Anointing-doorposts???

[jeolmstead]

I and a couple of other posters have already demonstrated what the word of God says and why annointing doorposts in this way is not Biblical.



Yes I have. And guess what: I was still obedient to the word of God and tested what I believed the voice of God was telling me.

I notice that you still won't answer my question:

Does the Bible or does the Bible not tell us to test all things in light of scripture?

Well, If God tells you to, be sure to let Him know that, He will be greatly impressed

John O.

 

[WarEagle]

Well, If God tells you to, be sure to let Him know that, He will be greatly impressed

But that's just it, you see. The Bible doesn't just apply to me and not to you.

God has given you and me the same command.

So, if you say that God will be impressed that I followed the command, what do you think He will be that you disobeyed His command?

 

[jeolmstead]

But that's just it, you see. The Bible doesn't just apply to me and not to you.

God has given you and me the same command.

So, if you say that God will be impressed that I followed the command, what do you think He will be that you disobeyed His command?

Thankfully, I will not have to answer to God based on your judgment. And, if you have obeyed God you will not have a problem either.

God bless


John O.

 

[WarEagle]

Thankfully, I will not have to answer to God based on your judgment.

Good luck. I hope you have a good answer when God asks you why you ignore His word.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

Alright guys, I didn't mean to turn this into a debate or into contention between eachother. I asked some honest questions with a little bit of hesitancy about the subject. I wanted to see where the idea came from and if it was scriptural.

Not whether one or the other of you is better than the other, or the whole world for that matter.

 

[ShammahBenJudah]

Some people are a little confused about who the enemy is...

 

[SharonL]

What makes a difference - what does it hurt - if any evil is hanging around - just the name of Jesus as you are anointing the doorpost will chase them off - what harm does it do? I am sure Jesus will not mind us giving Him that respect - there is no disrespect in doing it. There is no going against the Bible.

As far as it goes - I have seen it work - that is all I can say. Yes, I know we have Jesus with us at all times - He never leaves us or forsakes us - Just the name of Jesus makes demons run - What harm does it do????

I have had people leave my house - saying I cannot stay in your house - my own daughter-in-law (not the one that just died) - and my son could not stay in my house until they got their life straight with Jesus - then they returned and was at peace.

Again - what harm does it do? What disrespect does it show? How does it go against the Bible?

 

[WarEagle]

What makes a difference - what does it hurt - if any evil is hanging around - just the name of Jesus as you are anointing the doorpost will chase them off - what harm does it do? I am sure Jesus will not mind us giving Him that respect - there is no disrespect in doing it. There is no going against the Bible.

But it isn’t respectful. Turning Jesus’ name and Jesus’ blood into fetishes in some superstitious ritual are not respectful to Him. In fact, they’re breaking His commandments by taking His name in vain.

As far as it goes - I have seen it work - that is all I can say. Yes, I know we have Jesus with us at all times - He never leaves us or forsakes us - Just the name of Jesus makes demons run - What harm does it do????

But do we base our doctrine on pragmatism or the word of God?

Again - what harm does it do? What disrespect does it show? How does it go against the Bible?

Because you’re applying Jesus’ name and Jesus’ blood in a way that they are not meant to be applied by making them fetishes in a superstitious ritual.

It’s also very bad theology. The whole point of blood on the doorposts in the Bible was to symbolize the coming sacrifice made on the cross. Now that the sacrifice has been made, why are you still clinging to the symbol when the real thing is available to you?

 

[HephzibahBenJudah]

Other than finding The Way (Jesus) and following Him.



Not every human being is the same and no two people think exactly alike or process their pains and their life experiences or their walk with the Lord in exactly the same fashion. Allow Him to take care of His own..that is why I hear and must say this...Let everyone work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[ShammahBenJudah]

But it isn’t respectful. Turning Jesus’ name and Jesus’ blood into fetishes in some superstitious ritual are not respectful to Him. In fact, they’re breaking His commandments by taking His name in vain.

How can one see the heart?

How can we tell if someone is doing this as a superstitious ritual...or symbolically as in celebrating the Passover the only way they know how?

While one heart may be misguided, the other may be sincerely seeking the Lord and at perfect peace with Him.

It is the practice of this kind of judgement against people that's destroying the lives of countless believers.

Only God can see the heart. He knows when His name is used in vanity and when it isn't. He is the judge and He WILL judge. Not me.

But do we base our doctrine on pragmatism or the word of God?

Nobody has said this was a doctrine or dogma.

Because you’re applying Jesus’ name and Jesus’ blood in a way that they are not meant to be applied by making them fetishes in a superstitious ritual.

It’s also very bad theology. The whole point of blood on the doorposts in the Bible was to symbolize the coming sacrifice made on the cross. Now that the sacrifice has been made, why are you still clinging to the symbol when the real thing is available to you?

Constantine did away with the Passover as it was truly ordained, not Jesus. Now we celebrate it as Communion, The Lord's Supper or whatever other name you have. Its still symbolic of the same thing the Passover is symbolic of.

As a teacher, I would not instruct someone to anoint their doorposts. I just don't believe its necessary and I wouldn't want the accountability of someone falling into some stupidity over it.

If someone wanted to do it and asked permission, I'd probably advise against it...I believe there's a better way.

But I can't see their heart. If someone did do it, I wouldn't be able to pass judgement whether it was right or wrong.

We're supposed to come to Him with childlike faith. That's what counts. When we mess up in that faith, God doesn't smack us in the head with a ball bat, He lovingly guides us into a better understanding of His ways.

That childlike faith is precious in His sight. Never raise a heavy hand to the childlike heart. It would be better to have a millstone hanged around one's neck and go swimming.

 

[WarEagle]

How can one see the heart?

Only God sees the heart. However, we can see their actions and compare them with the Bible.

How can we tell if someone is doing this as a superstitious ritual...or symbolically as in celebrating the Passover the only way they know how?

Because such an act, by it's very definition, is a superstitious ritual.

While one heart may be misguided, the other may be sincerely seeking the Lord and at perfect peace with Him.

How can one be sincerely seeking the Lord if they ignore His word?

It is the practice of this kind of judgement against people that's destroying the lives of countless believers.

I'm sorry that you feel that following God's command to test all things in light of scripture is damaging judgement.

However, I can assure you that ignoring God's word will damage countless more.

Only God can see the heart. He knows when His name is used in vanity and when it isn't. He is the judge and He WILL judge. Not me.

Then why does His word tell us to judge?

Nobody has said this was a doctrine or dogma.

It is, by definition, a doctrine.

Constantine did away with the Passover as it was truly ordained, not Jesus. Now we celebrate it as Communion, The Lord's Supper or whatever other name you have. Its still symbolic of the same thing the Passover is symbolic of.

Like I said, Passover was only a symbol. Read Hebrews 8. It tells us that we're under a new covenant and that we have no need of such rituals now that Jesus has come.

But I can't see their heart. If someone did do it, I wouldn't be able to pass judgement whether it was right or wrong.

But those of us who believe the Bible can.

We're supposed to come to Him with childlike faith. That's what counts. When we mess up in that faith, God doesn't smack us in the head with a ball bat, He lovingly guides us into a better understanding of His ways.

So then, anything we do is OK, as long as we claim "childlike faith?"

Take a look at1 Corinthians 13:11. It tells us that there is a time to be childish and a time to be grown up.

That childlike faith is precious in His sight. Never raise a heavy hand to the childlike heart. It would be better to have a millstone hanged around one's neck and go swimming.

Childlike faith is still no excuse for ignoring God's word.

 

[NorrinRadd]

It seems like a silly superstitious practice to me, but since I don't know of anything resembling a clear Scriptural prohibition against it, I'd not tell someone else it's wrong to do.

 

[ShammahBenJudah]

Only God sees the heart. However, we can see their actions and compare them with the Bible.

Because such an act, by it's very definition, is a superstitious ritual.

If, according to your understanding of God's Word this thing is sin...by all means don't do it.

How can one be sincerely seeking the Lord if they ignore His word?

I'm sorry that you feel that following God's command to test all things in light of scripture is damaging judgement.

However, I can assure you that ignoring God's word will damage countless more.

Please state for us the specific scriptural references we might violate if, for example one symbolically anointed the doorposts of a new home when they dedicate it to the Lord. What is this Word of the Lord they would be ignoring?

And my friend...Jesus is boss. His servants are HIS servants. Until He puts them directly under your accountability...they're His problem, not yours.

If you test scripture for yourself and feel it is sin, don't do it. If you try to force a precept of your understanding onto someone who is not prepared for it you will do them harm...leave the teaching to Him. He's building the house, line upon line and precept upon precept. He knows what He's doing...we don't.

You don't care about collateral damage? Read James 3:1-2 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many things...

He does care about it! Let Him manage it and there's no issue with damage control. Take it into our own hands and there is a price to pay.

Then why does His word tell us to judge?

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

Not people...not everybody believes exactly what you do. That doesn't give you license to judge them because you don't agree with them or because you don't know the reason behind what they do.

It is, by definition, a doctrine.

Who's definition? This is a pretty ambiguous thing to call a doctrine. Care to elucidate?

Like I said, Passover was only a symbol. Read Hebrews 8. It tells us that we're under a new covenant and that we have no need of such rituals now that Jesus has come.

Hebrew 8 does not end the Feasts of the Lord...it talks about the sacrifice.

But those of us who believe the Bible can.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:1-2

So then, anything we do is OK, as long as we claim "childlike faith?"

Why would you derogate such a thing? There is no call for that. Without it one can't even enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Its not an open license to just do whatever. But when you are in childlike faith, you're doing your best to please your Father. And that carries a WHOLE lot more weight with Him than our petty legalism does.

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. 1 Corinthians 10:23

Take a look at1 Corinthians 13:11. It tells us that there is a time to be childish and a time to be grown up.

There is a great difference between childish and childlike. Its an understanding well worth pursuing.

Childlike faith is still no excuse for ignoring God's word.

Again...what Word specifies that we are prohibited from doing something that symbolizes His love and protection for us?

Regarding rituals...Jesus did not bind His disciples to the ritual of handwashing before eating...but Paul did go through the ritual purification before entering the Temple. Sounds to me like what it all boils down to is why the ritual is being done.

If you think that ritually putting oil on your doorposts will scare demons away...it would be about as effective as taking a nap to get rid of roaches.

But if you do it symbolizing the blood on the doorpost of your heart, it might actually help make a spiritual connection with the truth about who they are in Christ. Once we know who we are in Christ...scaring devils away is a piece of cake.

Either way, its not the oil on the outside that does anything. If I'm not mistaken, we're in agreement on that point. If you'd like to discuss the concept further, I would be happy to do that as your Brother in Christ. However I'm weary of the contention...as is everyone else. The conversation ends if the contention continues. K?

 

[SharonL]

If, according to your understanding of God's Word this thing is sin...by all means don't do it.



Please state for us the specific scriptural references we might violate if, for example one symbolically anointed the doorposts of a new home when they dedicate it to the Lord. What is this Word of the Lord they would be ignoring?

And my friend...Jesus is boss. His servants are HIS servants. Until He puts them directly under your accountability...they're His problem, not yours.

If you test scripture for yourself and feel it is sin, don't do it. If you try to force a precept of your understanding onto someone who is not prepared for it you will do them harm...leave the teaching to Him. He's building the house, line upon line and precept upon precept. He knows what He's doing...we don't.

You don't care about collateral damage? Read James 3:1-2 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many things...

He does care about it! Let Him manage it and there's no issue with damage control. Take it into our own hands and there is a price to pay.



Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

Not people...not everybody believes exactly what you do. That doesn't give you license to judge them because you don't agree with them or because you don't know the reason behind what they do.



Who's definition? This is a pretty ambiguous thing to call a doctrine. Care to elucidate?



Hebrew 8 does not end the Feasts of the Lord...it talks about the sacrifice.



Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:1-2



Why would you derogate such a thing? There is no call for that. Without it one can't even enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Its not an open license to just do whatever. But when you are in childlike faith, you're doing your best to please your Father. And that carries a WHOLE lot more weight with Him than our petty legalism does.

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. 1 Corinthians 10:23



There is a great difference between childish and childlike. Its an understanding well worth pursuing.



Again...what Word specifies that we are prohibited from doing something that symbolizes His love and protection for us?

Regarding rituals...Jesus did not bind His disciples to the ritual of handwashing before eating...but Paul did go through the ritual purification before entering the Temple. Sounds to me like what it all boils down to is why the ritual is being done.

If you think that ritually putting oil on your doorposts will scare demons away...it would be about as effective as taking a nap to get rid of roaches.

But if you do it symbolizing the blood on the doorpost of your heart, it might actually help make a spiritual connection with the truth about who they are in Christ. Once we know who we are in Christ...scaring devils away is a piece of cake.

Either way, its not the oil on the outside that does anything. If I'm not mistaken, we're in agreement on that point. If you'd like to discuss the concept further, I would be happy to do that as your Brother in Christ. However I'm weary of the contention...as is everyone else. The conversation ends if the contention continues. K?

SBJ - wonderful post.

I don't know why such a big deal is being made out of this - it is not some voo doo act - the Blood of Jesus is so precious to me and in my heart there is no disrespect whatsoever - I hear from the Holy Spirit - if it was wrong - He would show me or tell me.

All it is in my mind is that no evil can cross the Blood Line - wether the Blood Line is in my heart and my door post - or both - what matters.

If it were a big deal - I would not do it - I don't always do it - it is just an act of love on my part. My final comment on this thread.

 

[WarEagle]

ShammahBenJudah, Sharon, it's obvious that you have your minds made up. If God's word isn't going to convince you, then I don't think I can.

So, for anybody else who believes in the practice, I would strongly encourage you to grab a Bible and a good concordance and look up all of the examples we see of Christ's blood.

I am convinced that you will find that the word of God tells us that the blood of Jesus serves 11 purposes:

1. Redemption. Redemption means to "buy back" or "buy out of" in order to set free by the payment of a ransom price. Dr. Luke writes of the "Church of God which He purchased with His own blood" (Acts 20:28). Paul explains to the Ephesians that "we have redemption through His blood" (Ephesians 1:7). Peter refers to our being "redeemed...with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless" (I Peter 1:19). John concurs by noting that Christ "purchased for God with His blood men from every tribe, tongue, people and nation" (Revelation 5:9).

2. Propitiation. The shed blood of Jesus in His sacrificial death was the objective satisfaction of God's death penalty for sin. "God displayed Jesus as a propitiation in His blood" (Romans 3:25).

3. Cleansing. As the penalty of sin was taken in the death of the Savior, the blood of Christ thus cleanses from sin. "The blood of Christ...will cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God" (Hebrews 9:14). "The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin" (I John 1:7). The apocalyptic literature of the Revelation refers to those who "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14).

4. Forgiveness. The death of Christ, symbolized by the concept of shed blood, releases and forgives men from the penalty of their sins when received by faith. "We have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses" (Ephesians 1:7). He "released us from our sins by His blood" (Revelation 1:5), for "without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" (Hebrews 9:22).

5. Access to God. There could be no access to God unless our sins which alienate us from God were dealt with in death. Even the Gentiles were "brought near (to God) by the blood of Christ" (Ephesians 2:13). As Christians "we have confidence to enter the Holy Place by the blood of Jesus" (Hebrews 10:19).

6. Reconcilation. The basis of our alienation from God is taken away by His taking the death for us in order to reconcile us to God. "Through Him (Christ) God reconciled all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross" (Colossians 1:20).

7. Justification. By the vicarious death of Jesus Christ we are declared righteous and made righteous. Paul refers to Christians "having been justified by His blood" (Romans 5:9).

8. Sanctification. The death of Jesus and the blood shed therein serves to "set apart" Christian people to function as God intended in holiness. "Jesus... that He might sanctify the people through His blood, suffered outside the gate" (Hebrews 13:12).

9. Conquest of evil. Satan, the one "having the power of death" (Hebrews 2:14), has been overcome by Christ taking the death consequences for us. Christians indwelt by Christ continue to be "overcomers." "They overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony" (Revelation 12:11).

10. Basis of the New Covenant. God established a covenant with man as was the custom with men, on the basis of shed blood. The sign of the old covenant was circumcision, and they had the shed blood of sacrificial animals. In the new covenant Christ became the sacrifical lamb and took the cutting of shed blood for us, cutting sin from the hearts of men spiritually. "God brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep (Jesus Christ) through the blood of the eternal covenant" (Hebrews 13:20).

11. Lord's Supper. The Lord's Supper is a commemorative celebration wherein the emblems of blood and juice represent and symbolize the broken body and shed blood of Jesus. It is not a sacrament with saving significance, nor is there any Biblical basis for such a doctrine of "transubstantiation," which teaches that the substance of the bread and juice changes into the actual body and blood of Jesus. The grape juice was a natural symbol for blood. The Old Testament refers to the juice of grapes with the symbolism of blood: Genesis 49:11 - "He washes his garment in wine, and his robes in the blood of grapes." Deuteronomy 32:14 - "of the blood of grapes you drank wine." There was a natural bridge in Hebrew thought between the drinking of wine and the symbolism of blood. Now the Hebrews would not have even considered drinking actual, material blood! That was forbidden by their kosher food laws of the old covenant (Leviticus 3:17; 7:26; 17:10,14), but there was this conceptual bridge from the "blood of grapes" which could then be applied to the "blood of Christ." At the Last Supper with His disciples Jesus said, "This is the new covenant in My blood" (Matthew 26:28; Luke 22:20; I Corinthians 11:25), indicating that the juice represented His blood which would be shed in sacrificial death. Paul also asked of the Corinthians, "Is not the cup of blessing...a sharing in the blood of Christ?" (I Corinthians 10:16). The passage in John 6:53-56 where Jesus speaks of "drinking His blood" must also be considered in its symbolic intent of assimilating the significance of Christ's efficacious blood and sacrificial death for our own lives.

I do not believe that you will find any where in scripture that the blood of Jesus is a magic protection against the Devil or his angels.

There are three ways that the Bible tells us to repel the Devil and his angels:

1. Resisting the devil through prayer, obedience, and holiness (James 4:7, 1 Peter 5:8, Eph 6:11, Luke 10:17)

2. Fasting and prayer (Matthew 17:21)

3. By submitting to the authority of the word of God (Matthew 4:4-11)

We're told that we can repel Satan and his angels by resisting him, by fasting and prayer, and by submitting to the authority of the word of God.

Not once are we ever told that we should repel the Devil and his angels by rubbing olive oil symbolizing blood on our doorposts.

That is strictly an Unbiblical, man-made idea.

 

[WarEagle]

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