Angry Men

[Dave-W]

Actually, I disagree. CF is a business. It exists to make its owner money. That people who are part of the church participate here, does not make the site itself an expression of church.

On a technical level I can agree. I was not referring to the internet website, though; I was referring to the body of people here who make up CF. Without us the website would be a blank piece of cyberspace.

 

[carp614]

Learning more constructive ways to examine my anger has made the biggest difference. "Is this a good reason to get mad?" is a question I had to learn to ask myself. Initially I would ask myself this question after the anger was already passed. The older I get, the easier it has become to start asking myself that question before I get angry. I am finding the answer to be "no" almost universally when I have the resolve to ask myself this question early.

I spot the process starting earlier than I used to. That has been a massive, nearly miraculous blessing. I find myself saying in my mind, "you're getting angry" as soon as the tension starts to build. I can stop it before it develops significant momentum.

One of the most helpful things I ever did was to stop following the day-to-day details of politics. I haven't watched cable news for a couple of years now and I systematically removed all partisan political commentary from my life.

...and do you know what happened? nothing...

The sun still comes up every morning. I still have my Bill of Rights. Very little of consequence has changed for me over multiple administrations. Now instead of building diatribes on the wrongness of some politicians point of view or tweet I just ignore it. I still vote. I still have an opinion. I simply refuse to be drawn into the cringe worthy mayhem and disorder that makes up the daily political news.

I highly recommend this approach.

 

[~Zao~]

What I don’t get from anyone looking for a helpmeet in their lives, why they get so angry at any attempt to help, and claiming supremacy to enforce that their helpmeets cannot have a voice to help with. Robots can do the same thing, but we all know God made free-will beings, not robots. Anger is frustration. So are tears.

 

[Dave-W]

What I don’t get from anyone looking for a helpmeet in their lives, why they get so angry at any attempt to help, and claiming supremacy to enforce that their helpmeets cannot have a voice to help with. Robots can do the same thing, but we all know God made free-will beings, not robots. Anger is frustration. So are tears.

"Helpmeet." Don't get me started on that bad translation.

 

[~Zao~]

"Helpmeet." Don't get me started on that bad translation.

God is actually the helpmeet of the church.

 

[Dave-W]

God is actually the helpmeet of the church.

The Greek Paracletos (one called along side) is not the same as the Hebrew 'Ezer. (a helper opposite to him)

 

[~Zao~]

The Greek Paracletos (one called along side) is not the same as the Hebrew 'Ezer. (a helper opposite to him)

The Holy Spirit is then not the helpmeet? God the Father is. Emmanuel.
The Hebrew word “help” is ezer, a combination of two roots, one meaning “to rescue”, “to save,” and the other meaning “to be strong. Ezer occurs 21 times in the Hebrew Bible. In eight of these instances the word means “saviour”.


1 Samuel 7:12
Then Samuel took a stone and set it up between Mizpah and Jeshanah, and named it Ebenezer;
for he said, “Thus far the Lord has helped us.”


Peace

 

[Dave-W]

The Holy Spirit is then not the helpmeet? G

"Helpmeet" is a manufactured word.

Paracletos means one called along side. Yes, that is for help to us; but that is NOT the meaning of the word itself.

Emmanuel.

עמנואל A compound Hebrew word. In the parts: Ima Nu El.
Ima also means mother. The root means to be very near.
-nu a suffix, first person plural. "to us." "our"
El God.

Together they mean the God that is very near to us.

'Ezer as used in Gen 2 has the meaning of something opposite and corresponding to. Not the same but fills in the gaps in each other. More of a completer than a helper.

 

[Dave-W]

Hmmm - I think the Hebrew lesson is veering off topic as well.

 

[bèlla]

Hmmm - I think the Hebrew lesson is veering off topic as well.

If it fleshes the meaning out its fine.

 

[bèlla]

What I don’t get from anyone looking for a helpmeet in their lives, why they get so angry at any attempt to help, and claiming supremacy to enforce that their helpmeets cannot have a voice to help with. Robots can do the same thing, but we all know God made free-will beings, not robots. Anger is frustration. So are tears.

I think you’ve raised a good point. Do you think its especially difficult for someone who feels disenfranchised to accept help from a woman?

 

[~Zao~]

This might sound weird but since most point to the dfference in men and women, the facts are that women were built (as the church is built) not created as men are, so the fact that the second Adam has brought the church (all 'women' to Him, as the church) gives evidence also of His overcoming work in the Jubilee. He has lifted all of His to a state much higher because of His finished work. And seated us all with Him. People forget that God is living and moving and that we need to move with Him, whether that be reckoning, believing or appropriating His position delegated to the new creation.

 

[Dave-W]

If it fleshes the meaning out its fine.

OK. Thank you.

Do you think its especially difficult for someone who feels disenfranchised to accept help from a woman?

IMO from the meaning of "Ezer, it would kind of be required. But to answer the question, many would find it difficult, I am sure.

Zao mentioned the incident in Gen 31 where Jacob and Laban erected a tower called Mizpah, and the broken coin jewelry often used to carry that passage illustrates the idea of "ezer rather well. Each has a part that pushes out and a part that sinks in; and the 2 together fill in each others places to form a whole:

 

[Petros2015]

What makes men angry?
I guess it's when we can't get what we want
When we want it
The way we want it
And if you feel like you can't win the game
Or it was rigged
Or others are getting what we deserve
(whether we deserve it or not)
Then we want to 'flip the table'
Exerting physical power (or the threat of it) briefly establishes
A feeling of personal power
The frustration with life and with Self
Is taken out on a weaker target
When we no longer care about the consequences to ourselves
We certainly no longer care about the consequences to others

There needs to be a path to success
And a redefinition
Of what success is
Culturally, we have created a system
Of instant gratification
And selfish indulgence
And therefore we are creating men
Who will be very angry indeed
When they see they can not get it
Or that the process of trying to get it
In the manner which is suggested
Destroys them

 

[~Zao~]

OK. Thank you.

IMO from the meaning of "Ezer, it would kind of be required. But to answer the question, many would find it difficult, I am sure.

Zao mentioned the incident in Gen 31 where Jacob and Laban erected a tower called Mizpah, and the broken coin jewelry often used to carry that passage illustrates the idea of "ezer rather well. Each has a part that pushes out and a part that sinks in; and the 2 together fill in each others places to form a whole:

It could be said that those are 3 partings: the fall, the road back for Jacob and the parting from theocracy to kingship. In each God set a point in front of them to abide at, and in each a detour was made that disobeyed the plain word of God.

.

 

[Noxot]

This might sound weird but since most point to the dfference in men and women, the facts are that women were built (as the church is built) not created as men are, so the fact that the second Adam has brought the church (all 'women' to Him, as the church) gives evidence also of His overcoming work in the Jubilee. He has lifted all of His to a state much higher because of His finished work. And seated us all with Him. People forget that God is living and moving and that we need to move with Him, whether that be reckoning, believing or appropriating His position delegated to the new creation.

Yes the types and shadows show heavenly wisdom that flesh and blood can't inherit. And our material world is a world of correspondence to the realm of the spirit. The second Adam has more than the restoration of paradise to look forward to.

Men can become better men when they stop being mere beast (same for women). The woman is the soul and the man is the spirit. A cold soul is fallen and a burning one is restored because of its closeness to God. Men are thought to be superior in many old cultures and so God used their ideas to attempt to communicate with them by their own concepts. But God's thoughts are higher than mans. Therefore the unwise stumble and their childish fleshly nature is revealed to all.

 

[~Zao~]

Yes the types and shadows show heavenly wisdom that flesh and blood can't inherit. And our material world is a world of correspondence to the realm of the spirit. The second Adam has more than the restoration of paradise to look forward to.

Men can become better men when they stop being mere beast (same for women). The woman is the soul and the man is the spirit. A cold soul is fallen and a burning one is restored because of its closeness to God. Men are thought to be superior in many old cultures and so God used their ideas to attempt to communicate with them by their own concepts. But God's thoughts are higher than mans. Therefore the unwise stumble and their childish fleshly nature is revealed to all.

Luke 9:62

οὐδεὶς ἐπιβαλὼν, the necessity of self-concentration inculcated in proverbial language borrowed from agricultural life. The ambition to make a straight furrow has been common to ploughmen in all ages and countries, and it needs, like the highest calling, steady intention and a forward-cast eye.

Philippians 3:13

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What are the root causes of male disenfranchisement? How do we help them manage their anger in a healthy way? How have you tackled this within yourself or with others?

Please share your thoughts.

Here's another question to perhaps add to your existing questions, sister LaBèlla:

What are the root causes of Male Atheist Anger? .... just a thought to keep your thread moving.

 

[bèlla]

Here's another question to perhaps add to your existing questions, sister LaBèlla:
What are the root causes of Male Atheist Anger? .... just a thought to keep your thread moving.

I know my share of atheists. But none of them are angry or disenfranchised either. All of them take exception to negative stereotypes of men and boys and call out their sex as well.

They are controlled men who are matter of fact, exacting, and very intelligent. I would say their greatest flaw is pride. But its not the sort that breeds overconfidence. They’re self-aware but willing to listen and consider other perspectives. Sound arguments devoid of histrionics and straw men attempts fare best. Needless to say, we get along. ;-)

I imagine you have your own ideas on this subject.

 

[bèlla]

What makes men angry?
I guess it's when we can't get what we want
about the consequences to ourselves
We certainly no longer care about the consequences to others

I think you’ve summarized the deeper issues affecting men. Especially the disenfranchised and those grappling with anger about their condition. It is difficult to look beyond upset to hear the heart. But that’s the lone way to empathize and minister to the hurting.

Do you believe things will worsen if improvements don’t occur? Where do you see them heading?