Answering the Problem of Evil

[TheIntellectualPunk]

I think I could go back to Christianity if someone could explain the problem of evil.

I don't understand why there is suffering or moral evil with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God.

 

[Chesterton]

Hey fellow punk!

God granted us the dignity and honor of having free will, so we have the option of doing wrong, of treating each other badly if we choose. And all of creation groans along with that.

 

[aiki]

I think I could go back to Christianity if someone could explain the problem of evil.

Does the worldview you're now holding explain it?

I don't understand why there is suffering or moral evil with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God.

1.) God isn't omnibenevolent. He hates sin.
2.) Much of the evil in the world is the consequence of human free will.

Selah.

 

[bling]

This is a huge topic I could write a book on it.

What you and every mature adult has asked and is wanting: “Why would a Loving God not put us all in a Garden of Eden type situation with everything we would ever want and live forever?”

God addresses that question very early on with third chapter in the bible, since God knows you and everyone else would ask.

What God gives us is a hypothetical (or real) situation, where the best possible man and woman are placed in such a paradise situation. These two have the best bodies you can imagine (with the help of one tree’s fruit could last forever), they have the best brains you could have (no bad mutations) and they have been raised to adulthood by the best parent (God has programmed them with all the knowledge they could have and possible could need) and there was only one little thing given for them to do wrong.

As Good as this Adam and Eve were, they were not “perfect” like God and Christ are since they were created beings. The one thing they lacked was Godly type Love which cannot be programmed into them (instinctive) since that love would be like a robotic love and God cannot just force them to take this Love since that would be like a shoot gun wedding with God holding the shoot gun. Godly type Love is need to correctly obey, so they need it. This Godly type Love is huge since it compels God to do everything He does do it is the most powerful force in all universe. This Love is what compelled God to make humans in the first place, for the sake of those humans that would obtain this Love and thus become like God Himself (God is Love). God is extending Godly type Love to them, but there is a problem, since Adam and Eve have done no wrong they would receive God’s Love as good children accepting the love of a wonderful parent and not accept it as Godly type Love. The problem is to accept Godly type Love you are really accepting a unconditional, undeserving, free gift (Charity). Humans do not like to accept Charity since that requires humility (we have needed egos to protect) and for Adam and Eve there is no reason for them to be humble they have done everything right.

Bottom line is we (and Adam and Eve) can see from the story that a Garden of Eden type situation is a louse place for humans to fulfill their earthly objective.

God has shown He would like us to be in a Garden type situation and will provide heaven as an even better place, but God quenches His desire to provide an earth to help those that will accept God’s help since they need to have: lots of hardship, tragedies, sin, hell and Christ going to the cross to provide the best place for man to accept God’s Love humbly.

That is a brief answer.

 

[talitha]

Another point is that - while God loves us immeasurably - humans and our pain are not the chief focus. There is a higher reason for our existence; we're not just pets. We are here to overcome the evil one. God wants to use us - in our weakness - to shame the devil and to conquer this planet in his name. Some have lost sight of that. Some of us have small roles in this war. But there is a greater story here that we need to open our eyes to if we are to understand our purpose. We do not follow God because he heals us and makes us better people - although that is good, of course. We follow God because He is God.

 

[oi_antz]

I think I could go back to Christianity if someone could explain the problem of evil.

I don't understand why there is suffering or moral evil with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God.

It does seem to be about the right to make decisions, and to learn from the impact that those decisions have. How do you propose that God should do things differently?

 

[TheIntellectualPunk]

So basically the dignity of free will is the cause of evil? Interesting answer.
So in the state of glorification when you are unable to sin, will you still have that dignity?
If so, then how is it that you have free will then and are unable to sin, but Adam and Eve couldn't have been made with free will and the inability to sin?


"It does seem to be about the right to make decisions, and to learn from the impact that those decisions have. How do you propose that God should do things differently?"

I won't bother answering this since it is obviously incompatible with an omniscient God that the Bible suggests. Open theism is nonsense if Christianity is true.

 

[aiki]

So in the state of glorification when you are unable to sin, will you still have that dignity?

As far as I know, yes. But, I don't know that when one is in their glorified body that they are totally unable to sin. Maybe this is so but only after the born-again child of God has faced the test and temptation of sin here and chosen to walk with God rather than yield to it.

If so, then how is it that you have free will then and are unable to sin, but Adam and Eve couldn't have been made with free will and the inability to sin?

Well, as I pointed out, if our state of glorification is one where we are utterly unable to choose to sin it will only be so after we have faced the choice to walk with God or live in darkness and have chosen God rather than a life of sin. Our glorified state where we are free from sin is one in which our decision to follow after God is confirmed, and established, and made fully complete. You see, then, that our glorified state is not attained without the exercise of our free will. In light of this, your question about Adam and Eve seems moot.

Selah.

 

[oi_antz]

"It does seem to be about the right to make decisions, and to learn from the impact that those decisions have. How do you propose that God should do things differently?"

I won't bother answering this since it is obviously incompatible with an omniscient God that the Bible suggests. Open theism is nonsense if Christianity is true.

How so? I am attempting to identify your thoughts, to see whether what you think is actually realistic. I will attempt to rephrase my question. Put aside your attempt to disprove the omniscience of God for a moment, that's just a distraction. Let me break the question down, and see if we can't identify where I went wrong:

• You propose that God should prevent all bad things.
• You wonder why bad things happen if God does not like bad things.

My question is "How do you think God should do things differently, in order to achieve this?"

 

[bling]

So basically the dignity of free will is the cause of evil? Interesting answer.
So in the state of glorification when you are unable to sin, will you still have that dignity?
If so, then how is it that you have free will then and are unable to sin, but Adam and Eve couldn't have been made with free will and the inability to sin?

I addressed this in my post:

As Good as this Adam and Eve were, they were not “perfect” like God and Christ are since they were created beings. The one thing they lacked was Godly type Love which cannot be programmed into them (instinctive) since that love would be like a robotic love and God cannot just force them to take this Love since that would be like a shoot gun wedding with God holding the shoot gun. Godly type Love is need to correctly obey, so they need it. This Godly type Love is huge since it compels God to do everything He does do it is the most powerful force in all universe. This Love is what compelled God to make humans in the first place, for the sake of those humans that would obtain this Love and thus become like God Himself (God is Love). God is extending Godly type Love to them, but there is a problem, since Adam and Eve have done no wrong they would receive God’s Love as good children accepting the love of a wonderful parent and not accept it as Godly type Love. The problem is to accept Godly type Love you are really accepting a unconditional, undeserving, free gift (Charity). Humans do not like to accept Charity since that requires humility (we have needed egos to protect) and for Adam and Eve there is no reason for them to be humble they have done everything right.


Bottom line is we (and Adam and Eve) can see from the story that a Garden of Eden type situation is a louse place for humans to fulfill their earthly objective.


God has shown He would like us to be in a Garden type situation and will provide heaven as an even better place, but God quenches His desire to provide an earth to help those that will accept God’s help since they need to have: lots of hardship, tragedies, sin, hell and Christ going to the cross to provide the best place for man to accept God’s Love humbly.

 

[~Anastasia~]

So basically the dignity of free will is the cause of evil? Interesting answer.
So in the state of glorification when you are unable to sin, will you still have that dignity?
If so, then how is it that you have free will then and are unable to sin, but Adam and Eve couldn't have been made with free will and the inability to sin?

The Bible does not address this directly, so I am speculating. But Eve (and Adam because of her) sinned by eating of the fruit because they were tempted (tricked) into it by Satan, resulting in the fallen state of creation.

If Satan had not been there, would they ever have fallen?

Once all things are restored, Satan will be forever bound and no longer there to tempt them.

Think of it maybe like this. The world is full of all kinds of infectious agents. You walk around and breathe them in, you get them through a cut in the skin. You end up with the flu, skin infections, and so on. But if you can create a "clean room" with ZERO infectious agents, and none are EVER allowed in, how then could living tissue in the room become infected?

Maybe it's like that. The Bible says there will never again enter in anything that is evil. So perhaps with no temptation to do evil, the free will will never succumb.

Maybe. As I said, just speculating here, but it seems reasonable.

 

[dhh712]

Another point is that - while God loves us immeasurably - humans and our pain are not the chief focus. There is a higher reason for our existence; we're not just pets. We are here to overcome the evil one. God wants to use us - in our weakness - to shame the devil and to conquer this planet in his name. Some have lost sight of that. Some of us have small roles in this war. But there is a greater story here that we need to open our eyes to if we are to understand our purpose. We do not follow God because he heals us and makes us better people - although that is good, of course. We follow God because He is God.

This seems to me to be quite a good, basic answer to the original question. When people ask "Why is there evil in the world?" they are focusing the question on themselves and/or humanity instead of God. We aren't the center of our existence here. God is. When we take the focus from "what will God do for us" to "What will we do for God?", the answer to "Why is there evil" is much easier to understand.

Unfortunately, with our egos, it is near impossible to do this without His help, and still is difficult to get the focus off ourselves even with His help.

 

[Soul2Soul]

I think I could go back to Christianity if someone could explain the problem of evil.

I don't understand why there is suffering or moral evil with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God.

The problem of evil is challenging for so many to get to grips with and especially so when there appears to be no standard answer to this issue. I guess it's what each one accepts as the most "convincing" answer/definition/explanation?

As someone who has had difficulty with the issue of evil, I am more satisfied now with accepting evil as being the (harshest/most malicious, etc) reaction/consequence to the absence of goodness/godliness ..... whether a thought or worse, an action.

I'm sure that we humans would admit that through our free will - the good and bad decisions/choices that we make - we cannot call into question God's omnibenevolence nor His omnipotence. If we ever needed to follow/imitate the example of a human whose life was blameless and who overcame evil, well, I know of only one such person ..... by way of ..... Christianity.

 

[chilehed]

I think I could go back to Christianity if someone could explain the problem of evil.

I don't understand why there is suffering or moral evil with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God.

You might want to listen to Peter Kreeft's lectures on free will and the problem of evil.