Another Salvation Issue Thread

[RobertZ]

I know this is getting old for some of you but I really dont think im very good at describing in words what it is that im afraid that I have done. Im sure most of you will agree that its the Holy Spirit who draws a person to Christ.

Lets say that each time the Holy Spirit speaks to you and you say not right now what do you think happens to your heart? it gets a little harder each time you resist the Holy Spirit. Well eventually I believe that a person can come to a point to where they say no to the Holy Spirit one to many times and after saying no for the last time you finally insult the Holy Spirit who is trying to lead you to Christ at which point he departs from you never to draw you to Christ again.

Now most people would say if your concerned then you didnt do that but im just not so sure about that. I think its possible that you can say no to the Holy Ghost for the last time in your life and then later down the road something can happen which makes you realize that God is no longer drawing you with his spirit and now no matter what you cannot and will not be saved. The Holy Spirit has left you and without him you cannot and will not be saved, your fate is sealed and your eternal doom is set.

 

[yvieraebrae]

In I Peter 5:8 We read that the devil comes as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. As Christians we do not run from the devil, we are to stand firm on the Word of God, fully clothed in our spiritual armour, and just dare him to try and defeat a Child of God.

I believe the devil has you on the run. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is not strong enough to draw you to Jesus? God is bigger than you are, stronger than you are, and He knows how to bring you to a place of submission. If the Holy Spirit is really drawing you to Jesus, He will not fail, He will get the job done.

Do you have any idea how much God loves you? The Bible says that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. None of us deserve salvation. We were born sinners because of the fall of Adam and Eve. Our hearts are black with sin and we deserve eternal punishment in hell. Yet God provided a way for us to be saved: namely through the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Jesus wore a crown of thorns for you.
The nails were pounded into His hands and His feet for you.
He slowly bled to death for you, so you might life.
He rose from the dead for you.
He lives for you.
He is seated at the right hand of the Father interceding for you!

What is keeping you from coming to Jesus? Is it your sins? He know all about them. He wants you to bring them with you. In other words, come as you are.

Have you ever thought of just coming to God, and telling Him honestly exactly why you are resisting the Holy Spirit? Tell Him exactly how you feel. Tell Him about the sins you want to hang on to. Tell Him all about what is bothering you and see what happens. Tell Him you think you have resisted the drawing of the Holy Spirit one to many times. Tell Him about those things you are reluctant to give up. Talk to Him about your rebellion. Isaiah 1:18 "Come now and let us reason together, saith the Lord. Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

If Jesus were to come into your room right now, sit down beside you and ask you, "Why are you resisting me? Don't you know I love you?" What would you tell Him?

I am praying for you!

 

[Jpark]

Never mind.

 

[Thankful For Grace]

Robert,

We are not tired of your posts. It is obvious that you are very frightened, and I am praying for you, as are many others, I am sure.

You cannot know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have committed the unpardonable sin; therefore, let me encourage you to sit down, start in Matthew, and read the entire NT over, again. Ask God to show you His love, patience, longsuffering, kindness, gentleness, and all His other attributes as you read. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word (rhema) of God. Let God speak to you personally through His Word--not just one passage but the entire message. God's Grace is sufficient for your sins. As many others have said--you would probably not be posting, here, if you had actually committed the unpardonable sin.

You may want to order "Reclaiming Surrendered Ground" by Jim Logan, who is a Christ centered, Bible oriented Christian counselor. He may help to shed some light on your struggles. If you are interested, you can check it out on Amazon. I think you can still get it, there, as a used book. It may be a great help to you.

God bless

 

[znr]

I empathize with you, Robert. We share a similiar problem in that we're very stuck.

I know I'm saved. The problem is, I can't seem to move beyond saved. It's not that I don't want to move beyond and grow, it's that the messages that go through my head are relentless; so relentless its as though something truly significant hinges upon my moving beyond this stuck place.

In other words, the devil doesn't want you to be clear on your position with Christ any more than he/it wants me to be free in Christ.

I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but it's a challenge. I hope you'll take it in the spirit it's meant. I can relate to you and I understand the depth of your struggle (that of being convinced of something yet wanting desperately to know the truth)

I'm going to pray for you for 30 days and I'm going to ask you if you would do the same for me. I suspect we both need our breakthrough and answers soon.

Life is really hard right now.

 

[Servant_Of_The_Lord_Jesus]

Love you bro, Unless you straight up tell God your done with him and walk away on your own then your saved. hahah sorry this is so big I got it front a website But thats all you have to do, stop makeing it more complicated then that, dude your ahead of alot of people you actually know the Holyspirit is drawing you, If your saved and spirit filled bro yea if you ignore Holyspirit your heart will get hard and you won't be sensitive to him but it doesn't mean Gods just like well i'm tired of this i'm done with him. We don't live in the old testiment anymore but the way the Isreal was God did get angry because they always complained and there hearts always turned away. you know the trust now just walk it out.
Romans 10:9
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

 

[znr]

I was going to PM you with this but I'm too new to be allowed to do that I guess.

So I'll go on ahead and just share this with you out here in front of the world. I hope this isn't a dumb move on my part. Maybe this will help you in your stuggle. You see, you're not alone. I've been in your place, and I still am in your place; the place of acute distress and stuggle. But specifically I was in the same place you're in now.

I used to lay awake at night thinking that for sure I'd committed the unpardonable sin and blasphemed the holy spirit. The holy spirit would come to me and say "Come...you know this isn't how I want you to live" or "you will never be happy without me" or "You know this is a sin" and on and on. This was a daily occurance, sometimes an hourly one. I was tormented between a rock and a hard place.

I guess this is where I lay it out and say it. I lived as a lesbian for 10 years. But I wasn't a very good lesbian. I couldn't quite shake and forget God so for 10 years lived in a hell that most people can't imagine; that of being a lesbian and knowing God and knowing how God truly feels about it and knowing that I would never, ever find a moment of peace being a lesbian.

So often I would lay in bed at night and whisper "Please, please wait for me; don't leave me, please hold on to me." - and then the next day it was back to status quo. This went on for years. Finally I just told the holy spirit to "$*^%$#$^ off already", literally; I said that. Then I did worse than that; I said worse than that. I said and did some things that to this day I still wonder why God would continue loving me.

Out of pain, and because of whatever emotional hell I was suffering from one second to the next I started to go out of my way to lambast both Christians and the Lord and the Holy Spirit. My mouth was rotten with vile words for anything to do with God, until finally I was a festering wound, a person with nowehre to turn but death or God. God never let me go. He never abandoned me. Did He let me get hurt? Yes. Did He let me have my way? Yes. What could he do? It was my will against His. It was war.

Well I lost the war. Actually, I lost more than that. I would be unkind to tell you that I didn't pay a price. Oh, and the devil. He sure didn't like seeing me bowing before God begging for mercy when I lost everything. For a long time I was pretty convinced that God was punishing me. It would be a few years before I realized that it wasn't God punishing me.

It's not easy, Robert, knowing God, even questioning God while living in a world where the devil rules. It's not easy being indoctrinated by religion and then being left with painful scars and being dumped off down into a deep, black frightening hole and then left there to live with false teaching and other lies - harder yet to live there and see the ladder dangling constantly, just out of reach.

God has barely begun the process of blasting away all the filthy lies that somehow glomed on to me by way of religion and indoctrination, and the lies I learned from an abusive mean spirited father, the lies learned from a mother who (as it turns out really did love me -- but was so broken herself she could barely manage), the lies the devil was able to slowly convince me were true. And I battle, Robert. Every day I battle as though I'm literally trying to chisel my way our of a cement fortress. I wonder daily, why is this such a battle and when will I finally find Joy.

The irony here is that having been a lesbian wasn't the sin that kept me from God. What kept me from God wasn't just one little thing. What kept me from God was rejection, lies, lies intricately woven by a master lair - lies that from his point of view he was certain that I was sure never to even catch on. ...Well I did. And daily I'm finding that it's a process wherein I have to continually "catch on". Some days it's so exhausting I want to give up and check out. The trouble is, I have nowhere left to run but to God.

This is just a little of my own story. I can't imagine the rest is important now, but believe me when I tell you I have known intimately the torment of not knowing for sure where I stand with God. Now, I live daily wondering if I can just move beyond salvation and get down to the business of being whole.

 

[wayfaring man]

Hi RZ ,

Greetings in Christ . I'm glad you brought this up again , because earlier today this was strongly impressed upon me to say to you and others who are feeling sort of the same way .

I believe as you say that The Holy Spirit can be dissed unto our own doom , but because God is extremely merciful and longsuffering , doing so might be the hardest thing in the world , which one can possibly do .

But our adversary seeks to throw us off the truth , for when we align with the truth , he loses his manipulative power over us .

So , the devil will either try to convince us that we're so secure in our salvation that we can ignore Christ's direction and instruction , and everything will work out anyway .

Or , the deceiver will try to persuade us that because we've already ignored so many critical opportunities to heed His Word / Spirit , that now our chances have run out .

Both of these are lies , in that they either terribly diminish the truth about Salvation , or grossly exaggerate it .

And that's basically how lies are formed . Lies are not eternal . Truth is eternal . In order for a lie to come into ( temporary ) existence , the truth has to be altered in such a way that it is no longer true...But since truth is directly sustained by The Power of God , and lies are not... all lies will soon perish in the light of the everlasting truth .

When Jesus spoke of the unforgivable sin , He spoke the truth in love for to warn us against such a horrible thing . So what else can the adversary do , but try to get us to ignore the warning , or think that the warning has come too late .

Some time ago , after praying for God's help on this , there came a day , where satan whispered in my ear that I had gone too far , past the point of recovery ... and then these words came ( without premeditation ) - " If it were true that I'm beyond hope , why would you still be trying to convince me of it !"

The truth is only God knows perfectly , who is who and what is what .

Let us consider then , the possibilities .

Of which there are basically 4 .

1. We believe there's still hope - and indeed there surely is !

2. We believe there's still hope - but we've actually gone too far !

3. We believe there's no hope - and indeed there is none !

4. Or we believe there is no hope - when in fact there still is !

Obviously possibility # 1 is the best .

But since at this point we cannot see how things will turn out exactly ....

# 4 poses the greatest threat in your situation - in the sense that it can prevent us from moving forward and drawing closer to God - when indeed the way and the door may still be held open for us .

I believe the thorn in Paul's flesh was a messenger from satan , bringing up Paul's misdeeds while he was Saul , and Paul asked The Lord to take it away , but The Lord told him His grace was sufficient ... so how was The Lord's grace sufficient ? In giving Paul an even greater conviction on the need to keep pressing forward , leaving the past behind .

( See 2nd Corinthians Chapter 12 & Philippians Chapter 3 )

With these things in mind I strongly advise , you accept and embrace a hopeful spirit , and to pray for The Lord to rebuke the accuser's lies - for how horrible would it be to find out we gave up on hope , when we really didn't have to !

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why doth he yet hope for?
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. <-----> Romans 8:24+25

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope... <---> Ecclesiastes 9:4

May The Lord Be Pleased to Relieve & Empower !

wm

 

[annrobert]

Robert ,

Jesus said he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

That will never change

Jesus is Truth and His Word shall not pass away.
Jesus is loving and tenderhearted and compassionate

Jesus is our strength


Robert Jesus will bring you through this

blessings

amen warfaring man great post



Brendarose it sounds like you have been through some very hard times.
keep holding on to Jesus
He is the answer to all

 

[StTherese]

The unforgivable sin is the one in which a person refuses to repent. It sounds to me like you want forgiveness and you do not want to ignore the promptings of the Holy Spirit. The only sins we can not be forgiven is the ones we refuse to repent...there is no sin too big for God to forgive. God wants us all to be saved and I do not believe He will refuse any of us who come to Him with a sincere heart.

 

[Peripatetic]

Robert: did you ever consider the fact that all this conflict is not coming from the Holy Spirit, but from the devil/evil influence? Sometimes the difference between the Holy Spirit convicting us and the devil/evil condemning us can be very hard to see, and that's why it is so dangerous. From what I can see here, it sounds a lot more like you are experiencing condemnation. A very big indication comes from the self-doubt and long-term consequences that are consuming you. That's exactly what the Devil wants: for you to doubt your self-worth and salvation (and in doing so, doubt the cleansing mercy of God). Try to change your perspective on this matter through prayer and listening to the words of the many wise people here who are helping you through this tough time. It is not your sin that is starting to harden your heart... it's the doubt, which is not coming from God. I can assure you of that.

 

[Aibrean]

The Holy Spirit doesn't leave. You just leave the Holy Spirit. You can come back if you want.

 

[rachel22]

Robert ,

Jesus said he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

That will never change

that is so true, the Lord Jesus did not cast me out when i came to Him to be saved and He will not cast you out robert. i am praying for the Lord Jesus to comfort your soul, robert.....i pray you will follow Him IN SPITE OF your feelings.

 

[Jeshu]

I know this is getting old for some of you but I really dont think im very good at describing in words what it is that im afraid that I have done. Im sure most of you will agree that its the Holy Spirit who draws a person to Christ.

Lets say that each time the Holy Spirit speaks to you and you say not right now what do you think happens to your heart? it gets a little harder each time you resist the Holy Spirit. Well eventually I believe that a person can come to a point to where they say no to the Holy Spirit one to many times and after saying no for the last time you finally insult the Holy Spirit who is trying to lead you to Christ at which point he departs from you never to draw you to Christ again.

Now most people would say if your concerned then you didnt do that but im just not so sure about that. I think its possible that you can say no to the Holy Ghost for the last time in your life and then later down the road something can happen which makes you realize that God is no longer drawing you with his spirit and now no matter what you cannot and will not be saved. The Holy Spirit has left you and without him you cannot and will not be saved, your fate is sealed and your eternal doom is set.

Robert if the Holy Spirit really says no - why are you seeking yes - what in you longs for God's good???

What god would condemn those who seek to serve Him?

The Truth isn't like that - your truth is - that is the problem.

You have let your faithful self be taken captivate through unfaithful self - bringing you judgement!

Now because you read the Truth of God through the spirit of judgement - for judgement is on you for doing that to the truth - you have arrived where you are now at - a lie - hurting you so - and making a mockery of Christ's sacrifice - only Satan is please with how things are now - that's for sure -

Yet you know that God is love - and where is love in your judgement? You killed it stone dead! That's why you are stuck!

For indeed you grief God's Spirit within you, jailing Him and forcing His voice of loving truth out of your reality so your truth of judgement may rule you instead - (Rejoice about this - you have heard Him cry out in pain about it all, so at least you share life there.)


This is the problem - judgement is blind and deaf - yet luckily - no eyes have seen, no ears have heard.... - yet faith in truth is what you need to fill in the rest.

On your knees my friend that is where God's Spirit wants you, for loving truth is what you need really badly, so unloving judgement can fall, for His voice within is God's truth spoken in love for God, yourself and all others, listen to no-one else! (If you can't find Him - you got Him locked up in your inner jail along with all those other parts of you where you have faith in Jesus!)


Praying you can please your judge tonight!


Gerry