Another Flood Question

[Jimmy D]

No, here’s your Neanderthal, nothing ape like about them.

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Nothing ape like about any of our ancestors once you remove the evolutionary PR and pre-conceived silly notions of ape like ancestors from the artists minds.

Just admit you were wrong. Everyone can see you were mistaken in your assertion, it's not that important, it has no bearing on the subject of the thread.

You claim that cro magnon were portrayed as ape like. They aren't.

 

[Jimmy D]

I still haven't seen any evidence whatsoever for a global flood in this thread. Nothing.

 

[joshua 1 9]

(This is a rhetorical "what", I don't require an explanation.)

Because we have had this conversation many many times. People keep insisting that the Bible is a metaphor (NOT literal) and I keep insisting that the Bible is a Paradigm (literal). Everything pretty much all comes down to that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I still haven't seen any evidence whatsoever for a global flood in this thread. Nothing.

Science calls it the snowball earth. There actually has been six major extinctions where a remnant repopulated the earth as we read about in the story of Noah. That is why I say the story is a Paradigm. The story deals with Noah's world but we know that the entire world has seen many extinction events.

"The snowball-Earth episodes occurred before the sudden radiation of multicellular bioforms, known as the Cambrian explosion. The most recent snowball episode may have triggered the evolution of multicellularity. Another, much earlier and longer snowball episode, the Huronian glaciation, which occurred 2400 to 2100 Mya, may have been triggered by the first appearance of oxygen in the atmosphere, the "Great Oxygenation Event"." wiki

We read about this in Genesis chapter one verse two: "The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters."

Also Jeremiah 4:23 "I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro"

 

[Tom 1]

There are accounts of a devastating flood in the ancient world in many cultures, right across the globe, from the Middle East to China, to native American cultures. The closest in content to the Biblical account comes from Sumeria. Mircea Eliade provides some further detail in his tome ´a history of religious ideas´. I think Eliade was an atheist, or a deist maybe. He concludes there was probably either a worldwide flood or a series of localised but catastrophic floods. So, there are strong indications from outside of the Bible that there was either a global flood or a number of regional floods that were drastic enough to be recorded as apocalyptic events.

 

[Jimmy D]

Because we have had this conversation many many times. People keep insisting that the Bible is a metaphor (NOT literal) and I keep insisting that the Bible is a Paradigm (literal). Everything pretty much all comes down to that.

Exactly, I know what you believe.

 

[Larniavc]

Science calls it the snowball earth. There actually has been six major extinctions where a remnant repopulated the earth as we read about in the story of Noah. That is why I say the story is a Paradigm. The story deals with Noah's world but we know that the entire world has seen many extinction events.

"The snowball-Earth episodes occurred before the sudden radiation of multicellular bioforms, known as the Cambrian explosion. The most recent snowball episode may have triggered the evolution of multicellularity. Another, much earlier and longer snowball episode, the Huronian glaciation, which occurred 2400 to 2100 Mya, may have been triggered by the first appearance of oxygen in the atmosphere, the "Great Oxygenation Event"." wiki

We read about this in Genesis chapter one verse two: "The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters."

Also Jeremiah 4:23 "I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro"

This is what I don’t get. You miss where the dates and details of snowball Earth don’t match the dates and details of the story of Noah.

 

[Jimmy D]

There are accounts of a devastating flood in the ancient world in many cultures, right across the globe, from the Middle East to China, to native American cultures. The closest in content to the Biblical account comes from Sumeria. Mircea Eliade provides some further detail in his tome ´a history of religious ideas´. I think Eliade was an atheist, or a deist maybe. He concludes there was probably either a worldwide flood or a series of localised but catastrophic floods. So, there are strong indications from outside of the Bible that there was either a global flood or a number of regional floods that were drastic enough to be recorded as apocalyptic events.

Yep, floods are common - and in some cases disasterous. We can all agree on that.

Natural global floods however are a work of fiction, we can say that with certainty. Magical global floods though, anything's possible I suppose.

 

[Jimmy D]

This is what I don’t get. You miss where the dates and details of snowball Earth don’t match the dates and details of the story of Noah.

It's a "shadow" or "type". Don't ignore the paradigm! (Or something).

 

[Tom 1]

Yes. The best evidence, relating to the biblical account, is for a regional flood affecting what people in the ANE might have thought of as the world, i.e. originating in the Med and covering an area from the Black sea down though modern Turkey, Iraq and parts of Iran, Syria and Kuwait OR that a 3 mile wide comet struck the earth near Madagascar, leading to a genuinely worldwide catastrophic event, involving the displacement of a lot of water (but not a global flood). Who knows? I agree with Bruce K Waltke's conclusion that the initial content of Genesis is an artistic impression of events the narrator didn't fully understand, the point of which is to get across theological rather than scientific insights.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's not science.

That is correct.

It is a series of miracles over a period of six days.

It's fake information trying to imitate science.

No.

Hence the prefix 'pseudo', meaning it ain't what it purports to be.

You mean it ain't what you purport it to be.

What do you see in Genesis 1 that makes you think it is trying to imitate science?

 

[AV1611VET]

It's something that purports to be science,

Show me, please; chapter and verse.

...but is not.

Correct.

Creationism isn't science.

Hence the prefix 'pseudo', meaning it ain't science.

You'll have to convince me it is science before you can convince me it is pseudoscience.

 

[Aman777]

Yes. The best evidence, relating to the biblical account, is for a regional flood affecting what people in the ANE might have thought of as the world, i.e. originating in the Med and covering an area from the Black sea down though modern Turkey, Iraq and parts of Iran, Syria and Kuwait OR that a 3 mile wide comet struck the earth near Madagascar, leading to a genuinely worldwide catastrophic event, involving the displacement of a lot of water (but not a global flood). Who knows? I agree with Bruce K Waltke's conclusion that the initial content of Genesis is an artistic impression of events the narrator didn't fully understand, the point of which is to get across theological rather than scientific insights.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The word "world" that then was is referring to Adam's Universe which perished, or was totally destroyed in the flood. The heavens and earth which are now have NEVER been destroyed in a flood. Amen?

 

[AV1611VET]

The ICR and AiG like to promote creationism as being scientific (even though it's not).

Well bully for ICR and AiG.

I don't promote creationism as being scientific.

 

[AV1611VET]

I agree with Bruce K Waltke's conclusion that the initial content of Genesis is an artistic impression of events the narrator didn't fully understand,

Does this Bruce K Waltke also believe they didn't fully understand why they lived on the Ark for over a year?

 

[AV1611VET]

Bruce K Waltke's

Ah.

Dallas Theological Cemetery.

That explains it.

 

[Larniavc]

It's a "shadow" or "type". Don't ignore the paradigm! (Or something).

Gosh darnit, I forgot about the darn paradigms.

Darn it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Yes, yes. We only mated with them but don’t share ancestory, just have their genes in us. Yet having shared genes is why you claim ape and man came from the same common ancestor.

But there goes ignoring scientific definitions again.

Definition of SUBSPECIES

“a category in biological classification that ranks immediately below a species and designates a population of a particular geographic region genetically distinguishable from other such populations of the same species and capable of interbreeding successfully with them where its range overlaps theirs”

Haven’t we discussed this ignoring your own scientific definitions before?

Why Am I Neanderthal?

You are all just confused. They were simply different races of humans, that looked different, like a poodle looks different from a Husky. But since evolutionists refuse to apply observations of how we observe life to propagate and variation to enter the species to the past, they get confused. I understand. I would be confused too if I ignored all the observational evidence and refused to apply it to the past. I certainly don’t believe our ancestors looked like we do, any more than I think a poodle looks like a wolf.

Those races of humans just went extinct, as 99% of life on this planet has went extinct at one time or another.

Irrelevant to our conversation, cro magnons and Neanderthals are not the same thing (and only a portion of the human population has any Neanderthal DNA). Your claim was that CRO MAGNONS were portrayed with exaggerated hair, etc. Defend or discard that claim, or like I said before, I will not continue this discussion with you.

 

[joshua 1 9]

This is what I don’t get. You miss where the dates and details of snowball Earth don’t match the dates and details of the story of Noah.

Contraire, there is an exact match because a paradigm is literal, precise and exact. A metaphor is not literal and not exact. People do not understand the difference. For example if you want exact precise science go to NASA because they are out there in the real world where things do not work if you do not get it right. The last thing you want is a challenger disaster because a techie somewhere screwed up the work he did on a seal. Then you have all the school children in American watching their science heroes die on live TV.

In the Bible we read the story of the three wise men. They knew when and where Jesus would be born. They were there to greet Him with gifts. A paradigm is as exact as an atomic clock and as precise as a GPS. That is the difference between a paradigm and a metaphor because a metaphor is the same as sloppy science that may or may not work when you try to apply it to the real world.

 

[joshua 1 9]

It's a "shadow" or "type". Don't ignore the paradigm! (Or something).

Yes theology uses shadow and type, but science uses the word Paradigm. I recently read Jonathan Cahn's book: "The Paradigm" so that helps me to explain what a paradigm is. Also we have what we call paradigm shifts in science. I first learned about them from my first son. The one that taught me how to use computers when he was in kindergarten. My first son is a electronic engineer and my second son is a computer engineer. So I get them to explain stuff to me all the time.