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Another Gospel ????

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HomeBound

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The Gospel of the twelve...

Please read the Introduction at the following link. If you want to stop there, fine. If what you read interests you, click "begin here" at the bottom.
That is what I would like to discuss in this thread.

I am in no way saying that we are reading a corrupt Gospel. This link has just caught my curiosity, and don't want to tackle it on my own.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_intro.htm
 

dcyates

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HomeBound said:
The Gospel of the twelve...

Please read the Introduction at the following link. If you want to stop there, fine. If what you read interests you, click "begin here" at the bottom.
That is what I would like to discuss in this thread.

I am in no way saying that we are reading a corrupt Gospel. This link has just caught my curiosity, and don't want to tackle it on my own.

Hmmm. Interesting. I'll admit right off that I haven't read all the way through this, but even after having read the first couple of paragraphs I have to say I have some serious doubts as to its authenticity. First, why would the Essenes have kept any Christian manuscripts at all, much less want to preserve them? They were a Jewish community that saw themselves as constituting the 'True Israel'. Why would they wish to preserve the writings of what amounted to a rival sect?

Second, there is really no evidence--either internal or external--to suggest that all four of the evangelists derived their Gospels from a single source. While there are some striking similarities between the Synoptic Gospels which therefore might point to a shared reliance upon both a hypothetical Gospel (called 'Q' by NT scholars) and Mark's Gospel on the part of Matthew and Luke (although it should be pointed out there exists no unanimity on all this), there also exists some rather unique material within them. Not to mention the fact that John's Gospel is totally different in both content and tone from that of the Synoptics.

I could go on here for quite awhile, but I'll shut up now and see what others have to say about all this.

Shalom.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Quote:

17. We believe in One God: the Infinite, the Secret Fount, the Eternal Parent: Of Whom are all things invisible and visible. The ALL in all, through all around all. The holy Twain, in whom all things consist; Who hath been, Who is, Who shall be.
18. We believe in one Lord our Lady, the perfect holy Christ: God of God, Light of light begotten. Our Lord, the Father, Spouse and Son. Our Lady, the Mother, Bride and Daughter. Three Modes in one Essence undivided: One Biune Trinity. That God may be manifest as the Father, Spouse and Son of every soul: and that every soul may be perfected as the Mother, Bride and Daughter of God


Biune Trinity?
 
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HomeBound

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didaskalos said:
Quote:

17. We believe in One God: the Infinite, the Secret Fount, the Eternal Parent: Of Whom are all things invisible and visible. The ALL in all, through all around all. The holy Twain, in whom all things consist; Who hath been, Who is, Who shall be.
18. We believe in one Lord our Lady, the perfect holy Christ: God of God, Light of light begotten. Our Lord, the Father, Spouse and Son. Our Lady, the Mother, Bride and Daughter. Three Modes in one Essence undivided: One Biune Trinity. That God may be manifest as the Father, Spouse and Son of every soul: and that every soul may be perfected as the Mother, Bride and Daughter of God

I kinda like it. It makes me feel like a tight knit family.

Did you jump to the end? or did you actually read it?
 
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johnd

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Beware also the warning in:

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Compare all things unknown to that which is known (1 Thess 5:21, 1 Jn 4:1, Ac 17:11, 2Ti 3:16-17, 2 Ti 2:15, 2 Pe 1:20-21)
 
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HomeBound

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That's funny. This text says pretty much the same thing.


26. And if any man take from, or add, to the words of this Gospel, or hide, as under a bushel, the light thereof, which is given by the Spirit through us, the twelve witnesses chosen of God, for the enlightenment of the world unto salvation: Let him be Anathema Maranatha, until the coming of Christ Jesu-Maria, our Saviour, with all the Holy Saints.
 
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dcyates

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didaskalos said:
Quote:

17. We believe in One God: the Infinite, the Secret Fount, the Eternal Parent: Of Whom are all things invisible and visible. The ALL in all, through all around all. The holy Twain, in whom all things consist; Who hath been, Who is, Who shall be.
18. We believe in one Lord our Lady, the perfect holy Christ: God of God, Light of light begotten. Our Lord, the Father, Spouse and Son. Our Lady, the Mother, Bride and Daughter. Three Modes in one Essence undivided: One Biune Trinity. That God may be manifest as the Father, Spouse and Son of every soul: and that every soul may be perfected as the Mother, Bride and Daughter of God


Biune Trinity?

Excuse me, but 'Biune Trinity'?!? This is essentially saying that God is a 'two-in-one three-in-one'. Does that make any sense to you? Am I the only one who sees an internal conflict with this?
 
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HomeBound

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dcyates said:
Excuse me, but 'Biune Trinity'?!? This is essentially saying that God is a 'two-in-one three-in-one'. Does that make any sense to you? Am I the only one who sees an internal conflict with this?

Don't get muslim on me.

Just kidding, that's a good question.
 
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HomeBound

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First of all, vegetarians are healthier than meat-eaters. Do a search and you'll find that fact anywhere. If that is the case then aren't all God's commandments for the good of his people? Why wouldn't God cammand people to not eat meat if it is healthier?​

Second, below is a true story of such things that are constantly happening to God's creatures. Is this what we call "dominion"?


Downed Cow

m2-cow.jpg

The true story of one anonymous animal born into the meat industryThe truck carrying this cow was unloaded at Walton Stockyards in Kentucky one September morning. After the other animals were removed from the truck, she was left behind, unable to move. The stockyard workers used the customary electric prods in her ear to try to get her out of the truck, then beat and kicked her in the face, ribs, and back, but still she didn’t move. They tied a rope around her neck, tied the other end to a post in the ground, and drove the truck away. The cow was dragged along the floor of the truck and fell to the ground, landing with both hind legs and her pelvis broken. She remained like that until 7:30 that evening.

For the first three hours, she lay in the hot sun crying out. Periodically, when she urinated or defecated, she used her front legs to drag herself along the gravel roadway to a clean spot. She also tried to crawl to a shaded area but couldn’t move far enough. Altogether, she managed to crawl a painful 13 to14 yards. The stockyard employees wouldn’t allow her any drinking water; the only water she received was given to her by Jessie Pierce, a local animal rights activist, who had been contacted by a woman who witnessed the incident. Jessie arrived at noon. After receiving no cooperation from stockyard workers, she called the Kenton County police. A police officer arrived but was instructed by his superiors to do nothing; he left at 1 p.m. The stockyard operator informed Jessie that he had permission from the insurance company to kill the cow but wouldn’t do it until Jessie left. Although doubtful that he would keep his word, Jessie left at 3 p.m. She returned at 4:30 p.m. and found the stockyard deserted. Three dogs were attacking the cow, who was still alive. She had suffered a number of bite wounds, and her drinking water had been removed. Jessie contacted the state police. Four officers arrived at 5:30 p.m. State trooper Jan Wuchner wanted to shoot the cow but was told that a veterinarian should kill her. The two veterinarians at the facility would not euthanize her, claiming that in order to preserve the value of the meat, she could not be destroyed. The butcher eventually arrived at 7:30 p.m. and shot the cow. Her body was purchased for $307.50.

When the stockyard operator was questioned by a reporter from The Kentucky Post, he stated, “We didn’t do a damned thing to it,” and referred to the attention given the cow by humane workers and police as “bullcrap.” He laughed throughout the interview, saying that he found nothing wrong with the way the cow was treated.

This is not an isolated case; in fact, it’s so common that animals in this condition are known in the meat industry as ”downers,” and no effort is made by industry insiders or the U.S. Department of Agriculture to see that they are treated more humanely. It is standard practice for stockyard workers to find “downed” animals, tie them to the back of a pickup truck, and drag them to an area where they are piled on top of each other to await the butcher. The handling of “downer” animals has proved that the meat industry cannot monitor itself. It’s up to the public to demand change and to refuse to purchase the products of this miserable industry.
 
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Tenorvoice

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HomeBound said:
The Gospel of the twelve...

Please read the Introduction at the following link. If you want to stop there, fine. If what you read interests you, click "begin here" at the bottom.
That is what I would like to discuss in this thread.

I am in no way saying that we are reading a corrupt Gospel. This link has just caught my curiosity, and don't want to tackle it on my own.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_intro.htm

To say that there is a "lost Gospel" or "another Gospel" is the same thin g as saying that the Bible is not complete, which it is!!

There are NO "other" scriptures anywhere that were inspired by God. The Bible IS the Word of God and it IS complete!!
 
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HomeBound

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Jeez, you make my sound like an heretic for being curious.

And for your info, there are scriptures in addition to the cannonized Bible that merely weren't included because of literary value.

I vowed to myself a long time ago that I wasn't going to be closed minded about my spirituallity. I don't think anyone should, mainly because all the mysteries of God couldn't possibly be totally summed up in a single book containing 66 books translated by "man" interpreted by "man". To believe it could, would be ignorant in a way.

PS. there's a lot more in this world inspired by God than you think. Just look around, God is in everything.
 
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Tenorvoice

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Please read this post that I got from www.CARM.org

Are these lost books of the Bible?
There is much talk these days about lost books of the Bible. From cults to the New Age, people make all sorts of claims about how the Bible is missing books, books that help justify what they hope to believe. Sometimes people claim that the Bible was edited to take out reincarnation, or the teaching of higher planes of existence, or different gods, or ancestor worship, or "at-one-ment" with nature.
The "lost books" were never lost. They were known by the Jews in Old Testament times and the Christians of the New Testament times and were never considered scripture. They weren't lost nor were they removed. They were never in the Bible in the first place.
The additional books were not included in the Bible for several reasons. They lacked apostolic or prophetic authorship, they did not claim to
be the Word of God; they contain unbiblical concepts such as prayer for the dead in 2 Macc. 12:45-46; or have some serious historical inaccuracies.
Nevertheless, the Roman Catholic church has added certain books to the canon of scripture. In 1546, largely due in response to the Reformation, the Roman Catholic church authorized several more books as scripture known as the apocrypha. The word apocrypha means hidden. It is used in a general sense to describe a list of books written by Jews between 300 and 100 B.C. More specifically, it is used of the 7 additional books accepted by the Catholic church as being inspired. The entire list of books of the apocrypha are: 1 and 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, the Rest of Esther, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach, (also titled Ecclesiasticus), Baruch, The Letter of Jeremiah, Song of the Three Young Men, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, The Additions to Daniel, The Prayer of Manasseh, and 1 and 2 Maccabees. The books accepted as inspired and included in the Catholic Bible are Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees Wisdom of Solomon Sirach (also known as Ecclesiasticus), and Baruch
The
Pseudepigraphal books are "false writings." They are a collection of early Jewish and "Christian" writings composed between 200 BC and AD 200. However, they too were known and were never considered scripture.
The deuterocanonical (apocrypha) books are those books that were included in the Greek Septuagint (LXX) but not included in the Hebrew Bible. The recognized deuterocanonical books are "Tobit, Judith, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus (also called Sirach or Ben Sira), Baruch (including the Letter of Jeremiah), 1 and 2 Maccabees, and additions to the books of Esther and Daniel. The canon of the Greek Orthodox community also includes 1 Esdras, the Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and 3 Maccabees, with 4 Maccabees as an appendix."1


______________
1. Achtemeier, Paul J., Th.D., Harper’s Bible Dictionary, (San Francisco: Harper and Row, Publishers, Inc.) 1985.
 
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Logicalthinker

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HomeBound said:
The Gospel of the twelve...

Please read the Introduction at the following link. If you want to stop there, fine. If what you read interests you, click "begin here" at the bottom.
That is what I would like to discuss in this thread.

I am in no way saying that we are reading a corrupt Gospel. This link has just caught my curiosity, and don't want to tackle it on my own.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_intro.htm

Well I didn't read through the whole thing either but I to do not see it flowing the same way as the bible. The bible being written by God through people does flow like one author. Than I don't know, but fish is flesh meat and Jesus clearly promoted eating fish.
 
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Logicalthinker

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johnd said:
Beware also the warning in:

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Compare all things unknown to that which is known (1 Thess 5:21, 1 Jn 4:1, Ac 17:11, 2Ti 3:16-17, 2 Ti 2:15, 2 Pe 1:20-21)
This is a good point to point out for sure. Satan is a master chess player and places his pieces knowing we'll find them and confuse the issue.

Another thing is we are to love and bekind to animals. Doesn't mean we don't eat them God clearly shows us that animals eat animals. But they are our food source and also pleasurable creations so we should treat them all with respect. Plus the God of the Old Testiment is the same God of the New Testiment and during passover He said sacrifice a lamb and smear the blood on the door

exodus 12:7-97 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. exodus 12:7-98 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
 
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Logicalthinker

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HomeBound said:
First of all, vegetarians are healthier than meat-eaters. Do a search and you'll find that fact anywhere. If that is the case then aren't all God's commandments for the good of his people? Why wouldn't God cammand people to not eat meat if it is healthier?​





Second, below is a true story of such things that are constantly happening to God's creatures. Is this what we call "dominion"?


Downed Cow

The true story of one anonymous animal born into the meat industryThe truck carrying this cow was unloaded at Walton Stockyards in Kentucky one September morning. After the other animals were removed from the truck, she was left behind, unable to move. The stockyard workers used the customary electric prods in her ear to try to get her out of the truck, then beat and kicked her in the face, ribs, and back, but still she didn’t move. They tied a rope around her neck, tied the other end to a post in the ground, and drove the truck away. The cow was dragged along the floor of the truck and fell to the ground, landing with both hind legs and her pelvis broken. She remained like that until 7:30 that evening.

For the first three hours, she lay in the hot sun crying out. Periodically, when she urinated or defecated, she used her front legs to drag herself along the gravel roadway to a clean spot. She also tried to crawl to a shaded area but couldn’t move far enough. Altogether, she managed to crawl a painful 13 to14 yards. The stockyard employees wouldn’t allow her any drinking water; the only water she received was given to her by Jessie Pierce, a local animal rights activist, who had been contacted by a woman who witnessed the incident. Jessie arrived at noon. After receiving no cooperation from stockyard workers, she called the Kenton County police. A police officer arrived but was instructed by his superiors to do nothing; he left at 1 p.m. The stockyard operator informed Jessie that he had permission from the insurance company to kill the cow but wouldn’t do it until Jessie left. Although doubtful that he would keep his word, Jessie left at 3 p.m. She returned at 4:30 p.m. and found the stockyard deserted. Three dogs were attacking the cow, who was still alive. She had suffered a number of bite wounds, and her drinking water had been removed. Jessie contacted the state police. Four officers arrived at 5:30 p.m. State trooper Jan Wuchner wanted to shoot the cow but was told that a veterinarian should kill her. The two veterinarians at the facility would not euthanize her, claiming that in order to preserve the value of the meat, she could not be destroyed. The butcher eventually arrived at 7:30 p.m. and shot the cow. Her body was purchased for $307.50.

When the stockyard operator was questioned by a reporter from The Kentucky Post, he stated, “We didn’t do a damned thing to it,” and referred to the attention given the cow by humane workers and police as “bullcrap.” He laughed throughout the interview, saying that he found nothing wrong with the way the cow was treated.

This is not an isolated case; in fact, it’s so common that animals in this condition are known in the meat industry as ”downers,” and no effort is made by industry insiders or the U.S. Department of Agriculture to see that they are treated more humanely. It is standard practice for stockyard workers to find “downed” animals, tie them to the back of a pickup truck, and drag them to an area where they are piled on top of each other to await the butcher. The handling of “downer” animals has proved that the meat industry cannot monitor itself. It’s up to the public to demand change and to refuse to purchase the products of this miserable industry.
This is a sad and horrible story, The same kind of treatment the chickens got on a certain video tape. I can't remember what restaurant it was so i won't say that but the employees would stomp on the chickens to kill them. Just horrible. We should protect our food source ant treat these animals well. They sustain us.
 
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