Another thing I don't understand about the creationist position...

[Astrid]

We have rules for Bible interpretation that we learn in Bible School. Ultimately the Holy Spirit of God is our teacher and our Guide. We do not need men to tell us what they think the Bible says.

2Peter3:16
He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

The rules are laid out in the Bible?
Everyone agrees to them?

How many different Bible schools
are there, how many different rules
leading to how many different sects
each with different interpretations?
There's about 40,000 organized sects.
Uncountable individuals with their own
inspired readings.

But never mind that, it is all
black and white obvious.


What intrigues me is the bit about
God helping. ( plain unambiguous text
in the Bible in the first place would have
been terrif., and saved a lot of trouble.)

Anyway- everyone says God showed them
the true meaning but there's no consistent
pattern. Someone is lying.


Finally- if you yourself get God's help,
then can we rely on you to tell us the
100% perfect meaning of selected passages?

 

[Astrid]

I don’t need to prove God’s existence because you know God exists, because He’s given plenty of evidence. That you’ve chosen to ignore the evidence and assign it to some other authority is what will bring God’s wrath upon you. My ultimate hope is that you will repent of that sin and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, that He died for sinners, was buried, and rose the third day. Trusting in that brings eternal life.

You are an infallible bible- reader
(?, you never really answered) AND a mind reader?

 

[Hammster]

You are an infallible bible- reader
(?, you never really answered) AND a mind reader?

No, and no.

 

[Astrid]

No, and no.

Then maybe it's inappropriate to claim to
know what is in other peoples' minds, and that
you know the Truth in the many regards that you
so claim ?

 

[Hammster]

Then maybe it's inappropriate to claim to
know what is in other peoples' minds, and that
you know the Truth in the many regards that you
so claim ?

Your formatting makes it difficult to get your full meaning here.

 

[Astrid]

Your formatting makes it difficult to get your full meaning here.

Sorry, it’s my English. And this program I use to help me.
I will try again.
I had many talks with a Jesuit priest in Hong Kong,
but he speaks Cantonese.

Often I am so sure I say something
so perfectly but nobody knows my meanjng.

 

[Hammster]

Sorry, it’s my English. And this program I use to help me.
I will try again.
I had many talks with a Jesuit priest in Hong Kong,
but he speaks Cantonese.

Often I am so sure I say something
so perfectly but nobody knows my meanjng.

Okay. I understand now.

Let me see if I can answer. It’s no more inappropriate for me to make claims from scripture than for you to make claims from science, especially since science is always changing. In Christianity, there’s always occasional changes to application, but the main message is the same because we have a fixed point of reference that never changes.

 

[Astrid]

Okay. I understand now.

Let me see if I can answer. It’s no more inappropriate for me to make claims from scripture than for you to make claims from science, especially since science is always changing. In Christianity, there’s always occasional changes to application, but the main message is the same because we have a fixed point of reference that never changes.

Very general statements.

Try a specific.

You say earth is only a few thousand years
old.

Simple- can you, or can you not be wrong
about that?

 

[Hammster]

Very general statements.

Try a specific.

You say earth is only a few thousand years
old.

Simple- can you, or can you not be wrong
about that?

I’ve already answered that directly. I’m not sure what you are hoping to claim by asking again and again.

 

[Astrid]

I’ve already answered that directly. I’m not sure what you are hoping to claim by asking again and again.

I'd like to understand your answer.
Just a yes or no please.

 

[Hammster]

I'd like to understand your answer.
Just a yes or no please.

I gave you a detailed answer yesterday. Go back and find it. If it’s not clear, ask me something specific about my answer.

 

[dlamberth]

In Christianity, there’s always occasional changes to application, but the main message is the same because we have a fixed point of reference that never changes.

That might point to why so many of our youth have abandoned Christianity, especially as the old Biblical Creation story is replaced by a new Science opened Creation Story.

 

[Hammster]

That might point to why so many of our youth have abandoned Christianity, especially as the old Biblical Creation story is replaced by a new Science opened Creation Story.

I don’t see how one points to the other.

 

[dlamberth]

I don’t see how one points to the other.

The knowledge increase as science explores and brings to light the vastness found in the Cosmos, as well as the extensive increase of the geological understanding of the Earth all runs counter to the Genesis Creation story and the efforts that support it. The idea that the Bible is inerrant and even the belief that the Bible is the Word of God is questioned resulting in the questioning of the beliefs of the Christian religion.

Pew Research: Why Young People Are Leaving Christianity

 

[Astrid]

The knowledge increase as science explores and brings to light the vastness found in the Cosmos, as well as the extensive increase of the geological understanding of the Earth all runs counter to the Genesis Creation story and the efforts that support it. The idea that the Bible is inerrant and even the belief that the Bible is the Word of God is questioned resulting in the questioning of the beliefs of the Christian religion.

Pew Research: Why Young People Are Leaving Christianity

The more people see something is not true,
the more they won't believe it.

 

[Hammster]

The knowledge increase as science explores and brings to light the vastness found in the Cosmos, as well as the extensive increase of the geological understanding of the Earth all runs counter to the Genesis Creation story and the efforts that support it. The idea that the Bible is inerrant and even the belief that the Bible is the Word of God is questioned resulting in the questioning of the beliefs of the Christian religion.

Pew Research: Why Young People Are Leaving Christianity

Your presupposition is that if these observations run counter to scripture, then it’s scripture that is wrong.

 

[dlamberth]

Your presupposition is that if these observations run counter to scripture, then it’s scripture that is wrong.

In the post your responding to and even in the "Answering Genesis" article linked in that post, people are abandoning the Christian religion in part because of the hard nose stance on the Genesis Creation story. Science has opened a Creation story that more reflects reality that people are moving towards.

As far as scripture related to the Genesis Creation story being "wrong", there is a mystical aspect to the Genesis story that can be touched. But not from a literal interpretation. Combine that with Creation myths of pre-Jewish religions brought forward into the Jewish trajectory and than again brought forward into early Christian beliefs.

 

[Mountainmike]

I think you are confusing accepting and/or affirming well evidenced scientific theories is the same as belief in those theories.

I am agnostic on the shroud. I have no way of knowing if it was faked or not but even if were not faked we still don't know who the body belonged even though some evidence points to a crucified body.

I don't deny that there have been Eucharistic miracles as I can site many Shamanic miracles from many parts of the world. When I was in grad school one of my supervisors (Marie Colman Nelson) Mrs. Nelson not only studied with and taught Shamans in Africa, she open a mental health clinic in Nairobi using both modern and traditional African treatments.

You are entitled to your opinion so there is nothing to get over.

I agree science is not a philosophy.

Many Christians believe in both a created universe and evolution.

I'll end with where I stated. You appear to be confusing belief with accepting that there is overwhelming evidence for the ToE.

It seems you are illinformed and confused on.
1/ the philosophical context of scientific theory.

2/ the forensic evidence underlying Eucharistic not shamanic miracles.
Studying is good before you make such a false comparison.
show me forensic evidence of CREATED life in a shamanic context , I will look at it.
creation was the context.

And as I said, any evidence of creation shows all bets are off on the age of the universe.
that is why it is important.

3/you are also apparently illinformed on the context of evolution and indeed the lack of any single theory of evolution. It is a mish mash Of thories, hypothesis and pure conjecture, together they do not explain life.
The forensic evidence of eucharistic miracles falsify Darwin’s theory by Darwins own test.

4/ I accept both evolution and creation. I can breed dogs to get longer ears.
Even the greatest optimist has to accept that evolution is not nearly a complete explanation for life.

I wish there were scientisys on creation/ evolution threads , not just those professing belief in evolution as an origin of life. Which is your take- you are welcome to your belief on origin of life, but that is all it is.

As for “ agnostic” on shroud. no idea what you mean.
You are not using words correctly.
The shroud is evidence that many atheists believe that history can be faked.

 

[Hammster]

In the post your responding to and even in the "Answering Genesis" article linked in that post, people are abandoning the Christian religion in part because of the hard nose stance on the Genesis Creation story. Science has opened a Creation story that more reflects reality that people are moving towards.

As far as scripture related to the Genesis Creation story being "wrong", there is a mystical aspect to the Genesis story that can be touched. But not from a literal interpretation. Combine that with Creation myths of pre-Jewish religions brought forward into the Jewish trajectory and then again brought forward into early Christian beliefs.

Science has created a way to try to explain away God. Professing to be wise, they became fools.

 

[sjastro]

Science has created a way to try to explain away God. Professing to be wise, they became fools.

A lot of these fools turned out to be Nobel Prize winners.

According to 100 Years of Nobel Prizes a review of Nobel prizes award between 1901 and 2000 reveals that (65.4%) of Nobel Prizes Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference.[82] Overall, 72.5% of all the Nobel Prizes in Chemistry,[83] 65.3% in Physics,[83] 62% in Medicine,[83] 54% in Economics were either Christians or had a Christian background.[83]

Here is list of contemporary scientists who identify themselves as being Christian.

List of Christians in science and technology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As I have mentioned on numerous occasions God is an unfalsifiable concept in science; neither Christians nor atheists can use science to support their faith or the lack of it.