Announcement: CO Forums

skylark1 · Sep 27, 2008

Letalis said:
Members that have selected a non-Trinitarian/Unorthodox icon won't have access to the CO forums.

PETE said:
NON-Nicene Christian ICONS

Christian Seeker
Other-Church
Non-Trinitarian Messianic
Unitarian
Mormon
Jehovahs Witness

Not even those who identify as Christian seekers wil be allowed to post in Christian Only forums? This includes the forum "For New Christians".

Something is wrong with this picture.

Letalis · Sep 27, 2008

Christian Seekers will be able to post.

This is a more accurate list:

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7278090

CaDan · Sep 27, 2008

Are you willing to pledge that if there are any forced icon changes you will resign from Staff?

Moriah_Conquering_Wind · Sep 27, 2008

skylark1 said:
Will there be any sort of exception made for the unorthodox theology forum and the subforums within it? There are unorthodox beliefs and issues that are contrary to the CF SoF. My understanding is that generally that is why these beliefs and issues are regulated to discussion in this forum and subforums.

Ditto that question -- will discussions about, say, the awareness of all being reconciled to God through Christ as opposed to belief in an eternal torture chamber scarytale be permitted still in the "unorthodox" section at least?

CF supports the following as a statement of faith:

We worship one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Isaiah 44:6-8; Exodus 3:15). God is three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who share one essence--the Trinity (John 6:27; John 1:1, 14; Romans 8:9; Hebrews 1:2-3).

Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ, the incarnate second person of the Holy Trinity, fully God and fully man (John 1:1, 14), by the Power of the Holy Spirit was born of a Virgin (Luke 1:35) and existed before all time begotten of God the Father (John 1:2; John 1:18). He was crucified for our sins, died, was buried, resurrected on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:3-4) and is seated at the right hand of the Father (Mark 16:19). Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah (John 1:49; Matthew 16:16). His coming was foretold by the prophets of the Old Testament (Acts 3:18-23). He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead (Acts 10:42) and His Kingdom will have no end (2 Peter 1:11).

Please note for the record nowhere in there does it state a Christian can never wind up daimonizomai. So being infested does not make a person no longer a believer.

Radagast · Sep 27, 2008

CaDan said:
Are you willing to pledge that if there are any forced icon changes you will resign from Staff?

I think that's too much to ask. I can imagine rare situations where forced icon changes might be necessary -- e.g. when someone with a Christian icon posts unambiguously atheist or non-Christian comments.

CaDan · Sep 27, 2008

Radagast said:
I think that's too much to ask. I can imagine rare situations where forced icon changes might be necessary -- e.g. when someone with a Christian icon posts unambiguously atheist or non-Christian comments.

Yes, it is a lot to ask. Yet some Staff members have pledged they will not participate in such actions. Either they are willing to stand up for that pledge or they are not.

Tenebrae · Sep 27, 2008

Radagast said:
I think that's too much to ask. I can imagine rare situations where forced icon changes might be necessary -- e.g. when someone with a Christian icon posts unambiguously atheist or non-Christian comments.

I dont.

We have multiple senior staff from Admins all the way up to advisors stating that there will be no forced icon changes with several of those staffers saying that they will resign if there is forced icon changes.

I'm deeply cynical, however the people that have made that promise are good people, and I dont think its something they would say if they didnt mean it.

ReadingForOrders · Sep 27, 2008

CaDan said:
Yes, it is a lot to ask. Yet some Staff members have pledged they will not participate in such actions. Either they are willing to stand up for that pledge or they are not.

Your request is unreasonable. Most of those who are posting that there will be no forced icon changes are simply passing on the information they have been given. Most of them could not affect such a change to begin with and most would have no knowledge of the action if it was taken.

Servant of Jesus · Sep 27, 2008

I very much support this initiative- there are lots of places where those who do not profess to be Christians can participate here.

Restricting some forums to only those who profess to be Christians does several good things:

1. it provides a less confrontational environment where Christians can share their thoughts.

2. it will encourage posters to uphold Christian principles in comments that are made.

3. it will allow those are seeking to know more about Christianity to read and get a better idea of what Christian principles are all about, and how those who profess to be Christians conduct themselves.

And as for the moderators- I have every confidence that those who are truly Christians will have the power of the Holy Spirit to guide them in their decision-making. We can help that process by seeking to pray, every day, for the moderators of this site, especially when we see something that is in danger of going off the rails.

CaDan · Sep 27, 2008

ReadingForOrders said:
Your request is unreasonable. Most of those who are posting that there will be no forced icon changes are simply passing on the information they have been given. Most of them could not affect such a change to begin with and most would have no knowledge of the action if it was taken.

Until one week ago, I was "on the inside." I have held nearly every position, both Staff and non-Staff, available at this site. Pray do not lecture me on what Staff members do and do not know.

I do not ask Staff members to pledge to change CF policy. I know more about CF policy and the history thereof than anyone on this site. I know what it takes to modify policy at this site. What I ask of them is to pledge, on their honor, that if they are going to publicly say there will be no forced icon changes then if there are forced icon changes, they will resign from CF Staff.

Sylvanspirits · Sep 27, 2008

Letalis said:
Members that have selected a non-Trinitarian/Unorthodox icon won't have access to the CO forums.

Interesting. So even people that would meet Jesus Christ's definition of who is a Christian:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

"I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." - John 10:9

And Luke's definition of who is a Christian:

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." - Acts 16:31

And Paul's definition of who is a Christian:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9

Will still not be considered Christians because they don't hold views common to the majority of Christianity?

Did the thief on the cross next to Jesus know of the Trinity? He knew Jesus was Lord, but did he know of the roles of the Father and the Holy Spirit? How could he?

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. - Luke 23:39-43

So, the real question is: If non-Nicene Christians are saved, which they are according to the Bible, why would they be excluded from CO areas?
Is it because they aren't 'good enough' in the eyes of man?

Moriah_Conquering_Wind · Sep 28, 2008

Just want to give a BIG thumbs up to those Staff members whats signing this pledge of honor. It means a great deal to see you willing not only to refuse to support icon witch hunts but also to see you putting your position on the line to do so.

Sylvanspirits · Sep 28, 2008

Second that as well. Kudo's to everyone who signed the pledge.

OceanAngel · Sep 28, 2008

This is just wrong.

Wheres the pledge? I'd like to see it.

Radagast · Sep 28, 2008

Rochir said:
Say, Letalis ... WHEN will we yank faith icons from members again????

I was expecting the test case to appear the moment CaDan's challenge was issued. You are a Unitarian (I remember you from the old days ), but I see you choose not to use the Unitarian icon?

Rochir · Sep 28, 2008

Radagast said:
I was expecting the test case to appear the moment CaDan's challenge was issued. You are a Unitarian (I remember you from the old days ), but I see you choose not to use the Unitarian icon?

You are right, I do not use the Unitarian icon because it does not correctly represent my believes!

wave: I do not really recall you from older times)

I am a Unitarian CHRISTIAN. Hence my Christian icon. Got a problem with that?

tulc · Sep 28, 2008

Does this affect posting in WWMC?
tulc(just curious)

MrJim · Sep 28, 2008

tulc said:
Does this affect posting in WWMC?
tulc(just curious)

For New Christians, Theology, Types of Ministry, and Edification.

"Congregation" isn't on the list~seems it's still OK..

DeanM · Sep 28, 2008

CaDan and those who accept his pledge have my 100% support.

The day that CF can start altering the icons of its members is the day that the last remnant of Christian faith has disappeared from the upper staff.

Jesus spoke of love and acceptance. He taught how to guide by caring examples. He embraced those that society shunned.

He never refused to discuss the Glory of His Father with somebody who was not already Christian enough.

And He certainly never told a single soul that they were unorthodox if they believed in Him.

CF alone seems to think that they can weild that type of power.

Thankfully, I don't have staff membership any more. Any staffer who might recall my dismissal knows why I was removed.

Cuz I spoke up against this type of hypocritical thinking.

I applaud CaDan for trying to stick it out keep this from happening. I support his decision to draw the line where he has.

100%

MrJim · Sep 28, 2008

DeanM said:
The day that CF can start altering the icons of its members is the day that the last remnant of Christian faith has disappeared from the upper staff.

CF is a private business and not a church and it is establishing its own business practices and they can enforce their rulez as they see fit.

As we're always reminded there are a hundred other sites out there if CF/s rulez are unacceptable.

It's a business..it's a business..it's a business..to think it's anything more than that is fantasy..

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