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Can't vote -- both positions are unbiblical.
Is anybody's?Christ's position is always Biblical -- your position is rarely, if ever, Biblical.
Hi LovedofHim i cant vote because neither are true.
This all seems to be hinged on your view of matt 24 being written consecutively.
I do agree with you the AOD has already happened.
Jesus confirmed the covenant after His wilderness and then was crucified midweek right after so that took care of Dan 9's 70 removal of abominations.
I see how 70AD was a desolation of sorts, but i see the abomination as the Dome of the Rock. The muslims are satan.
Anyway maybe if i write an analogy of Matt 24 you can just get a different view for a minute.
how about this:
Dad has invited you to my after lunch wedding so I will be back tonight.
Verse 3: oh goody.so when is lunch and how will you be arriving and when?
4 listen, be careful and dont get drunk
5there will be many drinking so stay sober
6-7 for the lunch will become a wild party
8 very sad really
9 they will take things too far and get violent
10-many will turn on each other
11 some will consort with strangers
12 and some just give up on me
13 but some will keep sober and wait
14 once the news of my engagement has gone
out to to everyone then i will be arriving
15 so when you see them start opening bottles you
know it only gets worse from there
16 get away from them and go on the patio
17 leave your plate
18 dont worry about your coats
19 if you have kids protect them
20 pray thats its not raining out
21for then shall we be eating the most extravagent lunch ever cooked by dad
and never shall be again.
22And if the punch is spiked, nobody would be sober, but for the sake of the family
the punch will not be spiked.
23Then if anyone sais here is a cocktail, or there, dont drink it.
24For many strangers will bring bottles of vodka, rum and tequila to try and get the family drunk.
25 So watch out, i have told you already.
26 For if they say over there is a screwdriver, dont drink it. Or there is a rusty nail dont drink it.
29 Immediately after lunch the violinist comes to play the march.
30 then all the drunks will see him and get sick and see the groom coming out
of his chamber.
31 then dad sends the groomsmen to gather up the family.
after this the groom kicks the drunks out of the church and they pass out on the
1. Read bible
2. Feel 'inspired'
3. Act authoritative on inner gnat
4. ???
5. PROFIT
And what is Christ's position in this passage (and others) -
5When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before
Tell me, according to Jesus Himself, what comes after the abomination of desolation?
Tell me, according to Jesus Himself, what arises after the great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect?
You can read. So YOU TELL ME what Jesus said the order of events is there in Matt 24.
Your hermeneutics is pathetic, as usual. How many people have already attempted to educate you regarding the word rendered as 'then' in Mat. 24:21?? I am sure that many have -- yet, none of it registers in your brain.
Instead, you pollute the board in several topics with your nonsense claim that 'then' has to mean 'after'. If you spent more time doing your homework, you might avoid looking so foolish all of the time.
A simple check of the manuscript definition in Strong's Concordance could have alleviated you of this nonsense you keep proffering -
G5119Your insistence that 'then' can only mean 'after' is pure absurdity! Hence, the poll you established is so errant that any decent Bible student could not vote.
τότε
tote
tot'-eh
From (the neuter of) G3588 and G3753; the when, that is, at the time that (of the past or future, also in consecution): - that time, then.
The abomination of the desolator spoken by Daniel the prophet is part of the great tribulation.
God sees your attitude and what you write, Watchman2.
Tell me, what arises "at the time" when the great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then (at that time) if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.
Ok, how about this:
1. Romans are going to surround Israel and leave Israel desolate until the time of the end.
2. It's going to be a really bad time for Israel and the world until the time of the end.
3. That really bad time will be cut short because the devil will decide he's going to destroy christians and jews and thwart my end time plans as well as my plans for Israel during the millennium.
4. The devil is going to get his butt kicked down to the earth and I'm going to yank the church out of the way and protect a remnant of Israel while I allow the devil 42 months to force whomever is left to choose who they want to serve for eternity.
Then I'm going to come and destroy everybody who chooses poorly and set up my kingdom on earth.
I am confident that God approves of my attitude. A little righteous indignation and rebuking of you was/is in order! It is not like I am the first one to inform you that 'then' means 'at that time'.
It is very simple. First, one has to know what the actual 'abomination' of the desolator consists of. The Bible informs us of that 'abomination' -
2Th 2:3 . . . that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;The Antichrist [who is Satan] will be headquartered in Jerusalem claiming to be Christ. He will be directing [duped] Christians to come to him so that he can rapture them away [24:23].
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Then tell me what JESUS said arises after the great tribulation is cut short:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then (at that time) if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
Then tell me what JESUS said arises after the great tribulation is cut short:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then (at that time) if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
What arises after?
Nothing.
Immediately AFTER the tribulation they shall see the sign of the Son of Man.(The violinist that ushers in Jesus hehe)
the Antichrist has already risen. LOOK and be sober.
Its what Jesus is SAYING.
You still haven't figured it out yet -- it is not 'after'.
During the great tribulation time, the false Christ [Antichrist -- Satan, along with his angels of which 10 are the 'kings' of Rev. 13:1 and 17:12, shall be on the scene [cast out of heaven -- Rev. 12:9].
There already are many false prophets among us today -- Rapture preachers for sure. So, the false prophets to arise during the tribulation are those cast out of heaven.
I'm saying "at the time" when the great tribulation is cut short, Watchman2.
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then (at that time) if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before
The great tribulation as Jesus defined it in Matt 24 is obviously NOT what you think it is.
NO, not 'NOTHING'.
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then (at that time) if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
Your not making any sense -- the great tribulation time is shortened.
I have already demonstrated your complete error. If there is something that I have not yet addressed, please be bring it forth.
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