Another why question ...

[simplegifts]

I just don't get it. Why the Nation of Islam? Why do African-Americans consider Islam their religion and not Christianity?

http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/un...referrer=https://www.google.com/#.V5n2n7grLtQ

http://www.frontline.org.za/index.p...:the-scourge-of-slavery-the-rest-of-the-story

 

[smaneck]

I just don't get it. Why the Nation of Islam? Why do African-Americans consider Islam their religion and not Christianity?

Hey, you actually asked a question!

Oh, no you then you put up a video which claims to know the answer. You came soo close, that time.

But let me say something about his ranting regarding Muhammad skin color. Muhammad may well have had lighter skin than the average Arab but if his armpits are described as white, obvously the rest of him must have been well-tanned. The nastiness in that video are clear violations of the rules of this forum which prohibit degrading and mocking the religion of others. Slavery was never a matter of race of in Arabia. There were white slaves and black slaves.

The Nation of Islam has the same relationship to the religion of Islam as the LDS has to Christianity. In other words, the relationship is rather precarious. Most African-Americans do consider Christianity their religion but there are some who consider the fact that Christianity helped oppress them in the first place, want nothing to do with it. Also, in many cases their ancestors were Muslims. Yes, the Islamic world had slaves too but they were quickly assimilated into the general society. We don't see the same kind of African diaspora in the Islamic world that we do in the Americas. Rarely was slavery passed down from one generation to the next, and it was Christians not Muslims who bought or captured slaves in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.

 

[simplegifts]

Hey I thought a person couldn't start a thread if it wasn't a question! The man in the video uses the very teachings of Islam.

http://www.frontline.org.za/index.p...:the-scourge-of-slavery-the-rest-of-the-story.

Not originally, Islam didn't show up until a much later date.

 

[smaneck]

Hey I thought a person couldn't start a thread if it wasn't a question! The man in the video uses the very teachings of Islam.

Sure. The problem is you are mislabeling your attacks as question. And attacking other people's religion is prohibited in this forum. You have to go to the debate section for that.

And by the way, not all slaves in Israel were criminals and debtors. Most were prisoners of war. And the Bible clearly allowed women captured in this way to be used sexually.

 

[simplegifts]

Sure. The problem is you are mislabeling your attacks as question. And attacking other people's religion is prohibited in this forum. You have to go to the debate section for that.

And by the way, not all slaves in Israel were criminals and debtors. Most were prisoners of war. And the Bible clearly allowed women captured in this way to be used sexually.

Of course but with some rules of consideration applied. Not so with Islam women were allowed to be raped.

Female Israeli prisoner of war.
Deuteronomy 21
10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

 

[smaneck]

Of course but with some rules of consideration applied. Not so with Islam women were allowed to be raped.

Female Israeli prisoner of war.
Deuteronomy 21
10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

Sorry, but the fact that these women were allowed to mourn their dead for thirty days before being raped doesn't mean they weren't raped.

 

[simplegifts]

Sorry, but the fact that these women were allowed to mourn their dead for thirty days before being raped doesn't mean they weren't raped.

You missed the point completely - hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;

 

[smaneck]

You missed the point completely - hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;

If the woman has been forced into a marriage it is still rape.

 

[Arthra]

Checked out David Wood... He's crass and unapologetic... Forgot to mention that Muhammad freed his slave Zayd ibn Harithah.

As to the appearance of the Prophet quoting Anas ibn Malik:

The Prophet was neither very tall such that he stood above the crowd, nor was he short such that he would be ignored. He was of a medium stature. And the Prophet was neither extremely white and nor was he a reddish brown.

http://lifeofprophet.com/about-prophet-muhammad/his-physical-appearance/

 

[smaneck]

Checked out David Wood... He's crass and unapologetic... Forgot to mention that Muhammad freed his slave Zayd ibn Harithah.

Zayd was even adopted.
As for David Wood, he seems quite determined to deprive Muslims of their civil rights. He fought against their building of the Park51 mosque. He likes to show up at the Dearborn Arab Fest and harass Muslims there being as offensive as possible while filming it all. The guy is thoroughly obnoxious. Even the Arab Christians in Dearborn denounce his activities.

 

[simplegifts]

If the woman has been forced into a marriage it is still rape.

Truthfully back in that day many would consider every marriage a rape since women had little to no say in the matter. But to be a wife means the husband is responsible for her welfare.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/femalecaptives.htm scroll down to APPENDIX 1: A MUSLIM’S ATTEMPT TO JUSTIFY THE RAPE BASED UPON DEUTERONOMY
Compare that to “When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.” (Umdat al-Salik O9.13)

004.024 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

Compare that to the rape here Deuteronomy 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

Abu Dawud (2150) - "The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Quran 4:24) 'And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.

 

[smaneck]

Truthfully back in that day many would consider every marriage a rape since women had little to no say in the matter. But to be a wife means the husband is responsible for her welfare.

And a master in Islam is responsible for the welfare of a slave. So why don't you stop trying to judge Muhammad by modern standards?

As for Answering Islam, that is a hate blog and I don't read hate blogs.

Abu Dawud (2150) - "The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Quran 4:24) 'And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.

Almost certainly not the case, as the context for Sura 4 is wives in general, not war captives.