Angry Baptists

[Susan]

I don't mean this as an anti-Baptist troll, and in my theological beliefs, that is what I am closest to although I am nondenominational. Nevertheless, from my own experience in family and with others, there seems to be this deep, all-too-easily tapped spring of anger in longtime Baptists. Maybe this bears out to my other brothers and sisters in Christ also. . .I hope not.

My question is: Why are Baptists so angry?

 

[Gerry]

Susan, you are right! I have noticed the same thing. But it seems to me to go beyond the Baptists. As one who spends time in Churches of many denominations I have noticed there seeems to be an inordinate amount of anger in them all these days.

I attribute that to satan as he and his demons seem to be working overtime and putting in long hours to bring disunity and destruction to the Body off Christ! Let us pray for our brothers and sisters everywhere, that God will sustain them in this hour!

 

[Susan]

I also attribute it to our unwillingness to confront anger as sin. I consider it hypocrisy at the highest to denounce one sin but not another equally bad one.

To prove the point, if I remember correctly, I once saw a car with a large "Straight Pride" bumper sticker. All well and good. Then I saw the next bumper sticker: "Rush [Limbaugh] is Right!" (If you do not know, Rush Limbaugh is the radio talk-show host whose entire show is based on his angry, arrogant expressions of his views of political conservatism)

Maybe if we treated anger and arrogance as seriously as we treat other sins, we would be much nicer people to coexist with?

 

[Gerry]

You are again correct in saying that anger and pride certainly do make our existence less peacful. We must recognize them for the sins they are and root them out of our hearts in humble contrition.

 

[Greeter]

Originally posted by Susan
I also attribute it to our unwillingness to confront anger as sin. I consider it hypocrisy at the highest to denounce one sin but not another equally bad one.

To prove the point, if I remember correctly, I once saw a car with a large "Straight Pride" bumper sticker. All well and good. Then I saw the next bumper sticker: "Rush [Limbaugh] is Right!" (If you do not know, Rush Limbaugh is the radio talk-show host whose entire show is based on his angry, arrogant expressions of his views of political conservatism)

Maybe if we treated anger and arrogance as seriously as we treat other sins, we would be much nicer people to coexist with?

You sound angry.

While there is scripture to show the dangers of anger there are also verses to show it justified such as Mark 3:5, Gen 31:36, Ex 11:8, Ex 32:19, Lev 10:16, and Num 16:15.  If anger is always a sin then why do we have verses saying to be slow to anger such as Prov 15:18, Prov 16:32, Titus 1:7, and James 1:19?

 

[dignitized]

Its a decay within the church as a whole. People have been so worried about the OBVIOUS devils hanging out on the street infront of the church they have failed to spot the subtle devils creeping in through the back door.

Look at simple things like pride. I face every day people trying to justify and prove to me that some pride is a good thing. They completly ignore the fact that the Scriptures NEVER speak of pride as a good thing, always a bad thing so bad infact that pride is one of the 7 deadly sins right there along side ANGER.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Originally posted by Susan
I also attribute it to our unwillingness to confront anger as sin. I consider it hypocrisy at the highest to denounce one sin but not another equally bad one.

To prove the point, if I remember correctly, I once saw a car with a large "Straight Pride" bumper sticker. All well and good. Then I saw the next bumper sticker: "Rush [Limbaugh] is Right!" (If you do not know, Rush Limbaugh is the radio talk-show host whose entire show is based on his angry, arrogant expressions of his views of political conservatism)

Maybe if we treated anger and arrogance as seriously as we treat other sins, we would be much nicer people to coexist with?

 

[repentandbelieve]

Dear Br Max
Anger is not a sin. Wouldn't you agree that when Jesus flipped over a few tables that he was angry.
Where did this teaching of the 7 deadly sins come from.? Isn't sin of any kind deadly?.

 

[Greeter]

Did the language the Bible was written in (Greek?) have variations of anger like there were variations for love?  That might explain why some forms of anger are wrong (like vengeance) just as some forms of love are wrong( like physical love outside of the marriage).  Otherwise why are we told "be slow to anger" in the above verses as opposed to "do not get angry"?

 

[Blackhawk]

First I want ot say that I am a long time Baptist and I am not usually rnning around here angry. I do not think it is good to sterotype one denomination as angry or whatever. WE take a stance here at this forum that no one can do this against CAtholics but it applies to Baptists as well. Now this thread has shifted away from just Baptists to all Christians so it will reamin open. Only thing I suggest is to watch out for stereotyping.

 

[seebs]

I'd like to point people at a very interesting person who may shed some light on this question; Reverend C. Joshua Villines. He has posted here a couple of times (though not in months, that I know of), and hangs around on Internet Infidels and BaptistBoard.

I think it helps explain things a lot to observe that, on the not-infrequent occasions on which he disagrees with some of the more traditional Southern Baptists, he is generally not the one who is visibly angry.

I don't think this means "Baptists are bad people" or anything like that; I think, though, that looking at the ways in which people are mad at him, you can see the roots of a lot of anger in Christians. I personally think he's a great guy.

A lot of Christians, I think, tend to figure that if you yell at the sinner loud enough, the sin will hear you.

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by seebs
I'd like to point people at a very interesting person who may shed some light on this question; Reverend C. Joshua Villines. He has posted here a couple of times (though not in months, that I know of), and hangs around on Internet Infidels and BaptistBoard.

I think it helps explain things a lot to observe that, on the not-infrequent occasions on which he disagrees with some of the more traditional Southern Baptists, he is generally not the one who is visibly angry.

I don't think this means "Baptists are bad people" or anything like that; I think, though, that looking at the ways in which people are mad at him, you can see the roots of a lot of anger in Christians. I personally think he's a great guy.

A lot of Christians, I think, tend to figure that if you yell at the sinner loud enough, the sin will hear you.

Seebs,

I am even a long time Southern Baptist.    I see your point.  But do you think that they yell because they feel threatened or maybe because they care for that person so much that they have much empotion and then it comes out in a wrong way? Or maybe because they really do not care so much and hate when people question their beliefs?  I can see all of these to be the case woth different people.  I am not saying that you are wrogn Seebs just posting from a different way of attacking the same problem. 

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Blackhawk

I am even a long time Southern Baptist.    I see your point.  But do you think that they yell because they feel threatened or maybe because they care for that person so much that they have much empotion and then it comes out in a wrong way? Or maybe because they really do not care so much and hate when people question their beliefs?  I can see all of these to be the case woth different people.  I am not saying that you are wrogn Seebs just posting from a different way of attacking the same problem. 

I think it's a bit of all of those, as you say. Some of it might be fear of being wrong; few positions are defended so viciously as those we aren't quite certain of.

You will see a lot more vitriol directed at someone who contradicts a minor and widely disputed point of doctrine than someone who says "you don't even exist, I don't believe in you". You *KNOW* you exist; you can't even meaningfully doubt it.

There are many things that can make people angry. I think concern expressed badly is probably one of the less common ones - but at the same time, it's probably the most charitable thing to think of someone.

 

[sola fide]

I'm a very proud Baptist, so I can speak first-hand on this issue. I have met some disgruntled Baptists, and I can tell you a few of the main reasons for this stereotype.
First, is the problem of autonomous congregational rule. You see, each person in the Baptist congregation has equal say in the general affairs of the church. This sometimes leads to bickering and even bitterness. This brings about pride. Church can argue over issues that should never be mentioned, being that each person has an equal vote. This can lead to hostility between congregants who had differing opinions on issues. It can also lead to problems between pastors who have a different vision than that of some of the church members.
Secondly there is the problem that sometimes it's just plain hard to be a Baptist now-a-days. Why is it hard? Because it's hard to find a church that believes exactly the same as you do. Baptist churches range in a wide variety of theological issues because there is no one creed or confession that they must adhere to. For instance, I am a Southern Baptist, and in my town alone you could walk into a S.B. church and find one like mine that is calvinistic and covenental in theology or another one that is extreme arminian and dispensational.
Baptists are at a bit of an identity crisis, and have been having one for the last 30 years. The Baptist movement began, some 400 years ago as a calvinistic, conservative movement; but today it is hard to find a great number of churches that adhere to these principles.
Luckily, there is a great movement today known as the founders movement, which is being pushed by the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, to get back to the roots of the Baptist faith and message.

Fundamentalism has been a downfall in the Baptist church, focusing more on the evils of alcohol and drugs, the freedom of the believer, etc. than focusing on the more important matters of true biblical theology and the rearing of the family. I don't really think Baptists are that "angry", they just want to preach the truth as loudly as possible. And until we get back to the real "truth" of the Word of God, Baptists can come off as being angry.

I'm happy to say that I still believe the true Baptist faith to be the closest to that of the new testament church. Stressing the apostles' doctrine, fellowship, and the two ordinances of the n.t. church, believers' baptism and the Lord's supper. I'm proud to be a Baptist, and if I ever come off as an "angry Baptist" it surely must be because I want to truths of God's word to prevail, and not tradition or error. I still have some issues with the autonomous congregation and with the lack of creeds and confessions in the Baptist life, but my church has taken steps to promote church discipline and we have adopted the "abstracts of principles" as set forth by Basil Manly, Jr. as our confession of faith. Once again, I do not think the majority of Baptists are "angry Baptists" but if I come across one I will surely tell him it's time to repent.

Grace to you.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
First I want ot say that I am a long time Baptist and I am not usually rnning around here angry. I do not think it is good to sterotype one denomination as angry or whatever. WE take a stance here at this forum that no one can do this against CAtholics but it applies to Baptists as well. Now this thread has shifted away from just Baptists to all Christians so it will reamin open. Only thing I suggest is to watch out for stereotyping.

Thank you Blackhawk. I am also Baptist and I don't consider myself an "angry" person. Anger is a personal reaction to any given situation, and has nothing to do with the church a person attends.

 

[vegan]

I began going to a Baptist church after I was saved this past October(previously, I had been a Roman Catholic). One of the things I LOVE about Baptist worship (I have only been to Southern Baptist services) is that everyone is so HAPPY and ready to share the lord with you. There is so much joy and friendliness in the air; way more than the many, many catholic church services I have been to.

 

[Buggyman]

Originally posted by sola fide
I'm a very proud Baptist, so I can speak first-hand on this issue. I have met some disgruntled Baptists, and I can tell you a few of the main reasons for this stereotype.
First, is the problem of autonomous congregational rule. You see, each person in the Baptist congregation has equal say in the general affairs of the church. This sometimes leads to bickering and even bitterness. This brings about pride. Church can argue over issues that should never be mentioned, being that each person has an equal vote. This can lead to hostility between congregants who had differing opinions on issues. It can also lead to problems between pastors who have a different vision than that of some of the church members.
Secondly there is the problem that sometimes it's just plain hard to be a Baptist now-a-days. Why is it hard? Because it's hard to find a church that believes exactly the same as you do. Baptist churches range in a wide variety of theological issues because there is no one creed or confession that they must adhere to. For instance, I am a Southern Baptist, and in my town alone you could walk into a S.B. church and find one like mine that is calvinistic and covenental in theology or another one that is extreme arminian and dispensational.
Baptists are at a bit of an identity crisis, and have been having one for the last 30 years. The Baptist movement began, some 400 years ago as a calvinistic, conservative movement; but today it is hard to find a great number of churches that adhere to these principles.
Luckily, there is a great movement today known as the founders movement, which is being pushed by the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, to get back to the roots of the Baptist faith and message.

Fundamentalism has been a downfall in the Baptist church, focusing more on the evils of alcohol and drugs, the freedom of the believer, etc. than focusing on the more important matters of true biblical theology and the rearing of the family. I don't really think Baptists are that "angry", they just want to preach the truth as loudly as possible. And until we get back to the real "truth" of the Word of God, Baptists can come off as being angry.

I'm happy to say that I still believe the true Baptist faith to be the closest to that of the new testament church. Stressing the apostles' doctrine, fellowship, and the two ordinances of the n.t. church, believers' baptism and the Lord's supper. I'm proud to be a Baptist, and if I ever come off as an "angry Baptist" it surely must be because I want to truths of God's word to prevail, and not tradition or error. I still have some issues with the autonomous congregation and with the lack of creeds and confessions in the Baptist life, but my church has taken steps to promote church discipline and we have adopted the "abstracts of principles" as set forth by Basil Manly, Jr. as our confession of faith. Once again, I do not think the majority of Baptists are "angry Baptists" but if I come across one I will surely tell him it's time to repent.

Grace to you.

That's the key right there... It's called Church Politic. This is what you will find many "Anger" is about.
I sometimes like to joke that the Reason that the Southern Baptist denominations is one of the largest is because we split all the time!
But in all fairness.. Baptists are some of the Finest Christains around. They Love the Lord with all their Heart.
But the Key to remember is that no Group of Baptist follow the same direction of "How" to go about God's work.
So.. Being an old Southern Baptist Boy Myself.. Yes I've seen my share of Church Politic. I made the decision last year that I was out of Church Politic and was going to serve the Lord where he saw fit.

Love you all ...Baptist or not!
Buggy

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Angry Baptists?
Is this a new denomination?

 

[Phoebe]

I think it has to do with us stretching ourselves too thin. We have so many irons in the fire, we get grouchy and irritable with each other. We are becoming more resentful of demands on our time. (I am not Baptist)
We need to simplify and prioritise.

 

[Ioustinos]

Originally posted by Susan


. Then I saw the next bumper sticker: "Rush [Limbaugh] is Right!" (If you do not know, Rush Limbaugh is the radio talk-show host whose entire show is based on his angry, arrogant expressions

What are you talking about? Rush is Right!!!!


I really do like Rush though