Augustine -- were univeralists and were trinitarians; and every great Christian universalist -- from George MacDonald to William Law, etc. --, in view of my own research, has been a trinitarian.

Thanks for the info! Yes, I too have heard that Origen, Justin the Martyr, Barnabas, Hermas, and Ignatius were Universalists.

I actually became a Universalist because studying the Bible changed me, I didn't plan to be one. 3 weeks ago, I was actually researching to prove that Hell was eternal! I typed "eternal punishment doctrine" into the search engine, and I got some websites that proved that the Hell is not eternal in the original Hebrew Tanankh and Greek Septuagint. The word "olam" (in Hebrew) or "aion" (in Greek) is translated in the KJV as "eternal" or "for ever", when it actually only means an age! Naturally, this was shocking to me at the time, and I refused to believe it at first, and it was about 5 more days of research before I actually accepted that the Eternal Punishment doctrine was man-made.

Thanks for the sites!

 

[1Truth]

Hello, I came across your post while doing a search on the internet for "Triniatarian Universalist" I was also wondering if there were many other such people in the world.

Just thought I would say I am a Trinitarian Universalist, and have been for a few years, if your interested, I have written a few articles on the topic of Christian Universalism, you can find them on my website, which is in my profile.

May the Truth be with you.

 

[Abiel]

Some are Saved, but not all are Reconciled. Reconciliation would be salvation after this eon.

So only some are saved
not all are reconciled

Isnt that the same then- it still leaves leftover people, neither saved nor reconciled

 

[Gish]

every great Christian universalist -- from George MacDonald to William Law, etc. --, in view of my own research, has been a trinitarian.

I think William Law believed that salvation was by sanctification, that (at least to a great extent) had to come about in this life.

In practice how many are going to be saved?

 

[Received]

I would love for you to point me in the direction of Law's statement that reveals such theology, for I completely agree. Redemption is a very misunderstood term, for it is very loosely defined in different contexts in the Old and New Testaments. The saints in the Old Testament had eventual hope for a resurrection they never heard preached to them, but they also spoke of the immediacy of Sheol as soon as they died. Their salvation was never the post-mortem understanding conventional theology preaches; and this doesn't change with the New Testament -- the understanding of salvation is being saved from sins (Matthew 1:21), and knowing God (John 17:3); the understanding as post-mortem is not scriptural.

 

[Starstreak M86]

Hello, I came across your post while doing a search on the internet for "Triniatarian Universalist" I was also wondering if there were many other such people in the world.

Just thought I would say I am a Trinitarian Universalist, and have been for a few years, if your interested, I have written a few articles on the topic of Christian Universalism, you can find them on my website, which is in my profile.

May the Truth be with you.

1Truth,
Hello, bro!

I am glad to find another person like myself out there. Nice to meet you!

Could you post a link to your site?

Thanks!
--M86


Abiel,
I mean "some are Saved" as in some have accepted Christ. Not all will accept Christ in this age (anyone who reads the Bible knows that, otherwise there would be no need for the Tribulation), but eventually all will accept Him in the hereafter (The Great Reconcilation) talked about in Hebrews 9 and the end chapters of Revelations.

 

[1Truth]

1Truth,
Hello, bro!

I am glad to find another person like myself out there.

Nice to meet you!

Could you post a link to your site?

Nice to meet you too!

and thanks for the welcome in my CF guestbook! It is always encouraging to meet believers that share in the truth of God's universal love and salvation of mankind.

I can't post a link to my site, since I am new to the forum, and according to the rules I am not allowed to post links to sites outside of Christian Forums in my first 15 posts. But my homepage is listed in my profile which can be accessed at any of the below addresses:

http://www.christian-forums.com/u79410
http://www.christianforums.com/u79410
http://www.christianforums.com.au/u79410

Anyway, if you do find your way to my site, the stuff on Christian Universalism is in the section for "Seasoned Readers", and if you do read the stuff, any feedback is more than welcome. I am still working on further refining the articles, since they are a bit messy to read, but all the basic information is there.

Your bro in the Truth.

 

[Abiel]

Abiel,
I mean "some are Saved" as in some have accepted Christ. Not all will accept Christ in this age (anyone who reads the Bible knows that, otherwise there would be no need for the Tribulation), but eventually all will accept Him in the hereafter (The Great Reconcilation) talked about in Hebrews 9 and the end chapters of Revelations.

So those people who are unsaved but reconciled- where do they go when dead? Where do they spend eternity?

 

[Starstreak M86]

So those people who are unsaved but reconciled- where do they go when dead? Where do they spend eternity?

They spend a time in Hell, then spend eternity in Heaven. After realizing and confessing that "Jesus is Lord" (Revelations), and have been adequately punished for their sins.

 

[Abiel]

They spend a time in Hell, then spend eternity in Heaven. After realizing and confessing that "Jesus is Lord" (Revelations), and have been adequately punished for their sins.

I do like the sound of this...any scripture to back it up- cos even if I like it, it doesnt make it so.