Answer This!

[appointed]

I hope most of you know the biblical story of Job. Job was a very rich man, he had a good family, loved God, and had the world at his fingertips. However, one day, satan was talking to God, and God told satan that he would let him screw with Job, just play with his mind a little. So satan takes away everything that Job loved. Job was left with nothing, his wealth was stolen, his servants were killed, every last one of his children were killed, and Job himself was diseased. In the end, God replaces all of Job's wealth because Job never cursed God.

However, I want to talk about this just for a second. God was testing Job to see if he could take it, and He wanted to show satan that he is still very much in control. This makes a little sense, but not really. Here is an example, What if there was a all knowing head scientist leading a project and he let some stupid moron come in and play with his experiment. Let's say that the emperiment has to do with rats. The head scientist says, sure you can poison my rats, you can take away their food, and kill their family, just don't kill them. This is the way that I feel when I read Job, like some play thing. The head scientist has complete power, yet he doesn't stop the bad.

Yet another point is that material things are not that important, and this part of the story doesn't bother me. However, the death of Job's children makes me sick. What did they do? Was it their purpose just to die in some experiment? Were they just play things? Some of them must have known God. But yet he didn't even speak about letting satan kill every last one of them. Then it angers me that God just replaced the children at the end of the story, like the second batch was better.

I am not trying to get anyone to second guess their beliefs. Still seek after God, and have a relationship with him, because He loves you. But I am severely depressed. Would God just let me die? Would he not even weep over my demise? I know that I am no better than Job's kids. Is it my purpose in life to just worry, fear, cry out, have trouble sleeping, sin, lust, curse, hope, dream, fall short, die? To tell you all the true, I wish I would have died at birth, just like Job wished.

 

[BOJAX]

Remember that the body of the children is just their body. Their flesh. How do you know that their spirits went on to the new children that God gave them? Just a thought. Remember our bodies or our flesh is to be crucified. Our Spirit is what counts. Why don't you share what is REALLY bothering you?

 

[curnon]

Dear appointed, [though in your post you sound dis-appointed!]

It is a great thing to read the Lord's word and take it seriously into their hearts. I wish I ran across more people who did.

The first thing I would remark is that the story of Job is not meant to be an eyewitness news account, it is the kind of allegorical story that has a moral or a specific teaching to it, and that is, "how should we as humans deal with suffering"? Job provides a template for all of us to *love the Lord in all things.* In our happy, prosperous times and in our times of devastation and sadness. A modern example is in attitudes of survivors of Hurricanes Katrina, et al.: people were quoted as saying, "We lost everything but we thank God that we still have our lives."

The characters of Job's children and servants could have been anybody--Look around. Children die--sometimes all the children in a family will die--sometimes we lose all we have--sometimes we suffer from illness. In this sense, Job's children and others from the story show us that material prosperity does not equal salvation. Death comes to the rich and the poor, young and old alike.

But the book of Job does not stop there. It could have, and would have made a complete story, but then we have the parts when Job's friends do their best (like I am now) to interpret God's plan and help Job see that there is a bigger picture. They get it wrong much of the time (like, "Well, Job, you suddenly lost everything. Guess that means you did something wrong, buddy. Go on, fess up.") but they do symbolize human compassion and the positive human quality of trying to sort things out and put them into balance, like mathmeticians. Probably the most poignant part of their relationship with Job comes when they do the mourning ritual of putting dirt on their hair, ripping their garments, and sitting beside him in silence for a time. This is human friendship, ordained by God. [If I ever invented a religion, friendship would be a sacrament.] But anyway, Job's friends paint for him a still incomplete picture of God's ultimate plan.

**This is why the book of Job dissatisfies many readers and they walk away empty-hearted, like Job's friends did--WE also are unable to grasp more than an incomplete picture of God's ultimate plan, so the whole God/Devil conversation was superimposed over the account of Job as a way of saying 'This doesn't make sense but believe it anyway.' God and Satan are strangely full of human flaws (pride, one-up-manship) and carry on like a couple of guys sitting at a bar, drinking beer, watching a football game. "Watch my quarterback here. He won't fail me..." We have a hard time imagining God in such petty conversations with Satan. So if you are uncomfortable with that image, count yourself among the majority no matter your religion!**

What are the take-aways from Job, then?
1. Wealth/prosperity/suffering/poverty/loneliness/comfort/health/illness--where do these states come from? Do we earn them? NO Do we deserve them? NO Do we ultimately control them? NO: *All that we have is from the Lord.*
2. What sustains us through our deepest sufferings? (Notice how the worst advice comes from Job's own wife, who in her frustration urges Job to "Curse God and die.") Though it often is for us, for many it is not our own family or our friends who keep us going. Devotion to God literally kept Job alive, even when he was angry with God and expressed his anger (yes, there are angry prayers!), he was devoted to God: God is our refuge and our strength, He is all we need. *Turn to God when you are suffering.*
3. There are parallels with the life of Job and of Jesus: Job foreshadows Christ's suffering and sets the stage for the resurrection and second coming. Rejoice, there is hope!

To address your final comments,

I am severely depressed. Would God just let me die? Would he not even weep over my demise? I know that I am no better than Job's kids. Is it my purpose in life to just worry, fear, cry out, have trouble sleeping, sin, lust, curse, hope, dream, fall short, die? To tell you all the true, I wish I would have died at birth, just like Job wished.

--Would God just let you die? Yes, physically, he lets all of us die--he even let his own Son die. But He will also give you eternal life and you shall never perish.
--Would he not even weep over your demise? I don't know. Knowing the above, though, makes be believe that there is no reason for anyone to weep if you are with Him forever.
--Our purpose in life is not those things you list, but they certainly come with the territory of being human. Jesus very clearly told us what our purpose in life is: "love the Lord your God with all your might (some have said "mind"), with all your heart, with all your soul, and to love one another."

One word of advice: don't read Job when you're depressed. Before or just after is OK, but if you are depressed read something from the new testament!

I am glad you did not die at birth, I will keep you in my prayers for hope.

Peace and healing be upon you,
curnon

 

[goldenviolet]

appointed, dear child of God. Job was special. God knew that Job would be ok. the bible says:

No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. 1 Corinthians 10:13

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. James 1:13

For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted. Hebrews 2:18

i thought it important you know this. God wants His children to live blessed in love, peace, and joy. will you allow us to minister to you, so you don't feel abandoned, and depressed?

will you tell us some of your burdens?

 

[IKTCA]

To tell you all the true, I wish I would have died at birth, just like Job wished.

We always gain by associating ourselves to the great men in the Bible. And I am most glad to hear that you take Job's confession to your heart. And I am certain that you will also receive Job's comfort.

If you would like to talk about Job, I am available.

Rupert

 

[iBystander]

Your reaction to the book of Job is no different than mine many years ago when I first read it. You are correct in your analogy provided God was a man, but of course He is not. At first glance, Job's life was trivialized for not much more than amusement, for the purpose of one proving to another one. But the event runs much, much deeper.

God didn't take away everything Job loved. That was Satan's perception. Job was stripped of everything he loved except God. As for the lives lost, you're placing a premium upon life itself, while the actual value of a life is nil beyond what is accomplished through it in serving God. Compared to eternity, this life is just the flash of a spark. Paul wrote how he desired to leave this life because it meant his presence with his Lord. We have no knowledge of the state of the souls that were taken because it wasn't pertinent to the story. I feel confident that Job had imparted his love of God to his children. I also feel confident that God was aware of their fates before they were born and gave to each as they required, of faith, grace and time.

But your question is essentially, why? Why turn a poor, frail human's life upside down, tear everything and everyone away from him and then afflict him further with disease and friends who stigmatize him for his maladies? What could possibly be gained? Simply proving Satan wrong? All the angels in heaven already knew that.

The reason is you. It was done for you and countless millions of others who have read along with the account of this poor man who was rich in faith. His riches weren't restored to him as a reward but as a sign to those around him who had wrongly judged his plight. No, his reward is increased every day when a new believer reads and is enriched by this account of his brief life.

I think your reaction and mine when initially reading the account has it's importance as well. If the story is offensive to our sensibilities and we try and resolve this with the personality of God, we finally have an epiphany that God is God and not man. At that point we can recieve the message of the story. Believers suffer and while we may not understand the reasons behind it, God does. We are to place our faith in Christ and persevere because all things work towards His goal, even though it may never be apparent to us in this life.

And why would God weep over your death when you're finally in his arms?

-Cf

_

 

[UnitynLove]

How To Enjoy Everyday Life



All of us have large portions of our time that need to be devoted to what we will call "common life and everyday business." I'm sure you know what I mean, things like, laundry, grocery store trips, auto repairs, dentist's visits, sweeping the floor, washing the dishes, going to work, etc. We tend to see these chores as being quite different from and even far below our "Spiritual Life," or the things we do which we consider to be holy. Most of us who really love and are devoted to God prefer the holy times to the common. Holy times are like praying, spiritual reading and meditation, sharing conversation about the Lord with friends, going to church, or other spiritual meetings. Seeing the two sides of our life as being in two entirely different categories usually causes quite a problem within the believer.

Often we feel divided within ourselves struggling to get finished with "common life and everyday business" so we can return to holy things, because we feel that we are holier or more right with God when we are doing what we believe to be holy things.

I believe this is one of the greatest deceptions of Satan. It keeps most people in a state of turmoil; dreading, and even despising the tasks of common life and everyday business. All of us must do them; it is part of life. They cannot be avoided. So we must have understanding on how in reality (truth) there is no difference between common and holy, except in our own minds. And if we will read the Bible properly and not be so religious in our thinking, we will move into an area of freedom that will shake the gates of hell. SATAN DOES NOT WANT YOU TO ENJOY YOUR LIFE. Naturally, if he can keep you thinking that God is only pleased with you when you are engaged in some sort of a so called "spiritual activity"; He can keep you unhappy a large part of the time. This misconception is one of his greatest tools to keep people from enjoying life. Often this comes as a vague feeling that makes a believer miserable, and he doesn't even understand what is wrong with him. All he knows is that something is amiss.

Everything we do is to be offered to the Lord; and if done so with a pure heart of love, it becomes holy. You can do common tasks, like go to the grocery store, and it will be just as holy as prayer, as long as you do all to the glory and honor of God. In the realm of importance, prayer is certainly more important than a trip to the grocery store, but not any holier. What I mean by prayer being more important is that it has eternal value, whereas a trip to the store or mopping the floor doesn't.

Romans 14 is an excellent chapter in the Bible to bring liberty in this area. Verses 5 & 6 (paraphrased) says: One man esteems one day as better than another (holier), while another man esteems all days alike (holy). Let everyone be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, does it in honor of the Lord. He also who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Let's rewrite Romans 14:5-6 for a minute (Joyce's translation): One man sees prayer and Bible study as better (holier) than ordinary tasks. While a person that is really free in the Lord sees them all alike (all holy), because whatever he does, he does it in honor of the Lord.

This is true liberty—to be able to live an undivided life where we categorize some things as common and some as holy. Thereby as a result, we never enjoy the common because we are desperately trying to either avoid them completely or at least to rush through them so we can get to those things that are holy.

I just learned this lesson while traveling on an airplane to a speaking engagement. I was pondering on the thought of how glad I would be when I get to my destination, so I could pray and study. I was feeling very restless. The Lord began to minister to me that I needed to thoroughly enjoy the airplane ride and that it was just as holy to Him if I would offer it to Him. He is Holy, and He lives in you so that makes you holy. Therefore, wherever you go and whatever you do becomes holy. Now I realize, we are growing in manifesting holiness, but I'm sharing that it is His presence that makes things holy.

Another thing that had quite an effect on me in this area was a plaque I saw in a pastor's office. It said, "My work is worship." As long as I remember that, I find myself enjoying everything common life and everyday business as well as prayer, Bible study, and other things we define as spiritual. Join me in this liberated lifestyle and begin to enjoy everyday life.