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Another belief I struggle with within the SDA

maco

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I recently questioned the teaching on baptism into the SDA.

I believe that when one is baptized that person is baptized into the body of Christ, not the SDA church.

I believe that a person should be baptized into Christ and then offered to become a member of the SDA if the choose to do so. I ran into some friction with viewing my thoughts. They said all the people who were baptized in the NT were joining the local church but when I quoted from Acts 8:37-39 how Philip baptized the eunuch and then was taken off by the HS. The eunuch wasn't signed up for membership to any local church he just went away rejoicing as a member of Christ's church.

Acts 8:37-39 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may.'' And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.'' So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Of course they didn't see it my way.

I struggle with this...:scratch:

What are your thoughts?

Many blessings,
John
 
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maco

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Here are a few more thoughts.

The Bible teaches us very clearly that we are baptized into Christ but the church disagrees. The church teaches us that we are baptized into the church. They even go one step further and say we are baptized into the SDA, the remnent church.

Don't get me wrong, there is an understanding in the Bible that tells us we become part of the body, the church, through baptisim but that body is Christ's body, His church.

Christ's church is NOT made up of people as much as its made up of a way of thinking. People who have the mind of Christ belong to Him and are part of His body.

There can be many people within a denomination who don't have the mind of Christ. The denomination itself may not have the mind of Christ.

One of the most important qualities in having the mind of Christ is hearing, listening and obeying the Father. I believe this is what the NT church is built on.


Matthew 16:15-18 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" And Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Peter was hearing the revelation from the Father who was in heaven regarding His Son and Peter believed. It's this priciple that God has built His NT church on. Its this principle that the gates of hell will not prevail.

Now, a gate is something that keeps you in. Hell is the grave. When we listen to the Father and believe and do His will then the gates of the grave will not keep us in and have no power over us.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Matthew 12:48-50 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers! "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."

What are your thoughts?

Many blessings,
John
 
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maco

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Hi John,

If it helps, I believe that when we are baptized, God adds us to his church, not a denomination.

Annie

Hi Annie,

Praise God for your understanding of baptism.

I had a discussion with a couple of elders regarding the belief that when we're baptized we're baptized into the SDA church.

I commented on the fact that the Bible teaches us that we're baptized into Christ, not a denomination. One of the elder's reply was, "Who will baptize them?"

The reason for this whole discussion was because I do a prison Bible study and in this study there were a few imates that desired to be baptized but had no desire of becoming an Adventist. I wanted to have them baptized because they desired to identify with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as they enter into their new life with Christ. It didn't go over too well.

This is the reason for this post. I want to know what other SDA's believe regarding this issue.

I don't understand why most SDA's believe as I do but yet the same teaching goes on...:scratch:

Many blessings,
John
 
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Sophia7

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I definitely think that the Adventist Church requires too much of people before baptism. The New Testament model was certainly not to indoctrinate people into a set of denomination-specific beliefs before they could be baptized.
 
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woobadooba

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I recently questioned the teaching on baptism into the SDA.

I believe that when one is baptized that person is baptized into the body of Christ, not the SDA church.

I believe that a person should be baptized into Christ and then offered to become a member of the SDA if the choose to do so. I ran into some friction with viewing my thoughts. They said all the people who were baptized in the NT were joining the local church but when I quoted from Acts 8:37-39 how Philip baptized the eunuch and then was taken off by the HS. The eunuch wasn't signed up for membership to any local church he just went away rejoicing as a member of Christ's church.

Acts 8:37-39 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may.'' And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.'' So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Of course they didn't see it my way.

I struggle with this...:scratch:

What are your thoughts?

Many blessings,
John

You will find people within our church that will agree with you, and people that won't agree with you. Yet, you will also find people that will agree with both ideas to some degree (I just so happen to be one of these).

The question that one ought to ask is: did the people that were baptized into the church (which is the body of Christ) during the time of the Apostles, not learn anything about Jesus Christ that they had to agree with before they could be baptized into Christ?

Let's look at it...

"Then Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all those afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words he earnestly testified and exhorted, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation. Then those who gladly received his word were baptized. And the same day there were added about three thousand souls. And they were continuing steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine, and in fellowship and in the breaking of the loaves, and in prayers." (Act 2:38-42)

What sense would there have been in Peter telling the people to "repent", and then be baptized, if all they had to do was just simply say, "I believe in Jesus Christ"?

The idea of repenting denotes that one is to change his way of thinking about something. You wouldn't know what to change your thoughts to without someone teaching you about what you ought to think. And the words, "gladly received his word", imply that they received some kind of teaching that they agreed with before being baptized. And the idea that they continued "steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine", suggests that they received some teaching that they had to agree with before being baptised.

So I don't see that there is a problem with expecting people to agree with certain doctrines before baptizing them. It is not unBiblical to expect such a thing, as we can see.
 
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Mankin

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I definitely think that the Adventist Church requires too much of people before baptism. The New Testament model was certainly not to indoctrinate people into a set of denomination-specific beliefs before they could be baptized.

I defintely agree with you. Adventists say that we have to be baptised to be saved, but we make people learn all about our church and accept our doctrines before we let them be baptised. I believe that we are baptised into the Body of Christ not into a certain denomination. All of the doctrines should come secondary to this one truth.
 
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woobadooba

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I defintely agree with you. Adventists say that we have to be baptized to be saved

No, Jesus said this.

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(Joh 3:3)

but we make people learn all about our church and accept our doctrines before we let them be baptised.

Does it really make sense to have them join a church that they don't know much about? Would you make a decision to marry a woman just simply by knowing her name and date of birth?

I believe that we are baptised into the Body of Christ not into a certain denomination. All of the doctrines should come secondary to this one truth.

All of the doctrines should come secondary?

But how can you make a decision to be baptized if you don't really know what you are being baptized into?

Doctrines/teachings inform you of what you ought to believe about Jesus Christ.

Without them you really can't know Him.
 
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maco

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I believe the first thing we need to understand in order to be baptized is the fact that we are sinners and we need to died to the old man. When a person understands this he, through baptisim, appeals to God to cleans his conscience.

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ...

Once he is baptized he enters into a new spiritual journey, a new life with Christ, growing and maturing in the love and truth of salvation.
 
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janetjewel2000

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I believe the first thing we need to understand in order to be baptized is the fact that we are sinners and we need to died to the old man. When a person understands this he, through baptisim, appeals to God to cleans his conscience.

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ...

Once he is baptized he enters into a new spiritual journey, a new life with Christ, growing and maturing in the love and truth of salvation.

This is correct....amen!

We are not baptised into a man made orgainization, we are baptised into Christ, HIS BODY.

To make it otherwise is an idol.

Many denominations do this, it is not just a 7th day adventist thing. Catholicism is guilty of the same thing.

It should not matter what a "denomination" would teach, truth, pure truth comes from the holy spirit, anyway.

Just realise that it is Jesus that saves, not a group of people, no matter how sincere they are...and, you will do well....:thumbsup:

In time, God will correct the error.

in christian love,

janet
 
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woobadooba

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It should not matter what a "denomination" would teach, truth, pure truth comes from the holy spirit, anyway.

If this is true, then what sense would there have been in Peter telling the people to repent before they could be baptized into the body of Christ?

The idea of repenting suggests that we have to change our way of thinking about something.

Oh, but then one might say that Peter was merely referring to sin when he had said, "repent".

Well, what is sin, but a lie?

Some people would have you to believe that truth is merely a matter of taste, that no one can really know what it is for sure. Thus these people take God's Holy Word and twist it in every way possible to come up with ideas that appeal to their emotions.

Should we want to join such a group of people? Should we consider them brothers and sisters in Christ if they are espousing views that make the gospel look like a farce?

Belief does matter a great deal; and we better be sure we have the right doctrine/teaching before agreeing to become one with it through baptism.
 
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woobadooba

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I believe the first thing we need to understand in order to be baptized is the fact that we are sinners and we need to died to the old man. When a person understands this he, through baptism, appeals to God to cleans his conscience.

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ...

Once he is baptized he enters into a new spiritual journey, a new life with Christ, growing and maturing in the love and truth of salvation.

Yes, we need to understand that we are sinners; but what is sin? Where did it come from? What is it the result of? How does it really effect my life? What does God think about it? Why is it bad? What is good? Why can't I just live my life the way I want to? If God is loving surely he will save me anyway, right? How can I be sure Jesus died for my sins? What if He was just like everyone else? How can I be sure He really rose again? How can I trust the Bible to tell me what I am, that I am a sinner in need of a savior? There are many different religions, why should I trust this one, and thus be baptized into it? etc...etc...

Now do you see my point?

The idea of just simply confessing that we are a sinner in need of a savior is much broader than most people tend to think.

The issues that I have brought out in my questions ought to be dealt with before a person can really make a true confession of faith, and thus be baptized into the body of Christ.

Things are not like they were during the time of the Apostles. Now we have all kinds of scripture twisting going on.

I think it would be wise to learn what the truth is before taking someone's word for it. A lot of people are talking about Jesus these days; but not everyone really knows Him well enough to talk about Him in the right way.

If we are going to be baptized into the body of Christ, then we really ought to find out if the body that we are being baptized into is really of Christ. This involves the study of doctrine.
 
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janetjewel2000

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Quote:
Originally Posted by janetjewel2000
It should not matter what a "denomination" would teach, truth, pure truth comes from the holy spirit, anyway.

If this is true, then what sense would there have been in Peter telling the people to repent before they could be baptized into the body of Christ?

The idea of repenting suggests that we have to change our way of thinking about something.

Oh, but then one might say that Peter was merely referring to sin when he had said, "repent".

Well, what is sin, but a lie?


I am not sure I am understanding your intent in a right way?

We do not repent in order to enter a man made organization. We repent in order to enter into a saving relationship with our Lord and master. Sin is the transgression of the law. The law is faith. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.:thumbsup:


Some people would have you to believe that truth is merely a matter of taste, that no one can really know what it is for sure. Thus these people take God's Holy Word and twist it in every way possible to come up with ideas that appeal to their emotions.

There is one truth, one baptism, one faith.

The problem today is that people listen to interpretations of men on what true faith is, instead of looking to God the giver of true light and teaching.


Should we want to join such a group of people? Should we consider them brothers and sisters in Christ if they are espousing views that make the gospel look like a farce?

I wouldn't. I would rather make company with people whom understand the gospel. Again, the problem arises when people look to men and the teachings of men of what the gospel is, and this is why we have a denomination for just about every bible verse....:eek:



Belief does matter a great deal; and we better be sure we have the right doctrine/teaching before agreeing to become one with it through baptism.


All one needs to understand before being baptised is that Jesus died for their sins. Once the holy spirit enters a person, that spirit leads him/her into all truth, over time. You have it backwards, it appears.

God is the giver of truth, not doctrines of men.

in christian love,

janet
 
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janetjewel2000

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If we are going to be baptized into the body of Christ, then we really ought to find out if the body that we are being baptized into is really of Christ. This involves the study of doctrine.

You are confusing a man made denomination with the body of Christ. The true body of Christ is not a man made organization, and, it is not made with human hands..but, all christians in every denomination that truly understand the need for a Savior are brought into it...it is not a denomination that can be seen here on this earth, it is HIS BODY< made without mortal hands.

Too many today have this confusion of looking for His body in the wrong place.

in christian love,

janet
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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woob wrote:
Things are not like they were during the time of the Apostles. Now we have all kinds of scripture twisting going on.

You really need to read up on early church history. Of course they did not have the New Testament scriptures as we know them but they had lots of scriptures and lots of interpretations from Ebionites, Gnostic, Maconian's, Docists. At least in modern Christianity we have some basic beliefs in common.
 
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woobadooba

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woob wrote:


You really need to read up on early church history. Of course they did not have the New Testament scriptures as we know them but they had lots of scriptures and lots of interpretations from Ebionites, Gnostic, Maconian's, Docists. At least in modern Christianity we have some basic beliefs in common.

I got your point, and agree; but what I was basically referring to is post-modernistic thinking, which has impacted the way people in the church approach scripture in an attempt to ascertain its intended meaning. I see this quite often, not only in here, but especially in GT.
 
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woobadooba

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janetjewel2000 said:
We do not repent in order to enter a man made organization.

What makes you think it is man-made? If the teachings of such an organization reflect the truth as it is in Jesus Christ, can one really designate such a movement as being man-made?

We repent in order to enter into a saving relationship with our Lord and master. Sin is the transgression of the law. The law is faith. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.:thumbsup:

Did I disagree with this in anything that I had said?

There is one truth, one baptism, one faith.

But how do you know what that "one truth, one baptism, one faith" is without receiving doctrine? And how do you know the doctrine to be that which properly represents that "one truth, one baptism, one faith" without having a means by which to test it?

Of course, the methodology of testing such things is a doctrine in and of itself. If one does not adhere to such 'doctrine' for testing the validity of doctrines, one couldn't really know that that "one truth, one baptism, one faith", is really the correct 'one';)

Would it then be wise to make the decision to blindly unite oneself with teachings that one does not really know are true?

In other words, could it be possible that one might think he is being baptized into the body of Christ, while actually being grafted into a web of deceit that will put him on a path that leads to damnation?

Deep stuff, eh?

How often do we think about such things?

The problem today is that people listen to interpretations of men on what true faith is, instead of looking to God the giver of true light and teaching.

Does this then mean that all men are wrong who speak on behalf of God?

Don't you believe that God is capable of giving men wisdom to understand His Holy Word?

Perhaps the problem isn't so much that people are listening to interpretations of men, as it is that people just aren't listening to the right men whom God has appointed as teachers, to educate His people on matters of truth...

All one needs to understand before being baptized is that Jesus died for their sins.

Should one not understand what it means to be baptized before being baptized? Should one not come to understand what sin is, before confessing that Jesus died for his sins? And what does confession mean anyway? And why did Jesus have to die? Why can't we just be accepted for what we are? What is faith? Why am I here? Where did I come from? Who made me? Why is my life such a mess?

Don't you think questions like these ought to be addressed before expecting someone to give his life to Christ?

Of course, there are other questions; but I am sure you get the point.

Once the holy spirit enters a person, that spirit leads him/her into all truth, over time. You have it backwards, it appears.

You don't think one ought to know 'some' truth prior to this?

Do I really have it backwards, or are you assuming things about me without asking enough questions?

God is the giver of truth, not doctrines of men.

Did I ever say something to the contrary?
 
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janetjewel2000

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Hi,

But how do you know what that "one truth, one baptism, one faith" is without receiving doctrine? And how do you know the doctrine to be that which properly represents that "one truth, one baptism, one faith" without having a means by which to test it?


I was referring to what needed to be understood by a person, before baptism. All one needs to know and understand is the basic and simple gospel message, that Jesus Christ died for you, and through His sacrifice you have access to His throne of grace. I was in disagreement with the idea that someone needs to be fed alot of doctrine, outside of that basic and simple gospel message in order to undergo water baptism. The accounts in God's word does not show that a person needs to be indoctrinated in alot of areas outside of just hearing the simple and basic gospel message.

Of course, the methodology of testing such things is a doctrine in and of itself. If one does not adhere to such 'doctrine' for testing the validity of doctrines, one couldn't really know that that "one truth, one baptism, one faith", is really the correct 'one';)

Yes, if you are simply referring to the basic and simple gospel message...as I see it. It seems to me that some denominations try to indoctrinate a person with their "doctrine" so as to see if the person can accept it, as THE truth, before they allow them to undergo baptism, or etc.

Would it then be wise to make the decision to blindly unite oneself with teachings that one does not really know are true?

You would have to clarify what "doctrines" you are referring to. All one needs from the beginning is the message to repent and believe. Repent of sin, and beleive the simple and basic gospel message, and then he can be baptised, receive the gift of the holy spirit that guarantees to lead the person THEN into all truth...this is the biblical account...as I see it. In this way you are truly brought into the fellowship of the church that He is building, without hands...(biblically speaking this means without the works of men, or their doctrines/traditions)

In other words, could it be possible that one might think he is being baptized into the body of Christ, while actually being grafted into a web of deceit that will put him on a path that leads to damnation?

Deep stuff, eh?

Not possible, if the person has truly repented of his/her sin,and accepted the simple and basic gospel message. We have promises from God...and, it is a lack of faith to think otherwise, in mho. My whole point is that we must trust God to lead us, and not men. The whole problem today is that seemingly men are trying to do the work of the holy spirit...it is the spirit that quickens, gives increase, not men...according to the word of God. Man's traditions say the opposite..as I see it.





How often do we think about such things?


Quote:
The problem today is that people listen to interpretations of men on what true faith is, instead of looking to God the giver of true light and teaching.


Does this then mean that all men are wrong who speak on behalf of God?

Not at all, if men would do what God commissioned, and leave the rest up to God, as is HIS job, we would never have different denominations to begin with.....:D It is because man is not allowing God to do HIS job that there are many splits, etc.

Don't you believe that God is capable of giving men wisdom to understand His Holy Word?

Certainly..I do. Again, my only disagreement is in the area of what needs to be understood before one can be baptised.

Perhaps the problem isn't so much that people are listening to interpretations of men, as it is that people just aren't listening to the right men whom God has appointed as teachers, to educate His people on matters of truth...

The new covenant speaks on this wise: "they shall not teach every man his neigbor, for they shall all know Me, from the least to the greatest", because in all reailty, as I said, it is God whom is the teacher of things outside of the basic and simple gospel message. God gave the authority to men to proclaim that message, and then He promises to take it from there by giving increase to each individual...today we have the opposite....we have denominations whom want to be God Himself...which is not the right way to go.



Quote:
All one needs to understand before being baptized is that Jesus died for their sins.


Should one not understand what it means to be baptized before being baptized? Should one not come to understand what sin is, before confessing that Jesus died for his sins? And what does confession mean anyway? And why did Jesus have to die? Why can't we just be accepted for what we are? What is faith? Why am I here? Where did I come from? Who made me? Why is my life such a mess?

Yes, the person should be told what sin is...sin is the transgression of the law of God/faith. Then told how his/her sins can be forgiven..and, then that is about all that needs to be understood. A person cannot understand other things anyway, without the holy spirit to lead and guide....their mind is carnal, and cannot hear the law of God, but, once he/she receives the spirit, that spirit quickens and gives increase in all things....over time.


Don't you think questions like these ought to be addressed before expecting someone to give his life to Christ?

Of course, there are other questions; but I am sure you get the point.

Maybe we are saying the same thing?



Quote:
Once the holy spirit enters a person, that spirit leads him/her into all truth, over time. You have it backwards, it appears.


You don't think one ought to know 'some' truth prior to this?

Do I really have it backwards, or are you assuming things about me without asking enough questions?


Quote:


I know from my own experiences that men tend to want to interpret the word of God for those whom they think are still on the outside. That was never the job for men...God commissioned the church to preach the good news of salvation by grace through faith to everyone whom would believe....

explaining grace to a person is required. Explaining why that person needs grace is also something that needs to be told them, so that they can repent. I think maybe we are talking the same thing?...and, yes, maybe I did jump to conclusions.

What is it that you feel needs to be told them before hand exactly?




God is the giver of truth, not doctrines of men.


Did I ever say something to the contrary?

I don't know...when I read through this thread, it appeared that you were saying that we need to indoctrinate people of things outside of the simple and basic gospel message..which is repent and believe in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, to receive salvation..if I have misunderstood you, I apologise.. ;)

The gospel message is simple, and basic.

It is all that needs to be explained.

Are you in agreement with that?

It does not involve anything other than explaining why a person needs to repent, and believe in the shed blood of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.

in christian love,

janet
 
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woobadooba

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janetjewel2000[SIZE=3 said:
I was referring to what needed to be understood by a person, before baptism. All one needs to know and understand is the basic and simple gospel message, that Jesus Christ died for you, and through His sacrifice you have access to His throne of grace. I was in disagreement with the idea that someone needs to be fed alot of doctrine, outside of that basic and simple gospel message in order to undergo water baptism. [/size]

But there is a lot more to the gospel than just saying, "Jesus died for your sins, and if you give your life to Him, you will be saved."

Again, issues as to why one has to be saved, and what it means to be saved, ought to be addressed before one could really make a decision to give his life to Christ.

This involves learning doctrine before making a decision to become a part the movement which makes such claims.

Too many people are brought into the Church as a result of hearing a shallow message which causes them to not take the gospel seriously.

If people would be exposed to proper teaching prior to being baptised, less people would leave the church, and more people would be serious about Jesus Christ that become members of His body.

One ought to know what he is getting himself into before making a decision to become one with it, don't you think so?

The accounts in God's word does not show that a person needs to be indoctrinated in alot of areas outside of just hearing the simple and basic gospel message.

But certain teachings must be inculcated and agreed to before one could be grafted into the body of Christ.

Yes, if you are simply referring to the basic and simple gospel message...as I see it. It seems to me that some denominations try to indoctrinate a person with their "doctrine" so as to see if the person can accept it, as THE truth, before they allow them to undergo baptism, or etc.

But then the question must be asked, "Are the teachings that they are inculcating of God, or do they originate with men?

You would have to clarify what "doctrines" you are referring to. All one needs from the beginning is the message to repent and believe. Repent of sin, and believe the simple and basic gospel message, and then he can be baptized, receive the gift of the holy spirit that guarantees to lead the person THEN into all truth...this is the biblical account...as I see it. In this way you are truly brought into the fellowship of the church that He is building, without hands...(biblically speaking this means without the works of men, or their doctrines/traditions)

There are quite a lot actually...

And what one has to disclose to another who desires to give His life to Christ is dependant on what that person already knows.

It is important to keep in mind that when we see accounts of what seems to be 'easy baptism' in the Bible, that the Bible doesn't really record what these people already knew and were accustomed to practicing prior to being baptised.

For example, if one already knew that the commandments of God must be kept, it wouldn't have been necessary for such information to be disclosed to that person prior to him being baptized.

After all, Peter said, "repent". What is one supposed to repent of if he isn't already aware of what is wrong about his way of thinking? Obviously the people to whom he had spoken these words were already aware of the fact that God has moral laws that must be agreed to by those who make the claim to be His followers.

How could one know what sin is without being aware of such moral absolutes, to even admit that he is a sinner in need of a savior?


So I think it is a matter of what one already knows which determines what he needs to become aware of before being baptized; and this will obviously vary from person to person.

You see, there is no need to tell someone what moral absolutes he ought to follow if he already knows what they are.

Not possible, if the person has truly repented of his/her sin,and accepted the simple and basic gospel message. We have promises from God...and, it is a lack of faith to think otherwise, in mho. My whole point is that we must trust God to lead us, and not men. The whole problem today is that seemingly men are trying to do the work of the holy spirit...it is the spirit that quickens, gives increase, not men...according to the word of God. Man's traditions say the opposite..as I see it.

Not possible?

There are many teachers out there that are using the same 'terms' that appear in the Bible, while defining them in ways that are foreign to what the Bible really says about them.

In other words, a lot of people are saying, "Lord, Lord", but are espousing views that are a reproach to God.

So don't tell me that it isn't possible for people to be baptized under the assumption that they are being grafted into the body of Christ, when in fact they are being drawn into some cult, or movement that inculcates ideas that could put that person on a path to damnation.

You do realize that there are false christs, right?

And just as there are false christs, there are false teachers that know how to use God-words in an ungodly way, so as to lure people into what they believe to be true about Jesus Christ, when in fact such teachings oppose everything that He stands for.

Not at all, if men would do what God commissioned, and leave the rest up to God, as is HIS job, we would never have different denominations to begin with.....:D It is because man is not allowing God to do HIS job that there are many splits, etc

But how do you even know you belong to the right movement?

The new covenant speaks on this wise: "they shall not teach every man his neigbor, for they shall all know Me, from the least to the greatest", because in all reailty, as I said, it is God whom is the teacher of things outside of the basic and simple gospel message. God gave the authority to men to proclaim that message, and then He promises to take it from there by giving increase to each individual...today we have the opposite....we have denominations whom want to be God Himself...which is not the right way to go.

In all honesty, if you claim to be taught of God, why then do you espouse views that are not in harmony with the Bible, such as your views on eternal hellfire, the state of the dead, and the Sabbath?

Such interpretations that you hold to be true on these matters are not of God, but of men.

But maybe you are not like the typical non-denominationalist that believes such things...

If so, why would you want to be a part of a movement that it teaching falsehood?

I know I may sound harsh right now, but let's be real about this. Much of what your movement teaches is based on man-made tradition, and not what God's word actually says.

If you care to address these matters we can see what the Bible really says about them.

We would have to do this in another thread of course.

What is it that you feel needs to be told them before hand exactly?

The truth.
 
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