Another Noah's thread (no stoning please :))

[sfs]

It's amazing how you guys think.
I thought you were realists - you are wasting your time with me here anyway ... waste it looking at the video.

I'm a realist, of sorts, and one aspect of reality that I'm familiar with is that there are untold number of cheats, frauds and liars out there, and even more honestly deluded cranks. Since I have no desire to spend my entire remaining lifespan chasing meaningless crackpottery, I require better vetted evidence than a self-made video before I'll consider extraordinary claims. The prior probability that there's anything to what Wyatt claims is very small.

 

[Edial]

No, I'm not taking an AIG opinion. It was merely an example (and there are more) of creationist literature which happens to align with my opinion in this case. I did this merely to demonstrate to you that there is every reason to be skeptical of Ron Wyatt's findings. I even included a caveat that I didn't know how accurate Snellings article was.

You are clearly just trying to goad me into watching the video.

Let me know when you are finished researching Giorgio A. Tsoukalos' claims...

Right.
You are taking creationist opinion to align with your opinion on Wyatt. And your opinion on this was apparently based on someone else's opinion.

And if you are skeptical you are apparently content being in that state.
Which is fine. I have no problem with this.

I am not goading you to watch the video.
You came here.
I was truly impressed (speaking for myself) with that video.
So, I opened a thread and others post.

My question in OP is sincere.

Concerning Giorgio, I do not know much about him.
What I do know is he has nothing to do with Wyatt.

 

[Seipai]

Why should we waste our time with that video?

Wyatt was a fraud. When even his fellow creationists realize that he was a fraud why should people who understand science have to do any additional work to debunk him?

If you got taken in by someone like that how would any of us be able to convince you that he was wrong?

 

[Edial]

I'm a realist, of sorts, and one aspect of reality that I'm familiar with is that there are untold number of cheats, frauds and liars out there, and even more honestly deluded cranks. Since I have no desire to spend my entire remaining lifespan chasing meaningless crackpottery, I require better vetted evidence than a self-made video before I'll consider extraordinary claims. The prior probability that there's anything to what Wyatt claims is very small.

If you are a realist how would you know anything unless you test it.

I also wonder if you might ask yourself why is it that many atheists do not look at the Bible, but instead read commentaries from websites that the Bible is wrong.

No problem.

 

[46AND2]

Right.
You are taking creationist opinion to align with your opinion on Wyatt. And your opinion on this was apparently based on someone else's opinion.

.

Bad assumption. I have read Wyatt's claims, myself, and find them nothing short of ridiculous. and researched for his answers to obvious questions he should have made clear in his presentations, only to find that he had no answers.

I also looked for his peer reviewed papers and found none.

I watched his video on supposedly finding remnants of Sodom and Gomorrah, and nearly snorted soda out of my nose in the first five minutes.

 

[Edial]

Why should we waste our time with that video?

Wyatt was a fraud. When even his fellow creationists realize that he was a fraud why should people who understand science have to do any additional work to debunk him?

If you got taken in by someone like that how would any of us be able to convince you that he was wrong?

But you are wasting your time here as well.

Here is your chance to tell me where I am wrong.

Aren't scientists the ones who want to look at every piece of evidence?

And BTW, do you know if outside of saying that Wyatt's Noah's Ark was fraud, ... if it was proven to be fraud?

I saw that Wyatt apparently responded to somethings AIG tried to debunk and he debunked them ...

Again, you are the specialists on this.
I am not.

 

[46AND2]

If you are a realist how would you know anything unless you test it.

I also wonder if you might ask yourself why is it that many atheists do not look at the Bible, but instead read commentaries from websites that the Bible is wrong.

No problem.

1. sfs is a Christian
2. I am a former YEC, and have looked at the Bible many, many times. I don't need commentaries to show me how the Bible was wrong. I started realizing it long before I ever read any anti-Christian literature.

 

[Edial]

Answers in Genesis has been know to grasp at the thinnest of straws to defend creationism and the Noah's Ark myth. If even they say that Wyatt is not being honest you can be very sure that Wyatt was a con man to say the least.

Not at all.

AIG defends only the young earth creationists.
And the Bible has very solid evidence that the earth is old.

 

[Edial]

1. sfs is a Christian
2. I am a former YEC, and have looked at the Bible many, many times. I don't need commentaries to show me how the Bible was wrong. I started realizing it long before I ever read any anti-Christian literature.

But whoever told you that YEC is the only creationist view?
And YEC will debate any Christian who thinks the earth is old.

 

[46AND2]

But whoever told you that YEC is the only creationist view?
And YEC will debate any Christian who thinks the earth is old.

I went from YEC to OEC to theistic evolutionist, to agnostic theist to atheist. I've done the whole gamut. Tried for more than a decade to maintain my faith.

 

[Seipai]

The Noah's Ark myth is pretty much a YEC myth.

 

[Edial]

Bad assumption. I have read Wyatt's claims, myself, and find them nothing short of ridiculous. and researched for his answers to obvious questions he should have made clear in his presentations, only to find that he had no answers.

I also looked for his peer reviewed papers and found none.

I watched his video on supposedly finding remnants of Sodom and Gomorrah, and nearly snorted soda out of my nose in the first five minutes.

But so far you are doing everything but looking at the horse's teeth.

It's right here. You could have watched the video 3 times by now.

 

[Seipai]

But so far you are doing everything but looking at the horse's teeth.

It's right here. You could have watched the video 3 times by now.

We have better things to do. At the very most I would watch it until his first clear error. If that was found and point out to you would you accept that he was in error? What would you give us in return?

 

[Edial]

I went from YEC to OEC to theistic evolutionist, to agnostic theist to atheist. I've done the whole gamut. Tried for more than a decade to maintain my faith.

And I came from atheist, to Baptist and to Lutheran.

Faith is not that complicated.
It usually gets danaged when there is denial.
And usually there is a denial when the Bible says something and it disagrees with our personal view. Not with facts, but with my personal like or dislike.

But, when one accepts what is written despite of personal dislike or disagreement, then faith will pull him out.

The saying - faith will set you free is quiet true.

 

[Edial]

We have better things to do. At the very most I would watch it until his first clear error. If that was found and point out to you would you accept that he was in error? What would you give us in return?

Yes, I would.
Just do not forget that in the beginning he is presenting some of the fake claims.
What would I give you in return? What do you want?
I want to hear your opinion and saying that this or that is wrong.
As I said, I am not an expert in this - but this thing seems like a real thing.

 

[Edial]

The Noah's Ark myth is pretty much a YEC myth.

 

[TheBear]

Can someone post a recap of the video? I'm approaching my bandwidth limit.

Thanks

 

[46AND2]

And I came from atheist, to Baptist and to Lutheran.

Faith is not that complicated.
It usually gets danaged when there is denial.
And usually there is a denial when the Bible says something and it disagrees with our personal view. Not with facts, but with my personal like or dislike.

But, when one accepts what is written despite of personal dislike or disagreement, then faith will pull him out.

The saying - faith will set you free is quiet true.

Has nothing to do with what I like or dislike.

If I had to pick one word to describe my lack of faith, you know what it would be? Logic. No matter what denomination you are, at some point, you have to have faith that defies logic...unless you are the most liberal of Christians, and at that point, there's not much difference between him and an atheist who recognizes the good literature and teachings the Bible possesses.

 

[TheBear]

But I don't have to agree with Answers in Genesis on everything they say.

But, it isn't about you.


Its about claims being made on a video, and who is making the claims, and how not only has the secular community exposed Wyatt as a fraud, but also a section of the Christian community, including organizations such as Answers in Genesis, (who's agenda is to defend the YEC position), are distancing themselves from Wyatt.


See? It wasn't about you after all.

What a relief, eh?

 

[Edial]

Has nothing to do with what I like or dislike.

If I had to pick one word to describe my lack of faith, you know what it would be? Logic. No matter what denomination you are, at some point, you have to have faith that defies logic...unless you are the most liberal of Christians, and at that point, there's not much difference between him and an atheist who recognizes the good literature and teachings the Bible possesses.

But who said that faith must defy logic?
Tell me, what is so unreasonable that there is another form of life that created us?

Why must faith defy logic?

Oh, one might think it is unbelievable that there is another life form.
OK. I accept that.
But it certainly not unreasonable.