Antisocial Personality Disorders

[Tamh]

Something that has been of personal interest to me is how Scripture would address someone with an antisocial personality disorder. I recently had someone tell me quite bluntly that God predestines those who will be saved and those who won't be and those suffering from this is in the latter category.

No one seems to address this. Advice is always in the vein of "run away" which is not helpful. So I thought to ask here.

 

[dabro]

Ha, well that person that told you that is wrong.......God's predestination happened on the Cross. He predestined Christ before the beginning of time to come and be our Salvation.....Those who choose to accept Him will fall under that predestination......To say because you have been DX Anti-Social and therefor you have no right to go to heaven......Greater things you will get than that one that looked down on your faith.

 

[parsley]

We are all offered salvation and redemption -- "God is not willing that any should perish." But I can understand it is frustrating to have different experiences than others talk about-- especially if people demean you for something you did not ask for.

King Saul had antisocial bipolar tendencies, and God allowed him to be anointed as king over His chosen nation. Samson was lauded for his bravery, but he tied flaming torches to the tails of foxes.

We all have difficulties to bear that make us appear imperfect in His sight, and in the sight of others. But that is the beauty of the faith -- it is not about our abilities, but His ability to save.

 

[Tamh]

Ha, well that person that told you that is wrong.......God's predestination happened on the Cross. He predestined Christ before the beginning of time to come and be our Salvation.....Those who choose to accept Him will fall under that predestination......To say because you have been DX Anti-Social and therefor you have no right to go to heaven......Greater things you will get than that one that looked down on your faith.

It was a very sobering experience. Thank you both for your kind words.

 

[gideons300]

Something that has been of personal interest to me is how Scripture would address someone with an antisocial personality disorder. I recently had someone tell me quite bluntly that God predestines those who will be saved and those who won't be and those suffering from this is in the latter category.

No one seems to address this. Advice is always in the vein of "run away" which is not helpful. So I thought to ask here.

I would suspect if someone was living naked in a graveyard, terrorizing all who passed by that he might fall into that "anti-social" category you talk about, no?
Seems to me things turned out quite well for him, amen?

Ultimately, when we finally believe in the power we have been given, the very same power that brought Jesus uop from the dead, I believe that NO ONE is beyond the grasp of a loving savior. I know many will not come to Him, but mental illness is like any other. All is subject to the power of the most High God, when we finally ONLY believe.

Pre-destination and free will is a subject many think they have all figured out but it is like a monkey trying to comprehend a black hole. Some things are better left with the "thou knowest" answer. I am sure on that day, we will slap our foreheads and say "Well, duhhhh, of course!" but right now? Let's just live in the light and tell others that we serve a God that can set them free indeed.

I like what Jesus said to Peter when he was upset at the rumor that John would not see death until Jesus came back. He complained to Jesus and Jesus said:

"What has that got to do with you? YOU follow me."

You know a good way to KNOW you are pre-destined for Heaven? Tell God that even if you go to hell, you will do so saying that Jesus is the resurrection and the life, that you deserve hell and do not blame Him if you are sent there, but either way, you will still serve Him and bless His name. Case closed.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[1livelystone]

Any 'predestinated' doctrine that takes anything away from 'whosoever will may come' needs to be thrown in the trash can where it belongs.

Our predestinated calling is the order we are called in because as Jesus says no one comes to him unless first called by His Father.

What persons need to get right is when they are called to make sure they answer the call, and not take for granted so great a salvation.

 

[iambren]

Leaving the Predestination debate aside,I think it would be very difficult for a sociopath to come to Christ (Yes,God could do anything!). The bible speaks of those who are without natural affection,lover of themselves. The first clause could be hinting at homosexuality but the second surely lies at the sociopath's door. Satan is the father of lies and boy do these people lie. They can't truly love people or God and have no empathy for those they are constantly scheming to "get one up on". In Vegas I would put no chips in their way.

 

[Neogaia777]

Something that has been of personal interest to me is how Scripture would address someone with an antisocial personality disorder. I recently had someone tell me quite bluntly that God predestines those who will be saved and those who won't be and those suffering from this is in the latter category.

No one seems to address this. Advice is always in the vein of "run away" which is not helpful. So I thought to ask here.

I suffer from social anxiety/panic/paranoia disorders, PTSD, and Scitzophenia, (which means I hear voices sometimes), (me and my Psychologist call them "audio and visual hallucinations.) And it makes me hard to hold, (to be loved by someone) I don't like the idea or fact that someone else can just come on up to me and act and make small talk like they "know" me or something, It rubs me the wrong way, and makes me want to say to them "You don't "know" me, Hell, I don't even "know" me so how can you positively act or suppose that you "know" me, huh?

And I am a very "private man", I don't easily share deep, personal, intimate information about myself with others, yet they all try to pry, and this also, rubs me the wrong way, and I either want to get angry, or just get the heck out of there, and let the rest of them all openly "expose" (as though naked) themselves to one another, I want little to nothing to do with it.

I don't want to be (become) known, in fact this is one of my greatest fears. I want a simple life, one where, I will not be noticed by anyone, or anyone feeling and acting like they "know" me or make efforts to try and get to "know" me, Bottom line is "I don't trust them" (and what people do to each other with the information they share) when I start to fell like someone is prying for more personal intimate details that I don't wish to share, I just want to get the hell away from them, or want them to get the hell away from me. Like I said, I do not, as of yet, even know myself, how can anybody else possibly "get to know" me, Huh?

I can't handle the responsibility, nor the pressure of becoming "well known" by others, and possibly have them looking to me, for something (most of the time they know not what) Does this condemn me to hell?, well, I hope not, what do you think?

 

[Kayeliz]

I have social anxiety, but ultimately, that is an illness, so why would anyone go to hell for having acertain illness? Some people with Tourette's syndrome swear a lot and then say horrible things and can't help it. I'm sure God knows that.

 

[ryanmercer]

I recently had someone tell me quite bluntly that God predestines those who will be saved and those who won't be and those suffering from this is in the latter category.

Blasphemy. We have free agency. This actually sounds like something spoken from the mouth of the adversary "oh you don't like peple so you are going to hell so you might as well live it up and enjoy life!"

 

[iambren]

With respect to the OP I would suggest one would look up the definition of antisocial disorder or sociopath.

 

[dabro]

Also with due respect.....The DSM for it says no remorse or guilt....And this person is coming here for what exactly? Reassurance or a need to be felt by God since sociopath's feel like there unbreakable with a whole bunch of other hoop la. I know MI's exist I'm just saying we do not know the heart of this person. ONLY God Almighty does........And compassion was shown when the OP thanked me and parsley for our kind words.....Anything that can sober someone up and realize that God is in command is okay.

 

[FergusonTO35]

Interesting that I should stumble across such a thread as this.... I'm trying to spend more time fellowshipping with other Christians and studying the Word instead of goofing off with things that entertain me. I have been somewhat antisocial all of my life, at the age of 35 it now feels overwhelming. It just seems as I get older I just more and more withdrawn. I love The Lord and want to carry out his will for my life but I just seem to have less and less interest in people as I get older.

 

[ryanmercer]

Also with due respect.....The DSM for it says no remorse or guilt....And this person is coming here for what exactly? Reassurance or a need to be felt by God since sociopath's feel like there unbreakable with a whole bunch of other hoop la

Because they want to know? They never said they were and needed reassurance, they just asked if anyone knows how God handles such, I'd assume they mean are there any scriptural references for such to back up what someone they know told them.

I'd also suspect since they have that German flag English might not be their native language and could be cause for some confusion on either end.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Leaving the Predestination debate aside,I think it would be very difficult for a sociopath to come to Christ (Yes,God could do anything!). The bible speaks of those who are without natural affection,lover of themselves. The first clause could be hinting at homosexuality but the second surely lies at the sociopath's door. Satan is the father of lies and boy do these people lie. They can't truly love people or God and have no empathy for those they are constantly scheming to "get one up on". In Vegas I would put no chips in their way.

Do you know the definition of a sociopath vs. antisocial? Somehow walking out on a limb to the topic of homosexuality? Very, very different (and I'm watching my lil christian language here). I am disgusted.

I'm not even sure what this thread is about suggesting antisocial and predestination? I wish the OP would be more specific.

Sometimes on these threads, I think people are purposely overly general and use it to create controversy and to increase the judgement factor. I am hoping this whole thread was a mistake.

 

[ryanmercer]

Sometimes on these threads, I think people are purposely overly general and use it to create controversy and to increase the judgement factor. I am hoping this whole thread was a mistake.

In this case I think they are German and English might not be their first language. It's better to give people the benefit of the doubt anyway.

 

[least]

Something that has been of personal interest to me is how Scripture would address someone with an antisocial personality disorder. I recently had someone tell me quite bluntly that God predestines those who will be saved and those who won't be and those suffering from this is in the latter category.

No one seems to address this. Advice is always in the vein of "run away" which is not helpful. So I thought to ask here.

My dear brother, I hope these words will be an encouragement for you:

“But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, ‘Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.’” (1 Corinthians 1:27-31, ESV).

It is a fact of the fallen world that we live in that we are grieved in many ways. One may have a physical ailment and need a wheel chair. Another may be blind and need a guide. Still, others may suffer personality disorders, such as anxiety around others. Surely we will have troubles in this world, but listen to the Master, “Take heart; I have overcome the world” (John 16:33)!

Are you somehow weak and despised? It is for you He came; and he came to make you strong! Listen to the counsel of our friend Dabro, “God’s predestination happened on the Cross. He predestined Christ before the beginning of time to come and be our Salvation…..Those who choose to accept Him will fall under that predestination.” Or perhaps you would prefer the Word of God,

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has blessed us in the Beloved” (Ephesians 1:3-6).

This passage speaks of God’s predestined plan to save those who would believe; more specifically, the Church (Eph. 1:22:23). Why? Because of His wonderful love for us and because of his glory. So don’t be concerned about man’s judgment against you, “[For who is he] to pass judgment on the servant of another?” (Romans 14:4).

Have you placed your confidence in the work of Christ? If so, don’t worry over whether or not social disorders disqualify you from heaven; that would discount the work of the Lord. It is not your ability, but his power that saves you. So then, let us boast in the Lord our God!

 

[Willie T]

Quatsch!

 

[iambren]

Antisocial and psychopath are used interchangeably.
Traits of these people:


Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

 

[Kayeliz]

Okay, seriously, this is something we can't and shouldn't try to judge. We don't know how God deals with these people. And I would not want to say they go to hell and then discourage someone with an antisocial personality disorder who reads this. Plus, people with personality disorders are still very different. Some might be extreme and be serial killers or rapists, others might just be withdrawn or seem insensitive. It might also depend on whether they need medication and have access to it.

Generally, I don't think we can say that people with antisocial personality disorder go to hell. Some might, others might seem like they would, but God sees their heart. And I have to admit that what I really dislike among many Christians is the tendency to somehow see people with mental health problems as sinful, less Christian or unable to be proper Christians. People with mental health problems are ill, just like people with physical problems. I have anxiety and have been told I'm sinful because I'm not supposed to worry. Tough, that's the nature of my illness and for me it's a big thing to let one worry go for a bit.

I suspect that in this context, the sinners are rather those who discourage, frighten, exclude or discriminate against people with mental health problems.