Any scriptural evidence that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?

helmut said:

The 614 mitzwot the rabbis have counted in the Pentateuch? The commands of Jesus and His apostles? There are plenty of possibilities, the 10 commandments are only one of many options.

Which option is the correct exegesis, should be judged by the whole body of Scripture, not by a tradition that highlights the 10 commandments.

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I see so you make animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of your sins? If not why not?

helmut said:

Who says so? Is there any scriptural evidence that the 4th commandment does not refer to all the Sabbaths mentioned in the Pentateuch? Is there any verse in the Bible that says the weekly Sabbath is higher than the annual sabbaths? And is there any scriptural evidence (not just the opinion of men) that the sabbaths Col 2:16 do not include the weekly sabbath?

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God's Word says so (not mine) and indeed there is plenty of scriptural evidence that there is many kinds of old testament sabbaths in the old testament that were not God's 4th commandment Sabbath and no these are God's Word not mine or my opinion....

Some try to claim by pulling scripture from context that Paul is teaching in Colossians 2:16-17 that God's 4th commandment is a "shadow law" of the old covenant fulfilled in Christ without considering that there were many different kinds of annual ceremonial "sabbaths" in the old covenant from the Mosaic book of the law that were not God's 4th commandment “seventh day” Sabbath. Some of these annual ceremonial sabbaths that were not God’s 4th commandment and could fall on any day of the week included the ceremonial sabbaths in the feast days and days of holy convocation where no work was to be done.

These ceremonial sabbath(s) and days of holy convocation excluding work included…

(1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8
(2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25
(3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32
(4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36
(5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39
(6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36
(7) Sabbath rest of the land (7-year cycle) *Leviticus 25:2
(8) Sabbath of Jubilee culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *Leviticus 25:9-54

All of the above of course were different to God’s 4th commandment and could fall on any day of the week unlike Gods’ 4th commandment which is strictly every ) “seventh day” of the week.

(9) God’s Sabbath of the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments which is one of God’s 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Exodus 20:8-11 and a “memorial” and celebreation of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth outlined in Genesis 2:1-3.

When these annual ceremonial sabbaths which could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle, fell on God’s 4th commandment weekly Sabbath it was called a “High Sabbath” as two sabbaths in one (see JOHN 19:31; more here). So one of the questions we need to consider is what sabbath plural was Paul talking about in COLOSSIANS 2:16-17. It cannot be “the Sabbath” of God’s 4th commandment as the Greek application and use in Colossians 2:16 is GNP which means genitive neuter plural meaning plural application. The within chapter and scripture contexts will help to show what sabbaths are being referring to so we will look at both the within chapter and within scripture contexts to help determine the Greek word application.

Greek application of sabbath and word meanings why are they important here?

Keep in mind here that the Greek word for sabbath is σάββατον; sabbaton (G4521). The Greek word for Sabbath unlike the Hebrew has many different meanings and application depending on the context that it is used and can mean; (1). the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath of Gods 4th commandment), or (2) day of weekly repose from secular work; (3) the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath day, or (4) a week.

So with the many meaning and application of the Greek word for sabbath (sabaton) it is the context as to how it is used that determines the application and word meaning. The above is only provided to show that the Greek word for sabbath has many different meanings and applications and is different to the Hebrew meaning which for sabbath is שׁבּת; shabbâth (H7676) which simply means the Sabbath or from one sabbath to another. This word has its' root word in שׁבת; shâbath (H7673) which means to rest, stop work, to cease and celebrate and to keep sabbath.

So why is this important?

The Greek word has a higher use definition which is outside of the Hebrew. For example sabbaton can be applied to the week (not the Sabbath) or any day of weekly repose (ceasing from work) that is not the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment. Sabbaton can also be applied to the intervals between the seventh day sabbath as well as God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath.

The questions that need to be considered here to correc are …

(1) How do we know what the Greek word sabbaton is being applied to in Colossian 2:16-17?
(2) What is the within chapter and scripture contexts of Colossians 2:16-17?
(3) What sabbath plural are being referred to in Colossians 2:16-17 and are they shadows?
(4) Is Paul possibly referring to something in the old testament?
(5) How does what Paul is saying in Colossians 2:16-17 link to the scriptures in rest of the bible?

Here in this post we have only touched the surface and have shown through the scriptures alone that there are many different kinds of ceremonial sabbaths of the old testament which include the annual shadow sabbaths in the feast days, the days of holy concovation where no work was to be done and the sabbaths of the land all of which are not God’s 4th commandment of the 10 commandments and can fall on any day of the week.

We have also shown in this post by God’s grace that the Greek word used for sabbath has many meanings and applications determined by the within scripture chapter and contexts and is not always a reference to God’s 4th commandment but can mean simply ceasing from weekly work or a week or the days inbetween the Sabbath as well as God’s 4th commandment Sabbath. Notice that none of the above shared here is considered at all when surface reading Colossians 2:16-17 pulled from it’s contexts to the rest of the old and new testament scriptures.

Happy to share more scripture dear friend if your interested just let me know.

Hope this helps.

helmut said:

"Deeper" is sometimes a camouflage for "discussing the obvious away".

You should not start with such deeper knowledge (in it is deeper), but show how Scripture tells this. Just saying "this is not about the 4th commandment" is not enough, you have to prove it (which you haven't done yet).

Repetition of unproven statements is propaganda, teaching is proving the things yet unproven.

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Why would you think I have not provided scripture support? (scripture support here and here linked). For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Romans 3:4 over what JESUS says is the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9.

helmut said:

In the OT background, the rest is primarily the land of Canaan. Yet Hebrew states that this is only outwardly, the real meaning is spiritual - and so he can introduce the Psalm word about another rest.

In analogy, we should expect the real meaning of sabbatismos in Heb 4:11 a spiritual one, not the outwardly "keeping the Sabbath".

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Not according to the scriptures. Your neglecting the context of Hebrews 4:9 which is defining "Gods' rest" as the "seventh day" of creation. Let's add the context back and look at the Greek.

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], FOR UNTO US WAS THE GOSPEL PREACHED AS WELL AS UNTO THEM: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For WE WHICH HAVE BELIEVED HAVE ENTERED INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED SINCE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:1-5

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do not enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.
[10], For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], LET US LABOR THEREFORE TO ENTER THAT REST, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

...............

The Aramaic translation says in HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Most of the other translations use...

HEBREWS 4:9 THERE REMAINS A SABBATH REST TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD (also good)

Which ever translation you want to use whether Greek of Aramaic it still works out the same. "There still remains a Sabbath rest (Sabbatismos is the verbal noun for keeping the Sabbath).

Let's look further at the Greek?

The Greek of Hebrews 4:9 is...
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα απολείπεται σαββατισμός τω λαώ του θεού (ABPi)

The highlighted part of the Greek above is the Greek Word sabbatismos

Let's now look at the Greek Dictionaries, and Lexicons for word meaning and applications so you can see I am not reading into the scripture what the scripture does not say. The root word of sabbatismos is from sabbaton (Translated Sabbath in the Greek).

Let’s look at the meaning of Sabbatismos…

Strongs Concordence

SABBATISMOS: a sabbath rest; Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ; Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine; Transliteration: sabbatismos; Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos') Short Definition: a Sabbath rest; Main Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Abbot Smiths Greek Lexicon of the New Testament
*†σαββατισμός, -οῦ, ὁ (<σαββατίζω, TO KEEP THE SABBATH, Exo 16:30, al.), A KEEPING SABBATH, A SABBATH REST: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†

BDAG
σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ (σαββατίζω; Plut., Mor. 166a cj.; Just., D. 23, 3) sabbath rest, sabbath observance fig. Hb 4:9 a special period of rest for God’s people modeled after the traditional sabbath (CBarrett, CHDodd Festschr. ’56, 371f [eschat.]).—S. on κατάπαυσις HWeiss, CBQ 58, ’96, 674–89. M-M. TW.

SABBATISMOS is taken from SABBATON meaning THE REST GIVEN IN GOD'S SEVENTH DAY SABBATH.

NOTE: The cyriac or Aramaic form of from which SABBATISMOS is taken is therefore the most accurate that agrees to the original Greek translation and reads...

HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Further note; In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

................

SUMMARY: The original Greek supports the Aramaic English translation of Hebrews 4:9. The original Greek shows that the Greek word Sabbatismos used in Hebrews 4:9 is the root word of Sabbaton (Sabbath in Greek to Engish) and that it is the verb of doing Sabbath or Sabbath keeping while the noun of what is being kept is the Sabbath itself (Sabbaton). There fore the Aramaic translation of Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH is an accurate translation that agrees with the Greek. Finally even if you want to use the common English translation which is also correct Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE A SABBATH REST REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD. It is also accurate use in keeping the Sabbath by resting and resting is how the Sabbath is kept or what it means to keep the Sabbath.

Hope this helps..

helmut said:

There was a post that showed Scriptural evidence that the Sabbath commandment was revealed on mount Sinai.

I looked into my Bible program and found the passage: Neh 9,13-14.

AFAIR, the posting also explained the "remember" in Ex 20:8 refers to the first introduction of the Sabbath in Ex 16:22-30.

Do you have any clue (from Scripture, or from archeology or so) that the Sabbath was known before Mose?

If not: Do you believe Scripture that says the Sabbath was made known on Sinai, or do you want to speculate against Scripture?

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It`s not a hang up of mine and I`ve never tried to put together an argument that absolutely proves it.
Adam and his descendants made animal sacrifice and worshipped God. The Bible doesn`t give us very much on that but it is logical to believe they worshipped God on Sabbath. The language used in your passages and others indicates that the sabbath existed before the mount Sinai people knew about it. I believe knowledge of sabbath had been lost and recovered through God`s revelations to Moses (i.e. the book of Genesis was a book of lost knowledge.)


Nehemiah 9:13-14
King James Version

13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

RickReads said:

There is debate about that. I`m inclined to believe the Sabbath has been known from the time of Adam.
I don`t think it was a secret.

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You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis, nor find Abraham or anyone else in Genesis resting on the 7th day - because there was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.

Moses said no one had the law the law God gave to Israel, until God gave it to him on Mount Sinai:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with OUR FATHERS, but with US evenus, who are all of us here alive THIS day.


And God says why and to who, He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and thatthe LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for itisa SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that yemay know that I amthe LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.


God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:


Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.


Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.


Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.

chad kincham said:

You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis, nor find Abraham or anyone else in Genesis resting on the 7th day - because there was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.

Moses said no one had the law the law God gave to Israel, until God gave it to him on Mount Sinai:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with OUR FATHERS, but with US evenus, who are all of us here alive THIS day.


And God says why and to who, He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and thatthe LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for itisa SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that yemay know that I amthe LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.


God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:


Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.


Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.


Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.

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The Ten Commandments didn't End.

We are still not to Murder, we are still not to Steal, we are still not to have gods beside God.

eleos1954 said:

The significance is this ...

The Seventh Day
(Exodus 16:22–30; Hebrews 4:1–11)

1Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2And by the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on that day He rested from all His work.

3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified (made it holy - set it apart from all other days) it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished.

Hebrews 4

The Sabbath Rest
(Genesis 2:1–3; Exodus 16:22–30)

1Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it. 2For we also received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith of those who comprehended it.3Now we who have believed enter that rest. As for the others, it is just as God has said:

“So I swore on oath in My anger,
‘ They shall never enter My rest.’ ”

And yet His works have been finished since the foundation of the world. 4For somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this manner: “And on the seventh day God rested from all His works.” (referring to Genesis)

5And again, as He says in the passage above: “They shall never enter My rest.6Since, then, it remains for some to enter His rest, and since those who formerly heard the good news did not enter because of their disobedience*, 7 God again designated a certain day as “Today, when a long time later He spoke through David as was just stated: “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

9There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God (not just Jews). 10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His (referring to Genesis 7th day). 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest (that rest 7th day He created), so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

*Not entering His rest (7th day Sabbath) was/is considered disobedience.

The context of the passage is the 7th day He created in Genesis (the day of rest He created for all of mankind).

Mark 2:27

Berean Study Bible
Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

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Hebrews 4 is talking about the coming millennium, which the early church taught would come 6 thousand years after Adam, when Jesus returns and the millennium is the seven thousandth year, aka Gods rest for His people.

chad kincham said:

You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis, nor find Abraham or anyone else in Genesis resting on the 7th day - because there was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.

Moses said no one had the law the law God gave to Israel, until God gave it to him on Mount Sinai:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with OUR FATHERS, but with US evenus, who are all of us here alive THIS day.


And God says why and to who, He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and thatthe LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for itisa SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that yemay know that I amthe LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.


God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:


Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.


Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.


Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.

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It seems like the idea that sabbath predates the law would strengthen the case for sabbath observence. If you deny that and tie sabbath exclusively to Moses then you have no case to continue in it.

You might as well regard every day the same as I do.

chad kincham said:

Hebrews 4 is talking about the coming millennium, which the early church taught would come 6 thousand years after Adam, when Jesus returns and the millennium is the seven thousandth year, aka Gods rest for His people.

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differ on the view ... the millennium is spent in heaven not on earth, the 1,000 years is in between the 1st and 2nd resurrections. It is true we will be in His Sabbitismos in heaven and on into eternity ;o)

John 14:3

2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.

ie where I am - Jesus is in heaven.

eleos1954 said:

the millennium is spent in heaven not on earth,

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The millennium is absolutely the kingdom of God coming physically to the earth, and Jesus rules the nations with a rod of iron.

When Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit, he gathers armies to surround the city Jesus is ruling from.

Believers rule and reign with Jesus as kings on the earth:

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

chad kincham said:

You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis,

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Why do you keep saying that, i have already proven you wrong on this...it is plain as day in Hebrew...

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Why do you keep saying that, i have already proven you wrong on this...it is plain as day in Hebrew...

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I have bible software - the word sabbath, SHABBATH is found 77 times in the OT, starting with Exodus.

Genesis does not contain the word sabbath, nor show Abraham resting on the 7th day sabbath, nor anyone else, and God commanded no one to rest on the seventh day in Genesis.

There was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.


Moses said no one had the law the law God gave to Israel, UNTIL God gave it to him on Mount Sinai:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US even-us, who are all of us here alive THIS day.


And God says WHY and to WHO, He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and thatthe LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for it is a SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that ye May know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.


God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:


Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.


Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.


Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.

chad kincham said:

Hebrews 4 is talking about the coming millennium, which the early church taught would come 6 thousand years after Adam, when Jesus returns and the millennium is the seven thousandth year, aka Gods rest for His people.

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Actually no. Hebrew 4 is talking about God's 4th commandments Sabbath.
HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

chad kincham said:

You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis, nor find Abraham or anyone else in Genesis resting on the 7th day - because there was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.

Moses said no one had the law the law God gave to Israel, until God gave it to him on Mount Sinai:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with OUR FATHERS, but with US evenus, who are all of us here alive THIS day.


And God says why and to who, He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and thatthe LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for itisa SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that yemay know that I amthe LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.


God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:


Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.


Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.


Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.

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Trouble is where your interpretation falls down is that there was no Israel when God made the Sabbath for all mankind according to the scriptures, no Jew, no Moses, no Egypt *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27. Only mankind represented by Adam and Eve who God blessed it for and made it a holy day of rest. We are in the new covenant now not the old. God's Israel in the new covenant according to the scriptures are all those who believe and follow God's Word and no longer those of the flesh but of the Spirit *Romans 9:6-8. There is no more any Jewish and Gentile believers as we are all one in Christ *Galatians 3:28-29. Gentiles are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27; Ephesians 2:11-14. If we are not a part of God's Israel then we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12.
Something to pray about.

LoveGodsWord said:

Actually no. Hebrew 4 is talking about God's 4th commandments Sabbath.
HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

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That’s not what it means. Try reading some scholarship on that passage:

It means here “a resting,” or an observance of sacred repose - and refers undoubtedly to heaven, as a place of eternal rest with God. It cannot mean the rest in the land of Canaan - for the drift of the writer is to prove that that is “not” intended.

It cannot mean the “Sabbath,” properly so called - for then the writer would have employed the usual word σάββατον sabbaton - “Sabbath.”

It cannot mean the Christian Sabbath - for the object is not to prove that there is such a day to be observed, and his reasoning about being excluded from it by unbelief and by hardening the heart would be irrelevant.

It must mean, therefore, “heaven” - the world of spiritual and eternal rest; and the assertion is, that there “is” such a “resting,” or “keeping of a Sabbath” in heaven for the people of God. Hence, learn:

(1) That heaven is a place of cessation from wearisome toil. It is to be like the “rest” which God had after the work of creation (Heb 4:4, note), and of which that was the type and emblem

chad kincham said:

That’s not what it means. Try reading some scholarship on that passage:

It means here “a resting,” or an observance of sacred repose - and refers undoubtedly to heaven, as a place of eternal rest with God. It cannot mean the rest in the land of Canaan - for the drift of the writer is to prove that that is “not” intended.

It cannot mean the “Sabbath,”

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There remains "a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - remains from when?
answer - remains as it was in the time of David.

ok - What was the Sabbath rest at the time of David in Psalms 95:11?


They did enter Caanan. Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory before the cross happens - Matthew 17.

All the giants of faith in Hebrews 11 held up as examples for the NT saints - are from the OT.

Heb 4 points to those who were in rebellion and says they did not enter God's rest.

In Hebrews 10 you see "He TAKES AWAY the first - to establish the second" regarding animal sacrifices.
by contrast in Heb 4 we have "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God".

And we know from Isaiah 66:23 that this continues on for all eternity after the cross "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

We have the example of "he takes away" in Heb 10 contrasted with "there REMAINS".

If the 7th day Sabbath had been taken away it would be a very bad thing to make it a symbol of some greater rest - for it was taken away.

"I am the bread of life" John 6 - not "I am the dried out brittle old wine skin you just tossed out" - because "bread" is still of value and Christ compares Himself with something that continues to be of value - as a symbol of even more enduring value.

We know the Sabbath is of enduring value for all eternity from Isaiah 66:23 "for all mankind" and so in Heb 4 the greater rest can be symbolized by the Sabbath as it is not dead and gone -- but rather (like the bread) of enduring value. A fit symbol.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Actually no. Hebrew 4 is talking about God's 4th commandments Sabbath.HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

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Your response here...

chad kincham said:

That’s not what it means. Try reading some scholarship on that passage:

It means here “a resting,” or an observance of sacred repose - and refers undoubtedly to heaven, as a place of eternal rest with God. It cannot mean the rest in the land of Canaan - for the drift of the writer is to prove that that is “not” intended.

It cannot mean the “Sabbath,” properly so called - for then the writer would have employed the usual word σάββατον sabbaton - “Sabbath.”

It cannot mean the Christian Sabbath - for the object is not to prove that there is such a day to be observed, and his reasoning about being excluded from it by unbelief and by hardening the heart would be irrelevant.

It must mean, therefore, “heaven” - the world of spiritual and eternal rest; and the assertion is, that there “is” such a “resting,” or “keeping of a Sabbath” in heaven for the people of God. Hence, learn:

(1) That heaven is a place of cessation from wearisome toil. It is to be like the “rest” which God had after the work of creation (Heb 4:4, note), and of which that was the type and emblem

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Hmmm... nope! That is exactly what it means...

HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

Go look them up...

The Aramaic translation says in HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Most of the other translations use...

HEBREWS 4:9 THERE REMAINS A SABBATH REST TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD (also good)

Which ever translation you want to use whether Greek or Aramaic it still works out the same. "There still remains a Sabbath rest/Sabbath keeping (Sabbatismos is the verbal noun for keeping the Sabbath).

The Greek of Hebrews 4:9 is...

HEBREWS 4:9 άρα απολείπεται σαββατισμός τω λαώ του θεού (ABPi)

The highlighted part of the Greek above is the Greek Word sabbatismos

Let's now look at the Greek Dictionaries, and Lexicons for word meaning and applications so you can see I am not reading into the scripture what the scripture does not say. The root word of sabbatismos is from sabbaton (Translated Sabbath in the Greek).

Let’s look at the meaning of Sabbatismos…

Strongs Concordence
SABBATISMOS: a sabbath rest; Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ; Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine; Transliteration: sabbatismos; Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos') Short Definition: a Sabbath rest; Main Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Abbot Smiths Greek Lexicon of the New Testament
*†σαββατισμός, -οῦ, ὁ (<σαββατίζω, TO KEEP THE SABBATH, Exo 16:30, al.), A KEEPING SABBATH, A SABBATH REST: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†

BDAG
σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ (σαββατίζω; Plut., Mor. 166a cj.; Just., D. 23, 3) sabbath rest, sabbath observance fig. Hb 4:9 a special period of rest for God’s people modeled after the traditional sabbath (CBarrett, CHDodd Festschr. ’56, 371f [eschat.]).—S. on κατάπαυσις HWeiss, CBQ 58, ’96, 674–89. M-M. TW.

The Anchor Bible Dictionary
This term appears also in Plutarch (Superset. 3 [Moralia 166a]) for sabbath observance or keeping, and in four post-canonical Christian writings which are not dependent on Heb. 4:9 (The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 5, p. 856).

Arndt and Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament
The translation for "Keeping Sabbath" comes from the Greek word that is used in Hebrews 4:9, σαββατισμός, pronounced sabbatismos, which is a noun form that means Sabbath rest, Sabbath keeping observance. This definition of the Greek word σαββατισμός sabbatismos is confirmed by other historical works: The words 'keeping sabbath' or sabbath rest is translated from the GK noun sabbatismos, [and is] a unique word in the NT. The Greek word, σαββατισμός sabbatismos, is a noun. The verbal form of the word is σαββατίζω sabbatizo, which means to keep the Sabbath

This definition of σαββατίζω Sabbatizo is confirmed by its use in the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament which dates from third century BC. It is called the Septuagint, meaning Seventy because the first five books were translated by seventy scholars who were Greek-speaking Jews in Alexandria, Egypt. Jews used the Septuagint in synagogues throughout the Roman empire, and by the Greek-speaking Jewish and Gentile coverts in the early New Testament church. The apostle Paul quotes extensively from the Septuagint in his epistle to the Hebrews. When Paul used the Greek word σαββατισμός sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9, he knew that the meaning of this word was well known to the Greek-speaking believers of that day. The verb form σαββατίζω, sabbatizo was used in the Septuagint which was as familiar to the Greek-speaking Jews and Gentiles of New Testament times as the King James Bible is to Christians today.

The use of the verb σαββατίζω sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 in the Septuagint leaves no room to mistake its meaning. The Greek English Lexicon of the Septuagint defines σαββατίζω sabbatizo as to keep sabbath, to rest (Lust, Eynikel, Hauspie). The English translation of this verse in the Septuagint reads: It [the Day of Atonement] shall be a holy sabbath [literally, a Sabbath of Sabbaths] to you; and ye shall humble your souls, from the ninth day of the month: from evening to evening shall ye keep your sabbaths (The Septuagint With the Apocrypha, Brenton).

The phrase shall ye keep your sabbaths is translated from the Greek phrase σαββατιείτε τα σάββατα sabbatieite ta sabbata, which literally means, You shall sabbathize the Sabbaths. The form of the Greek verb σαββατίζω sabbatizo is the second person plural σαββατιείτε sabbatieite, which means, ye shall keep. Since the verb sabbathize, means to keep the Sabbath, this verb is a special verb that also relates to and defines Sabbath-keeping, for God’s command for the land Sabbath every seven years. In the entire Septuagint, the verb σαββατίζω sabbatizo is never used to define the keeping of anything else. Rather, it is always used in relation to Sabbath-keeping and Sabbath-keeping only. In keeping with this definition, the KJV translates σαββατιείτε sabbatieite, this way: shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

There is no question that the Greek verb σαββατίζω sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 is specifically referring to Sabbath observance. This meaning applies equally to the noun form σαββατισμός sabbatismos, which we find in Paul’s epistle to Hebrews. The fact that Paul used the Septuagint translation in this epistle confirms that the meaning word σαββατισμός sabbatismos, in Hebrews 4:9, is in complete accord with the meaning of σαββατιείτε τα σάββατα sabbatieite ta sabbata, in Leviticus 23:32. Clearly Paul is upholding the observance of the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week.

And there you have it. Clearly, the Sabbath is still very much valid today, and to say that we no longer have to keep it holy, because Jesus is our Sabbath rest, is dangerous and foolish and is simply not biblical as the only definition of God's 4th commandment "SABBATH" is "THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK" *Exodus 20:10; Matthew 12:8.

Now that is enough for GREEK Word meaning as this does not determine complete definition without it's application to CHAPTER CONTEXT surrounding HEBREWS 4:9. So let's look at the surronding CONTEXT in HEBREWS 4:1-11

HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE (GENSIS 2:1-3) OF THE SEVENTH DAY ON THIS WISE, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD enter into that rest which God's WORD defines as the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is GOD'S REST! Let's continue...

6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

[10], For he that is entered into HIS REST (v9 God's SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

[11], LET US LABOR THEREFORE TO ENTER INTO THAT REST (God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (HEBREWS 3).

.............

CONCLUSION: HEBREWS 4 is talking about the Gospel rest of BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD; v29 Learn of me; v30 my burden (doing) is light. This agrees with Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. HEBREWS 4:1-11 is in reference to GOD'S REST which God's WORD defines is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is the CONTEXT shown in HEBREWS 4:1-5. HEBREWS 4 therefore with context added is saying that no one enter God's Sabbath rest if they do not BELIEVE AND FOLLOW God's WORD.

Hope this helps.

chad kincham said:

I have bible software - the word sabbath, SHABBATH is found 77 times in the OT, starting with Exodus.

Genesis does not contain the word sabbath, nor show Abraham resting on the 7th day sabbath, nor anyone else, and God commanded no one to rest on the seventh day in Genesis.

There was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.

Moses said no one had the law the law God gave to Israel, UNTIL God gave it to him on Mount Sinai:

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US even-us, who are all of us here alive THIS day.

And God says WHY and to WHO, He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:

Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and thatthe LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.

The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for it is a SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that ye May know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify YOU.

God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.

God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:

Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.

Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.

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Then you need new software LOL! It is right there in Genesis, plain as day in Hebrew. Did they end forever when the 1st Temple was destroyed? I guess someone forgot to give Yeshua the memo? Sacrifices cease when there is no Temple (you are mistaken regarding your quotes of lamentations regarding the commandments...it was the 1ST TEMPLE that was to be destroyed, not the 2nd...The Book of Lamentations is a reflection by the Prophet Jeremiah on the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 586 BC, with the subsequent Babylonian Exile). So you think Torah was made up at Sinai? Yes, that covenant happened at Sinai when the WRITTEN Torah was given. The 7th day was Holy long before Sinai and the 10 Commandments. Many before knew oral Torah when they walked with God...Adam, Abraham, Yonah, Noakh, etc...

Yeshua said that the Sabbath was made for man (He did not say Jews). It was created after man (Adam) was created. Man (Adam) was created on the 6th day and the Sabbath on the 7th day. God does not need rest...

"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws..." (TORAH)

"Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation, Noah walked with God...Noah did everything just as God commanded him."

"My feet have followed in His tracks, I have kept His way without turning aside. I have not departed from the command of His lips; I have treasured the words of His mouth more than my daily bread."

RickReads said:

It seems like the idea that sabbath predates the law would strengthen the case for sabbath observence.

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consider it strengthened then...

Sabbath was instituted at the time of man’s creation...Yah rested the day after creating Adam in His own Image...now you mean to say “His Image” is limited to merely what he looked like? or does it not include how he was to live...what He DID...Adam sees Him resting and does what? The opposite? Or live in His Image...his first full day a day of rest unearned...such grace eh? what a gift!...before sin even...a factory default setting by the Manufacturer...made for man NOT just Jews...but long before them...

Marriage too was instituted at this time...or do you mean to say marriage is also only for Jews?

If you deny that and tie sabbath exclusively to Moses then you have no case to continue in it.

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Israel was saved first...and then given the Law...

even manna was given first to Israel to count the days establishing the Sabbath and then the Law was given...

and Israel at Sinai receiving the living oracles from Him was already full of those NOT of Jacob...as specifically noted in the Sabbath commandment including the “strangers within thy gates”...the ONLY commandment to do so...the irony right?

ONE Law for Native and foreigner THE SAME...

As if He would divide His kingdom...or have TWO WIVES...those that do His will vs those that claim they didn’t need to

You might as well regard every day the same as I do.

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Not going in yourself...you now keep others from goin in?