ANY denom - Who can explain what happened to Jesus when . . .

[KEPLER]

what is it then?

Paradise is the "Promised Land", and the "Promised Land" is where ever Abraham is.

We know from Scripture that Jesus did not go to "heaven"... In Matt 12, Jesus says he will be in the "belly of the whale", which is NO description for heaven. In Eph 4, Paul tells us that Christ went to bring back "a host of captives"... I don't think heaven was holding anyone "captive"... And in 1 Peter 3, He is preaching to "sprits in prison "...again, not a heavenly sounding place.

There is one deutero-canonical book (4 Maccabees 13:17) which explicitly equates "paradise" with the place where Abraham is watching over the deceased, and this fits perfectly with the description in Luke 16. So, Jewish understanding at the time indicates that paradise is Abraham's Bosom.

By the time we get to Corinthians (where Paul says he sees "Paradise") (2 Cor 12:4), Christ has emptied Abraham's Bosom, and presumably Abraham has packed his things and is now in heaven, as he is described in Matt 8:11. In Matthew 8, Jesus is speaking about ultimate ends, not the temporary holding place of OT saints, so it's not contradictory to say that in Luke, Abraham is in sheol/hades, but in Matthew he is in heaven.

 

[oworm]

Paradise is the "Promised Land", and the "Promised Land" is where ever Abraham is.

We know from Scripture that Jesus did not go to "heaven"... In Matt 12, Jesus says he will be in the "belly of the whale", which is NO description for heaven. In Eph 4, Paul tells us that Christ went to bring back "a host of captives"... I don't think heaven was holding anyone "captive"... And in 1 Peter 3, He is preaching to "sprits in prison "...again, not a heavenly sounding place.

There is one deutero-canonical book (4 Maccabees 13:17) which explicitly equates "paradise" with the place where Abraham is watching over the deceased, and this fits perfectly with the description in Luke 16. So, Jewish understanding at the time indicates that paradise is Abraham's Bosom.

By the time we get to Corinthians (where Paul says he sees "Paradise") (2 Cor 12:4), Christ has emptied Abraham's Bosom, and presumably Abraham has packed his things and is now in heaven, as he is described in Matt 8:11. In Matthew 8, Jesus is speaking about ultimate ends, not the temporary holding place of OT saints, so it's not contradictory to say that in Luke, Abraham is in sheol/hades, but in Matthew he is in heaven.

Interesting

 

[Mikecpking]

LK 23:42-43 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. " Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.

It would seem that his body was put in the tomb and his soul went to paradise

Hi,
There is nothing in the bible to say that the soul survives physical death whether its Jesus, a believer or an unbeliever.. The soul in biblical terms actually means 'vital life', not the "inner person" according to greek philosophy. It was the spirit that returns to God at physical death (Ecclesiates 12:7)

 

[Mikecpking]

Yes but what about his soul? And why did he tell the thief he would be with him in paradise that very day?

His soul (nephesh in Hebrew) died with the body. Please see the previous post!

 

[oworm]

His soul (nephesh in Hebrew) died with the body. Please see the previous post!

Ok then what about his spirit then?

 

[Mikecpking]

Ecclesiates 12:7 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Jesus went to "paradise" Luke 23:43

Now... what is paradise? I can assure you, it is not heaven that we know of today, but it is Abraham's bosom.

Luke 16:22-23

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The greek word is Hades. Hades consists of two parts, notably, sheol and Abraham's bosom. Basically, sheol is the "Side of the Pit" which is, today, where people go to hell (not really hell that we know of yet... though there is gnashing of teeth.. etc... hell is the second death in revelation). Abraham's bosom is the paradise, which could kinda be synonymous with heaven, though the gates of heaven weren't open until Jesus' resurrection. So, Jesus went to Paradise (good part of hades) to get the people who were in there out, in order that they may go to heaven.

Abraham's bosom is now empty, and now that we have a direct relationship with God through Jesus Christ, we can go directly to heaven instead of going to Abraham's bosom.

To the glory of God,

Randy

P.S forgive me if this is confusing... i wish i could draw in here.. it'd be so much easier.

 

[KEPLER]

Abraham's bosom is now empty, and now that we have a direct relationship with God through Jesus Christ, we can go directly to heaven instead of going to Abraham's bosom.

Randy,

Excellent post; but if I may,I'd like to clarify one thing. We need to take into account Matt 8:5-13. In verse 11, where Jesus is most definitely speaking of heaven (in its final, eschatalogical sense), Jesus still describes people as feasting with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The feasting part is the clue, here.

When Jews (or any ancient near or middle easterner, for that matter) shared table fellowship, they didn't sit in chairs. (Chairs at a table, in fact, aren't common until the Middle Ages). They sat on cushions around a low table, pretty much on the floor, often for hours at a time! Frequently, they would lie on their sides, leaning on an elbow, sort of the way some of us watch a football game while ling on the floor in front of the TV. (Sitting on the ground for too long makes your back hurt!) This prone position is what Luke is talking about in 7:36, 11:37, 12:37, and 22:14, when he describes Jesus and others as having "reclined" at the table. (This is one of those places where the KJV ("sat down to eat") is so awful!)

One way that a host could show favor to one of the guests would be to let the favored guest recline his head on the host's chest. This is exactly what we see when in John 13, the disciple John is described thus: "Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved." (John 13:23, KJV...KJV gets it right in this verse!)

John is "in Jesus's bosom" in this verse. And this is what is meant by being in "Abraham's bosom": those who were "in Abraham's bosom" were considered as "honored guests". They ALL got to recline on Father Abraham's chest.

Therefore, since in Matthew, Jesus still refers to people in heaven as joining in a feast with Abraham, Issac and Jacob, there is going to be some reclining going on. However, I think at that point, we will all be reclining on Jesus's bosom, as only John has had the privelge of doing before.

 

[Jimmy West]

He died on the cross and was gone for three days? Does anyone know where He went? or what happened during those days before He rose on the 3rd day?

If you can, please give biblical references to support your statement. Thank you!

I can tell you what He was doing, where He wasm but I have no biblical reference.

 

[woman.at.the.well]

each and every person who answered this question and took part in the discussion. Feel free to continue. . . I'm finding this extremely interesting. I'm noticing that what happened to Jesus during those 3 days seems to vary from church to church.

 

[Harlan Norris]

He died on the cross and was gone for three days? Does anyone know where He went? or what happened during those days before He rose on the 3rd day?

If you can, please give biblical references to support your statement. Thank you!

I can't find anything definate.My pastor says that he went to Abraham's bosom,which was created for the rightous dead.Jesus gave an account of a man named Lazarus who died at the gate of a rich man.Who was later found to be in Abrahams bosom,by the rich man who was in hell.The rich man called out to Abraham to touch his lips with a drop if water,because he was tormented in the flame.Abraham pointed out that they were separated by a gulf,which neither could cross,to reach the other.So,Abrahams bosom was near enough to hell that hell could be seen from there.Appearantly this is where the faithful believers went before Christ.My pastor states that Jesus went to empty out this place,and to take those that were in it to heaven.The others stayed right where they were.The story of lazarus is in one of the gospels.I don't have my bible handy.Perhaps someone else knows where this parable is.

 

[Mikecpking]

Deleted, double post!

 

[Mikecpking]

Yes but what about his soul? And why did he tell the thief he would be with him in paradise that very day?

Like the previous poster had written, the soul (hebrew Nephesh) was in the grave.
We do read somewhere in Peter that Jesus preached to Noah's generation.

To be in paradise that day would mean to bring together the concept of "asleep in Christ" with the other concept "To be absent from the body and be with christ is better".
I think that means for those who are left, it would appear that believers who died would be "unconcious", but to the believer who died would somehow be brought straight to parousia and be resurected. That is the only way that these 2 seemingly contradictory truths can be brought together.

 

[sawdust]

The part in quotation above is somehwat disturbing. Several times now in CF I have seen statements like this, and I think they reek of a crypto-Nestorianism -- which is tosay, you are separating the divine and human natures of Christ... which is an absolute No-No!!!

That might be because you mistake the separation of function and nature. An example. I am a wife and a mother. They are my functions. My nature is human. What I do as a mother is one thing and what I do as a wife is another thing, yet at no time is my nature divided.

At present the humanity of Christ sits at the right hand of God while His Diety subdues His enemies. Those are His functions at this present time yet at no time is He separarted in nature.

peace

 

[mdvaden]

The first reply definitely had it. There are a lot of verses, but it does boil-down to being dead in gravedom.

Hell or "hades" is the biblical equivilent of "sheol" in the OT and Eccl. says there's no thoughts nor rememberance there. It's implied to be like falling asleep. Maybe that's why the euphamism.

I don't know if there is a verse saying he went to hades, but that's where dead happens to be in light of the whole biblical picture.

There's no verse saying he went to visit his father's "gray hairs" in the grave either, but that's where the figure of speech implies death is in the OT too.

That's an interesting thing to study regarding the man beside Jesus on the cross when the statement was made about being in paradise. If the comma is moved to one side of "today" or the other, it makes the difference between going to paradise that day, or sometime future.

Well, Jesus was not going to be in paradise that day.

It's sometimes easier to just scratch out the commas altogether since the original texts had none - then context and other verses can provide the needed understanding.

 

[KEPLER]

That might be because you mistake the separation of function and nature. An example. I am a wife and a mother. They are my functions. My nature is human. What I do as a mother is one thing and what I do as a wife is another thing, yet at no time is my nature divided.

At present the humanity of Christ sits at the right hand of God while His Diety subdues His enemies. Those are His functions at this present time yet at no time is He separarted in nature.

peace

This is not the Chalcedonian formulation. Christ has TWO natures, which are united in ONE person. We may not speak of what one nature does (i.e., the function of that nature) to the exclusion of the person.

Therefore it is absolutley forbidden to speak (in proper Christian terms) of his humanity doing one thing (sitting at the right hand of God) while his deity is doing another. This is separating the natures from the person.

To do so is blatant Nestorianism.

 

[woman.at.the.well]

These are some awesome answers and analogies :0) Thank you for coming by and adding your thoughts on this subject. It doesn't seem as though there really is a clear cut scripture on this issue. Guess we will all have to wait and ask The Good Lord Himself when we get to the otherside :0) or when Maranatha happens!

 

[sawdust]

This is not the Chalcedonian formulation. Christ has TWO natures, which are united in ONE person. We may not speak of what one nature does (i.e., the function of that nature) to the exclusion of the person.

Therefore it is absolutley forbidden to speak (in proper Christian terms) of his humanity doing one thing (sitting at the right hand of God) while his deity is doing another. This is separating the natures from the person.

To do so is blatant Nestorianism.

I fail to see how saying He functions in two or more things at once excludes His person. And if we are not allowed to speak of what one nature does while remaining silent on the other? Then why does the scripture do so? Is the Deity of Christ sitting down? Does God sit at all? Gee, I really hope you don't have this picture of God in your mind of a really big person with long white hair, sitting on an overlarge throne or something. That's for children's cartoons. No-one has seen God (except the Son because He is God and can see Himself) but we see Christ, the perfect expression of God. It is not His Deity we see but His humanity.

And you do realise all those old arguments regarding the faith were to act as impetus for the body's growth? We're not meant to cling to them as if they are the "be all and end all" but continue to grow in our understanding from them.

peace

 

[Soon Rev 22:11-12]

Q: Jesus, what happened between your death and resurrection?

A: (Jesus) "I ...was dead" Revelation 1:18.

Q: No, you were alive preaching in some nether world. Weren't you?

A: (Jesus) "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures" Matthew 22:29.

Q: C'mon. The theologians and preachers that I listen to don't believe you. Shouldn't I believe them, instead? Don't they interpret the other passages that people have previously used on this thread correctly?

A: (Jesus) It is written again, "I ...was dead" Revelation 1:18.

 

[Soon Rev 22:11-12]

"But we see Jesus, who ... might taste death for everyone." Hebrews 2:9.

Jesus was dead. Yes, Jesus. Not merely a piece of flesh was dead. The same Jesus that "came down from heaven" is the same Jesus that was dead.


"Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." Isaiah 53:12.

Jesus was dead, not for a second, not for a minute, not for an hour, not for a day, but for the duration between the crucifixion and the resurrection.