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I am saying its not literal. "True/false" do not apply to non-literal genres. Its using a formal logic on texts that were created before any such rationalism.So you're saying it's all false.
The RCC agrees with you.Established by whom. And who wrote it, how did it become part of the Pentateuch?
No way, Jesus spoke of these things as though they took place. So did Paul.
The RCC tries to read it both ways, kind of:The RCC agrees with you.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church seems to affirm the belief that Adam and Eve were not mere symbols but literally our first parents:
- It teaches that Eve in some manner was created from Adam (CCC 371).
- It contrasts the first Adam with Christ (CCC 359).
- It refers to Adam and Eve as our “first parents” created in an original state of justice and holiness (CCC 375), which they lost when they sinned (CCC 399-400).
- It identifies Adam as the source of sin in contrast to Christ as the source of grace (CCC 388).
- It affirms St. Paul’s teaching in Romans 5:18 that by one man’s sin all of humanity is affected (CCC 402).
- It teaches that all men are Adam’s descendants and are implicated in his sin (CCC 404).
- It teaches that Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin (CCC 417).
We believe in a literal Adam and Eve. But I am having a hard time connecting this topic with conspiratorial moon landings.The RCC tries to read it both ways, kind of:
Genesis, Symbolical or Literal
It is both real and symbolic. It is real in that it describes events that truly took place but symbolic in that it does not recount an exact scientific and hist...www.catholic.com
Some sentences are trying to be so inclusive that they are hard to understand, for example:
"It is both real and symbolic. It is real in that it describes events that truly took place but symbolic in that it does not recount an exact scientific and historical rendering of events."
Well, the reasoning is probably this - if you believe in literal Adam and Eve, you should believe in literal firmament and flat earth, in literal dust, literal days, literal serpent etc., because its all in the same book and close to each other.We believe in a literal Adam and Eve. But I am having a hard time connecting this topic with conspiratorial moon landings.
No. that not how it works in our thinking but we are basically free to believe as we please except that there is a literal Adam and Eve. How God went about it is somewhat of a mystery. There is no official document on it. It’s not really a topic that fits in this forum anyway. Catholics are not fundamentalist or Sola Scriptura.Well, the reasoning is probably this - if you believe in literal Adam and Eve, you should believe in literal firmament and flat earth, in literal dust, literal days, literal serpent etc., because its all in the same book and close to each other.
So only the existence of two first parents of homo sapiens sapiens is taken literally, but no other biblical details?No. that not how it works in our thinking but we are basically free to believe as we please except that there is a literal Adam and Eve. How God went about it is somewhat of a mystery. There is no official document on it. It’s not really a topic that fits in this forum anyway. Catholics are not fundamentalist or Sola Scriptura.
I bought my first Bible dictionary decades ago. I've been at this for over 50 years. And I've been down roads like this before. Don't assume you know more than others. I'm just trying to pin you down because you're zig-zagging all over the place.For such questions it would be best if you bought a good Bible dictionary. If you do not want to, sources like wikipedia must be enough.
You're trying to understand the Bible from a purely secular approach. That doesn't usually work out out very well.It may seem so, when you do not understand the role of mythos and of Scriptures in ancient societies. They did not use scientific formulations when teaching their point, they used the culturally accepted stories.
Nope. A purely secular approach would for example not accept things like the resurrection or the deity of Christ.You're trying to understand the Bible from a purely secular approach.
The theology of Christ is founded in the existence of Adam and Eve and what took place that resulted in the downfall of mankind. You are saying Christ the Messiah is based on a fairy tale.Well, the reasoning is probably this - if you believe in literal Adam and Eve, you should believe in literal firmament and flat earth, in literal dust, literal days, literal serpent etc., because its all in the same book and close to each other.
No we back up our beliefs with Sacred Scripture as can be found in the CCC. But as far as Creation/evolution and how it came about, we are free to believe as we wish concerning the topic except for the fact we do believe in a literal Adam and Eve. And that God is the author of all of creation.So only the existence of two first parents of homo sapiens sapiens is taken literally, but no other biblical details?
I'd call your approach ham-handed.Nope. A purely secular approach would for example not accept things like the resurrection or the deity of Christ.
Instead of secular, I would call my approach "minimalistic".
Nope. Our need of Savior is not based in Adam and Eve, but in our own sinfulness.The theology of Christ is founded in the existence of Adam and Eve and what took place that resulted in the downfall of mankind. You are saying Christ the Messiah is based on a fairy tale.
OK, I do not understand how it can work, but thats not the topic.No we back up our beliefs with Sacred Scripture as can be found in the CCC. But as far as Creation/evolution and how it came about, we are free to believe as we wish concerning the topic except for the fact we do believe in a literal Adam and Eve. And that God is the author of all of creation.
We believe in Faith and Tradition, etc. You can look it up.
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—Nope. Our need of Savior is not based in Adam and Eve, but in our own sinfulness.
Well you can look it up but agreed. Not the topic at all.OK, I do not understand how it can work, but thats not the topic.
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:12-19.
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20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24
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... the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Luke 3:38
Connection not secure. You seem to rely on the internet a lot. I'm still waiting for you to cite a well respected theologian and or bible scholar who backs up what you're saying. That really shouldn't be difficult if it's legit Christian teaching.
Yep, internet is great! This forum is also "internet".You seem to rely on the internet a lot.
Not sure why you are waiting when I already answered you. So, to repeat it:I'm still waiting for you to cite a well respected theologian and or bible scholar who backs up what you're saying. That really shouldn't be difficult if it's legit Christian teaching.
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