Antiochus Epiphanes, archetype of persecution/oppression of God's people, End Times

[Tom Maccabeus]

Hi all,

Point number one: There is good consensus that Antiochus Epiphanes ( A.E.IV ) is the archetype of what we call commonly call the antichrist (the beast, the man of sin ) using the broad term.


Second point: There seems to be a good consensus that his actions will foreshadow events in the Last Days related to the Abomination of desolation, Rev 13 , 2 Thess. 2 , etc. We can go back to records that describe him, like the Books of the Maccabees. Although not scripture, they do contains a good record of history.

Many Christians are probably aware of his installing the idol of Zeus (made in his image) in the temple. Christians may not be aware that he also forced everyone to worship, on many altars set out throughout the land of Judea. He was out to defile and cause God's people to compromise into idolatry and fall away.

1 Maccabees 1:54“Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;”

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi all,

Point number one: There is good consensus that Antiochus Epiphanes ( A.E.IV ) is the archetype of what we call commonly call the antichrist (the beast, the man of sin ) using the broad term.


Second point: There seems to be a good consensus that his actions will foreshadow events in the Last Days related to the Abomination of desolation, Rev 13 , 2 Thess. 2 , etc. We can go back to records that describe him, like the Books of the Maccabees. Although not scripture, they do contains a good record of history.

Many Christians are probably aware of his installing the idol of Zeus (made in his image) in the temple. Christians may not be aware that he also forced everyone to worship, on many altars set out throughout the land of Judea. He was out to defile and cause God's people to compromise into idolatry and fall away.

1 Maccabees 1:54“Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;”

The abomination that leads to desolation was the rejection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the Messiah among His people. . This took place in 70AD with the destruction of the Temple and the end of Temple Judaism. They were left desolate, no God, because of their abomination. I don't know why this is just not plain and clear. Thanks for sharing.
Blessings.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Hi all,

Point number one: There is good consensus that Antiochus Epiphanes ( A.E.IV ) is the archetype of what we call commonly call the antichrist (the beast, the man of sin ) using the broad term.


Second point: There seems to be a good consensus that his actions will foreshadow events in the Last Days related to the Abomination of desolation, Rev 13 , 2 Thess. 2 , etc. We can go back to records that describe him, like the Books of the Maccabees. Although not scripture, they do contains a good record of history.

Many Christians are probably aware of his installing the idol of Zeus (made in his image) in the temple. Christians may not be aware that he also forced everyone to worship, on many altars set out throughout the land of Judea. He was out to defile and cause God's people to compromise into idolatry and fall away.

1 Maccabees 1:54“Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;”

I am really glad you brought this up, and I agree with your summation of it.IMHO Christians need to read the histories like Maccabees . Reading them has helped me understand better what was happening back then. Ecclesiastes warns us all here:Ecc.1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
And:
Ecc. 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

So, the only way to find out what AEIV was like and what he did is to read the histories because that story is not in scripture.

 

[Tom Maccabeus]

Hi ,
You make a good point, in that we wouldn't know what the term "abomination that causes desolation" meant 2,000 years later, if it weren't for the histories, which God gave us to be a warning for our good.

 

[Douggg]

Hi ,
You make a good point, in that we wouldn't know what the term "abomination that causes desolation" meant 2,000 years later, if it weren't for the histories, which God gave us to be a warning for our good.

That the placement of statue image of Zeus in the temple was said to be an abomination that makes desolate - prefigures what the end times AoD will be - the (statue) image of the beast person.

I think it will have to be placed in the temple courtyard (and not inside the temple sanctuary building) which everyone in Jerusalem will be able to see, without actually having to ascend the temple mount. Of course it will also televised and on the internet worldwide anyway, so them in Judea can flee at that time.

 

[Tom Maccabeus]

Hi Maria,

On what basis do you state that the abomination of desolation "was the rejection of Jesus Christ" , when the text shows that it is something that was/will be "set up", standing "?


Daniel 11:31
...And they will set up the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 12:11
...and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Matthew 24:15

...when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Are you guys aware of this ceremony? I cannot say I agree with everything the commentator says but he has an interesting analysis. What do you guys think?

 

[Tom Maccabeus]

The abomination that leads to desolation was the rejection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the Messiah among His people. . This took place in 70AD with the destruction of the Temple and the end of Temple Judaism. They were left desolate, no God, because of their abomination. I don't know why this is just not plain and clear. Thanks for sharing.
Blessings.

Hi Maria, With respect, it's not "plain and clear". Who in the early church set forth that view?
Please consider, Tom

 

[Tom Maccabeus]

PS. Also what scriptures back up that argument?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi Maria, With respect, it's not "plain and clear". Who in the early church set forth that view?
Please consider, Tom

Jeaus Christ of Nazareth. Luke 21
Blessings

 

[Maria Billingsley]

PS. Also what scriptures back up that argument?

Luke 21
Matthew 24
Mark 13

 

[DavidPT]

The abomination that leads to desolation was the rejection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the Messiah among His people. . This took place in 70AD with the destruction of the Temple and the end of Temple Judaism. They were left desolate, no God, because of their abomination. I don't know why this is just not plain and clear. Thanks for sharing.
Blessings.

Assuming that was the case, note what the text says, though.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


The text says---When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place---one is to at that time, not before that time nor after that time, but at that particular time-- Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

How does the rejection of Jesus which was ongoing for 40 years straight, thus not something that only happened on some particular day some 40 years later equal what you conclude? Why weren't they doing what is recorded in verses 16-18 on an ongoing basis? And who is it that is supposed to flee into the mountains when they see the AOD stand in the holy place? Unbelieving Jews in the first century? Unbelieving Jews that flat out rejected Jesus? As if it makes sense, that though these unbelieving Jews rejected Jesus, they believed what He said in verses 15-18, therefore, they heeded His words at the time and did exactly what verses 16-18 said to do the moment one sees the AOD stand in the holy place.

You then ask, I don't know why this is just not plain and clear. In order for it to be plain and clear, the first thing that has to happen, one has to correctly identify who it is that Jesus said needs to flee into the mountains at the time, since it couldn't be meaning unbelieving Jews that rejected Him. And why they need to flee, as if lava from a distant volcano was heading in their direction, no time to pack, just get out now because moments later could be too late.

Applying Matthew 24:15-18 to the first century and 70 AD makes zero sense, IMO. The 2nd temple is still not the holy place some 40 years later. It is no longer the holy place, period, once Christ died and rose. Applying it to the end of this age does make sense if not applying it in a literal sense. It just means that Jesus is using imagery involving getting out with no time to spare, to make the point, that if one doesn't once they see(perceive) the AOD stand in the holy place, that this could lead to them falling away instead since this is one thing this AOD sets out to accomplish, cause many to fall away(2 Thessalanians 2:3-4)

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Assuming that was the case, note what the text says, though.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


The text says---When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place---one is to at that time, not before that time nor after that time, but at that particular time-- Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

How does the rejection of Jesus which was ongoing for 40 years straight, thus not something that only happened on some particular day some 40 years later equal what you conclude? Why weren't they doing what is recorded in verses 16-18 on an ongoing basis? And who is it that is supposed to flee into the mountains when they see the AOD stand in the holy place? Unbelieving Jews in the first century? Unbelieving Jews that flat out rejected Jesus? As if it makes sense, that though these unbelieving Jews rejected Jesus, they believed what He said in verses 15-18, therefore, they heeded His words at the time and did exactly what verses 16-18 said to do the moment one sees the AOD stand in the holy place.

You then ask, I don't know why this is just not plain and clear. In order for it to be plain and clear, the first thing that has to happen, one has to correctly identify who it is that Jesus said needs to flee into the mountains at the time, since it couldn't be meaning unbelieving Jews that rejected Him. And why they need to flee, as if lava from a distant volcano was heading in their direction, no time to pack, just get out now because moments later could be too late.

Applying Matthew 24:15-18 to the first century and 70 AD makes zero sense, IMO. The 2nd temple is still not the holy place some 40 years later. It is no longer the holy place, period, once Christ died and rose. Applying it to the end of this age does make sense if not applying it in a literal sense. It just means that Jesus is using imagery involving getting out with no time to spare, to make the point, that if one doesn't once they see(perceive) the AOD stand in the holy place, that this could lead to them falling away instead since this is one thing this AOD sets out to accomplish, cause many to fall away(2 Thessalanians 2:3-4)

We have a different lens. I am a partial Preterist and view 70AD fulfilling Matthew 24.
Blessings

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

We have a different lens. I am a partial Preterist and view 70AD fulfilling Matthew 24.
Blessings

IMHO you should change lenses.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Are you guys aware of this ceremony? I cannot say I agree with everything the commentator says but he has an interesting analysis. What do you guys think?

What I think is we need to stop watching YouTube garbage and find truth and understanding in Scripture. And that applies to the hail videos, too.

 

[Tom Maccabeus]

Hi all,
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