Another "Living Together" Topic...

[John the Engineer]

I know we've had this topic a bunch of times, but here's mine!

My situation is this, I was involved with a girl but her Mom made us break it off (long story, plenty of other threads to discuss this) But I just talked to her and she's really having a hard time with the separation as well. It was not the decision of either of us, and we still love eachother a lot. Her Mom's decision that she didn't want us together is not rational or Christian based. It is based in racism and controlling her daughter. Very very manipulative woman (could go on for hours about examples)

Anyway, I was a college student, but am now reopenning working. Thanks to God's mercy I have a lot of very good job opportunities. We're not talking "Manager of a McDonald's", but very good jobs. She's still going to college and wants to go to Med School.

My question is this, would it still be unwise for me to get a job and support her going through college so she could be outside the influence of her Mom?

Before we go off on the whole "temptation" and all that, we have already had sex, it's one of the reasons I'm still trying so hard to make this work. And as for the "just get married" part, she's still scared a bit because when she got engaged to her ex he started cheating on her and basically treating her like he could do whatever he wanted because "she wouldn't go anywhere"

As I've discussed it with my parents, and as many pastor's they know have said, in the eyes of the Lord we are one. The damage we have sown into our relationship by having sex, and a lot of other things, is something that we are going to have to fight, but I love her and believe with the Lord's redemption we can be saved from this.

 

[Mrs K 2004]

I'm trying to stay away from this type of a post; but I feel the need to step into this one!

Your situation is a unique one; and I am sorry you are being put in this place! (and a horrible one to be in!)

I understand your girlfriends reservations about marriage; as I also have an ex fiance who cheated on me... So I sympathize with her in her reserve. But she will eventually need to open up and trust.

This is not a problem for the members of this forum to decide! (And many will advise against it strongly...) This is between you, her and God.

I will keep the two of you in my prayers and thoughts and hope that you make the correct decision!

 

[msjones21]

Okay wait a sec...you want to move in with your girlfriend so that the two of you can be together away from the clutches of her mother? Baaaaaaad idea, John. That's why I got married at 18...he and I wanted to be out of the grasp of our parents (who did not approve of our relationship at all). We got married for the worst reason of all and we were divorced within two years.

Don't do something you will regret. You either need to let her go or do the honorable thing and marry her. There's is no gray fuzzy area. There is no "well we've already had sex so we're one". It doesn't work that way. We can't bargain with God. This arrangement is bad, even if you did abstain from having sex. You're trying to drive a wedge between this girl and her mother. That is something that she will most like end up resenting you for.

I have no doubt in my mind you love her, but you need to let her go. If it's God's will the two of you will be together in time. If you love her, don't put a divide between her and her parents because regardless of whether or not you like her mother or you think she's evil and manipulative, she still birthed and raised that girl and that is something that merits respect.

 

[Warrior Poet]

Is there something in the CF water????????

Warrior Poet

 

[LadyBird]

LOL WP...I was wondering the same thing myself.

 

[Godzman]

I know we've had this topic a bunch of times, but here's mine!

My situation is this, I was involved with a girl but her Mom made us break it off (long story, plenty of other threads to discuss this) But I just talked to her and she's really having a hard time with the separation as well. It was not the decision of either of us, and we still love eachother a lot. Her Mom's decision that she didn't want us together is not rational or Christian based. It is based in racism and controlling her daughter. Very very manipulative woman (could go on for hours about examples)

Anyway, I was a college student, but am now reopenning working. Thanks to God's mercy I have a lot of very good job opportunities. We're not talking "Manager of a McDonald's", but very good jobs. She's still going to college and wants to go to Med School.

My question is this, would it still be unwise for me to get a job and support her going through college so she could be outside the influence of her Mom?

Before we go off on the whole "temptation" and all that, we have already had sex, it's one of the reasons I'm still trying so hard to make this work. And as for the "just get married" part, she's still scared a bit because when she got engaged to her ex he started cheating on her and basically treating her like he could do whatever he wanted because "she wouldn't go anywhere"

As I've discussed it with my parents, and as many pastor's they know have said, in the eyes of the Lord we are one. The damage we have sown into our relationship by having sex, and a lot of other things, is something that we are going to have to fight, but I love her and believe with the Lord's redemption we can be saved from this.

I'll be praying for you man, that God would lead you in the right direction

 

[John the Engineer]

She may be birthed and raised by her Mom, but that does not make her Mom right. For many reasons. Remember that Jezebel caused the destruction of Israel by manipulating her descendents. Parents who are submitting their lives to Christ are those to follow, but as it says in Matthew 23:9 "Call no man father", I believe this is to say that the Lord is the one who guides you first and no man (or woman) of the earth is your first and true guidance.

Believe me, I would marry her in a heartbeat, but I am worried about making it so fast that she feels that we just jumped in to get away and that was that.

The other option I've been debating is just to support her financially. Get her a second apartment, loan her one of my cars, and then just living like that for awhile.

As for the whole idea of resenting me, that is one thing that's bothered me. And one thing that has been the most forward in my mind (well, other than if it's God's will)

I have been praying deeply for her and her family. Praying that the Lord would give us guidance and a way. I just wanted to put this up here to find the "other side" of all my thoughts for it.

Thanks for the help MsJones. You're always a good source.

 

[John the Engineer]

Is there something in the CF water????????

Warrior Poet

Nah, just the Southern California water for me. It's called polution. I don't trust air I can't see!

 

[SirKenin]

Hai, you have to honor her mother John. That's the real issue here. You may not like the way she does business, but ultimately that doesn't matter I'm afraid

Incidentally, I did the exact same thing as you. My ex-girlfriend's parents didn't want her seeing me. It got so bad that they threatened to kick her out if she continued, so she moved in with me.

Let me tell you from experience. This is the worst darn thing you could ever do in your life. Make no mistake, blood is thicker than water.

Do yourself a big favor and don't do it.

 

[msjones21]

She may be birthed and raised by her Mom, but that does not make her Mom right. For many reasons. Remember that Jezebel caused the destruction of Israel by manipulating her descendents. Parents who are submitting their lives to Christ are those to follow, but as it says in Matthew 23:9 "Call no man father", I believe this is to say that the Lord is the one who guides you first and no man (or woman) of the earth is your first and true guidance.

Believe me, I would marry her in a heartbeat, but I am worried about making it so fast that she feels that we just jumped in to get away and that was that.

The other option I've been debating is just to support her financially. Get her a second apartment, loan her one of my cars, and then just living like that for awhile.

As for the whole idea of resenting me, that is one thing that's bothered me. And one thing that has been the most forward in my mind (well, other than if it's God's will)

I have been praying deeply for her and her family. Praying that the Lord would give us guidance and a way. I just wanted to put this up here to find the "other side" of all my thoughts for it.

Thanks for the help MsJones. You're always a good source.

John, I understand your feelings, but you also have to respect that boundary. There is a line you never, ever, ever cross, and that is the line between you and the woman you love and her mother. Unless her mother is starving, beating, sexually molesting, or verbally assaulting her you can't intervene. Your girlfriend is also only telling you half the story. Her mother may not be as bad as she is making her out to be. You and your girlfriend are going to see her as the enemy. In all honesty, this reminds me of high school, not something two adults should be going through.

I have been following your tale of woe and I have to say this entire situation leaves this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Something about it just really bothers me. On one hand I feel for you and your girlfriend. On the other hand it really bothers me the way you blatantly disregard the very important relationship between a girl and her mother. You claim you love this girl and yet I keep feeling that you're doing all of these things not so much out of love for your girlfriend, but for your own selfish desires. You may not even realize you're doing it. You may earnestly feel that by doing these things you are showing your girlfriend how much you care, but have you even stopped to think one, five, twenty years down the road? Have you thought about how this will affect her entire life? Have you even thought about how this is going to make her feel? Are you not in the least bit concerned about your girlfriend's feelings in the long-run? As a temporary measure it may seem like a great idea to remove her from her mother because that eliminates the one struggle in your relationship. You're taking the easy way out for you, not for your girlfriend. Are you not worried that she may eventually feel you tore her away from her mother and then resent you? If you think her mother dislikes you now, just wait until you "steal" her daughter. Do everyone a favor and let her go. I've said it over and over and I will continue to say it...if it's God's will it will happen. You're are not fully trusting in God to take care of this. You have to let go with both hands and surrender it to Him. I will continue praying for all of you. That God will soften the mother's heart. That He will help you do the right thing. That He will help give your girlfriend the strength.

 

[John the Engineer]

Hai, you have to honor her mother John. That's the real issue here.

The mother wants to push her back to being with the guy she was with. This is the same guy that cheated on her, pushed her to drink, and was going out doing drugs.

Honor her mother yes, but to honor a mother who intends to do harm to her daughter for her own personal regrets in life? Is that right? Is it right to honor a mother's decision when she is not based on the will of the Lord?

I would have said the same thing, but in recent times I've seen a lot of corruption and I've questioned that. Is it right for a mother who won't let her daughter honor the Lord to be honored by her daughter?

 

[John the Engineer]

John, I understand your feelings, but you also have to respect that boundary. There is a line you never, ever, ever cross, and that is the line between you and the woman you love and her mother. Unless her mother is starving, beating, sexually molesting, or verbally assaulting her you can't intervene. Your girlfriend is also only telling you half the story. Her mother may not be as bad as she is making her out to be. You and your girlfriend are going to see her as the enemy. In all honesty, this reminds me of high school, not something two adults should be going through.

I have been following your tale of woe and I have to say this entire situation leaves this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Something about it just really bothers me. On one hand I feel for you and your girlfriend. On the other hand it really bothers me the way you blatantly disregard the very important relationship between a girl and her mother. You claim you love this girl and yet I keep feeling that you're doing all of these things not so much out of love for your girlfriend, but for your own selfish desires. You may not even realize you're doing it. You may earnestly feel that by doing these things you are showing your girlfriend how much you care, but have you even stopped to think one, five, twenty years down the road? Have you thought about how this will affect her entire life? Have you even thought about how this is going to make her feel? Are you not in the least bit concerned about your girlfriend's feelings in the long-run? As a temporary measure it may seem like a great idea to remove her from her mother because that eliminates the one struggle in your relationship. You're taking the easy way out for you, not for your girlfriend. Are you not worried that she may eventually feel you tore her away from her mother and then resent you? If you think her mother dislikes you now, just wait until you "steal" her daughter. Do everyone a favor and let her go. I've said it over and over and I will continue to say it...if it's God's will it will happen. You're are not fully trusting in God to take care of this. You have to let go with both hands and surrender it to Him. I will continue praying for all of you. That God will soften the mother's heart. That He will help you do the right thing. That He will help give your girlfriend the strength.

Verbally assaulting, yes. But beyond that, I'm not looking to tear her away, in fact I haven't talked to her and I won't talk to her about her Mom anymore. She knows it but has nowhere to run. Which is why I am looking at what I can be available to do for her. I'm not looking to tear her away.

My grandma is very similar (scarily similar actually) to her Mom, and she pushed my Mom into and out of two marriages. Finally she rebelled against her Mom and married my Dad, 31 years later the marriage is happy.

I know this should be an interesting debate, but does "honor your Mother and Father" truly mean to follow EVERYTHING they say. If it does then my Mom has been a sinner for a long time. In fact a lot of people who turn to the Lord are sinners. Especially those that turn from other faiths.

I'd rather not publish in public forum the complete story of what her Mom has done. Just not appropriate or correct.

But at what point do you draw the line of honoring the mother? The only reason she still does is because of the fact that her Mom holds the money.

Ok, go ahead

 

[msjones21]

I'd rather not publish in public forum the complete story of what her Mom has done. Just not appropriate or correct.

I respect that. Everyone deserves the right to privacy. I don't know the situation. I know that when I was dating my first love (in high school) it seemed his parents hated me for no reason. We had to sneak to be together. We plotted, schemed, tried to figure out how we would get him to move away from his parents. So we got married right out of high school. In hindsight I realize it merely compounded the problem. It seemed like the right thing to do, but it wasn't.

But at what point do you draw the line of honoring the mother?

There is no line drawn. The Bible does not say "honor your mother and father unless they ______________" Or "honor your mother and father only if they _________________" It doesn't work that way. Sometimes parents make it really hard to honor them. Sometimes it's almost impossible and we certainly don't always succeed, but it doesn't change what the Word says.

The only reason she still does is because of the fact that her Mom holds the money.

Not trying to sound rude or judgemental, but if I were somebody's girlfriend and I really wanted to be with somebody against my mother's wishes I would get a job. I would quit school, work two jobs, anything to make the money to get out and be independent. In my opinion, it *appears* (and keep in mind, my assumptions are just that, assumptions) that your girlfriend isn't trying very hard. She has thrown her hands up, b****ed about her mother, and would be willing to let you float her through this ordeal. It's admirable you're willing to help her, but be careful. Don't let her take advantage of you by using her mother as a method to tug at your heartstrings.

 

[SirKenin]

The mother wants to push her back to being with the guy she was with. This is the same guy that cheated on her, pushed her to drink, and was going out doing drugs.

Honor her mother yes, but to honor a mother who intends to do harm to her daughter for her own personal regrets in life? Is that right? Is it right to honor a mother's decision when she is not based on the will of the Lord?

I would have said the same thing, but in recent times I've seen a lot of corruption and I've questioned that. Is it right for a mother who won't let her daughter honor the Lord to be honored by her daughter?

Well, for one, God never put a condition on the ten commandments. He said "Honor your father and your mother" and that was it.

For another, she will have to contend with her mother. She can honor her mother without having to bow to her every whim.

Again, I feel I need to repeat this. Blood is thicker than water. She will always head back there, despite almost anything. Family always takes precedence over a friend or a relationship. I guess what I'm saying is that the mother will never be out of your life or, alternatively, your relationship would turn into a big lie.

It would be an extremely difficult path to follow

 

[John the Engineer]

Well, for one, God never put a condition on the ten commandments. He said "Honor your father and your mother" and that was it.

For another, she will have to contend with her mother. She can honor her mother without having to bow to her every whim.

According to everything I'm reading I don't see how you see that. Which brings up the point of what "Honoring" really is. Is it bowing to her every whim? Because so far that's what everyone is saying.

If my Mom was to honor her Mom, then she would not have married my Dad, and she probably would've been married another few times. At a certain point a child becomes an adult, and at that point the parents need to acknowledge that. If they don't, the "child" is responsible for their own life, and they cannot just follow the parents blindly.

Think about it, had you sat there and done nothing, how long would your parents have controlled your life? Even in marriage some parents still try to control their children. Is this God's will? My Mom is still in rebellion of her family because she's ... ready ... NOT Jewish. Which means every day she goes to church and honors Christ she is not honoring her Mom. So which is it? Is she supposed to honor God or her Mom?

Again, I feel I need to repeat this. Blood is thicker than water. She will always head back there, despite almost anything. Family always takes precedence over a friend or a relationship. I guess what I'm saying is that the mother will never be out of your life or, alternatively, your relationship would turn into a big lie.

To say she'll always head back there is not true. Family that tries to control will either break the child, or they will break the relationship. I've seen it a lot, in my family and in many others. Families that support a child always have that connection. I never met my Grandma until I was 14 because after destroying her relationship with my Mom by trying to control her, she wasn't welcomed by us anymore. I just met my Aunt a few months ago.

As for why she doesn't leave on her own, her Mom has her so confused between the dreams that her Mom wants to impose and what her dreams are that she is desiring to go to Med School. Her Mom regrets it, and so has been pushing her to go her entire life (or at least all through high school) She also watched her parents, both with degrees, go through a lot of financial difficulties, so she believes that going to Med School is the only way she'll be successful.

It's a mess of a situation really, she believes that she can't make it on her own, because all her friends are supported by their parents among many other things. And really she's right. She doesn't have the money to just walk out, and she can't work enough to get that money. "Working two jobs" and all is great, but the problem is that if her Mom even catches the idea that she's planning something, it's over. Her Mom just continually threatens her with not paying for college, kicking her out of the house, etc. She's trapped by a very smart plot. Whether planned or just happening.

I hope I'm not offending you guys. This is the discussion I was looking for. Just trying to push the mind and heart and find out what and where the Lord needs me to be. You're all lifesavers!

 

[Warrior Poet]

At a certain point a child becomes an adult, and at that point the parents need to acknowledge that.

Agreed but.......
Not bashing your girl here...but from this and other threads....your girl isnt an adult...you can say well at 18 she is .....there is more to being an adult then age....again not bashing just calling it how I see it.

Warrior Poet

 

[JillLars]

John, I think the point people are trying to get across is that your girlfriend needs to work things out with her mother on her own. This is not something that you will be able to solve by supporting her financially, or in any other way. If you attempt to solve it, and she leaves things unresolved with her mother, this problem will hang over both of your heads for a lifetime. Whether her mother is wrong or right, your girlfriend needs to work things out with her before moving on in her life, if that means moving out on her own and taking out loans and working through school, she should do it, she has a choice, and it is hers alone to make. I think its a bad idea to try to step in and solve things, eventually it will backfire, and your girlfriend may end up blaming you for her unresolved problems. Tell her to work things out, she needs to learn to be independent before the two of you can have a healthy relationship.

 

[SirKenin]

I hope I'm not offending you guys. This is the discussion I was looking for. Just trying to push the mind and heart and find out what and where the Lord needs me to be. You're all lifesavers!

You certainly aren't offending me I love a really good debate, as long as it remains factual. No worries from this camp. I'm enjoying the conversation.

 

[katelyn]

I don't think that her "honoring" her mother means that she has to just blindly do what her mother wants her to. However, if you help her move out, one or both of them may resent you for that in the long run. Give her comfort and support if her mom gives her a hard time, maybe even be willing to help in small ways, but in reality your girlfriend needs to work out what the appropriate response to her mother should be and do whatever it is she needs to do in an honoring way - which means not running from the problem.

 

[DaveKerwin]

whatever you do, save sex for the marriage day, and don't sell out.