razeontherock
Well-Known Member
Sterken, that long post was very uplifting. Good to have you contributing here!
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First some basic definitions,How could a loving God allow such horrific things to happen to His little creatures all over the world?
To show us that if we simply were created to live in Heaven we too would eventually rebel. We need this life to prove to ourselves that we want to be with God, and to lean how to be with God..Please don't give me the whole 'it's not God, it's Satan' routine, I know that. I'm asking a broader question. Like why did God even create Satan in the first place?
There is no rescue in this life. He may take us out of the heat for a while or even bring us relief, but make no mistake, so long as you draw breath you are in the furnace being forged, into the being who is to spend eternity with God.Why would God give us a free will to choose whether or not to sin, since He KNOWS we're gonna? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but to me it just seems like selfishness. Like God lets horrible things happen to us just so He can rescue us and get glory for it...
The destruction of innocents is only apart of what Christ endured to give you the freedom to be angry at God. You contribute to this fallen world just like the man who would rape a little girl does. As do we all, this is why we need to look at price the raped little girl payed to remind us of the true cost of the forgiveness of our sins. We also need to strive to understand what Price Jesus actually payed, beyond the cliché' that we recite when we are at church.... but every time I hear about something terrible happening to someone, especially a child or an animal who are completely innocent, I shake my fist at God. Not Satan, God. After all, God's in charge; Satan isn't almighty, he's a created being, who can only do what he's allowed to...
Again if He did not spare his only Son...This is a huge stumbling point for me; I just can't bear the thought of the God I love not preventing absolutely nightmarish things from happening..when He could at the snap of His fingers.. it just seems so cruel..
God did not create evil, He allows it.So, you see, God does everything for His own glory, even create evil people who are destined to go to hell just so He can show His power. Matthew 25:31-46 also talks about pre-destiny. He created Satan to be evil, the Bible says so. Why would God create a destroyer for our world?
Yes I can, even you can, but only if you look past your personal theologies that paints God as selfish.That's how He intended it. How can anyone on here say that isn't selfish??
You are not the savior of the world, so stop trying to be. Perhaps you are here to save one person. Will you forsake that one soul because you can not save the whole world?I'm one person; the whole world is suffering. I can't help everyone, even though I desperately want to!
Help to what end? Should He make it so we all have a long and healthy life, but because we did not spiritually mature, we all get sent to Hell or even if He lets us all into heaven. do you not think the spiritually immature will not simply rebel later and He cast us all into hell anyway? Isn't this what happened to Satan and His angels? Are you better than an angel of God specifically created to live at his side? Do you think the rest of humanity is?It torments me so much to think that no matter what I do, it's impossible for me to help all those that need it..I think, I'm so small and God's so big, why doesn't He do anything to help?? And then I remember, He created it to be this way... what kind of God does that??? A selfish one..
Simply approach this and God with an open mind and ask for clarityI know there's a whole heck of a lot that I don't understand. I know God's ways are above our own. Don't get me wrong. I love God, with all my heart. But I'm so torn up inside, I don't know what I'm supposed to do..
I don't know, but a good number of people who have had truly terrible things happen to them have strong faith in God and in his goodness. If they can go through terrible things like sexual abuse, betrayal by family members, seeing their parents murdered, and believe in God's goodness, then why can't you?How could a loving God allow such horrific things to happen to His little creatures all over the world?
That doesn't wash with Scripture.Like why did God even create Satan in the first place? Why would God give us a free will to choose whether or not to sin, since He KNOWS we're gonna? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but to me it just seems like selfishness. Like God lets horrible things happen to us just so He can rescue us and get glory for it...
You're assuming God created that situation. The Bible tells us what God created: The trees, the animals, the oceans, the atmosphere, people - and it was good. People were good. But we disobeyed God's ways, and messed it all up. God doesn't sin against people. People do that.The point is why create a situation where healing is required anyway?
So you would shake your fist at God, who hates sin rather than Satan, who is a true sadist and promotes even the most vile sins for his own pleasure?but every time I hear about something terrible happening to someone, especially a child or an animal who are completely innocent, I shake my fist at God. Not satan, God. After all, God's in charge; Satan isn't almighty, he's a created being, who can only do what he's allowed to...
And that verse doesn't refer to Satan. It refers to soldiers. Israel had a history of being punished with war for all kinds of terrible sins and injustices. They were familiar with what enemy soldiers could do to them and their land. The point of that verse is that no army can thwart God. God created all the angels. Some of them disobeyed him and rebelled against him. But the Bible does not say that Satan was created for that express purpose.Ok, to those who have said things like "God didn't make Satan the way he is. Satan chose to be who he is." That's not even Biblical. Isaiah 54:16-"See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to work havoc;"
God is able to get glory out of a fallen world, but would he not get more glory if there were more obedience? If he would, then that disproves the notion that he lets this happen for the purpose of getting more glory. And that leaves us with two options: That he isn't smart enough to see this, or that he really isn't all that selfish after all. If he's not smart enough to see this, then that would logically mean that he's not omniscient, and if he's not omniscient, that takes some of the edge off his so-called culpability in the problem of evil. But God is omniscient according to Scripture. If he's omniscient, that would explain that he knows he would get at least as much, if not more glory from more people being obedient. Which means he knows he's leaving some glory on the table by allowing evil to exist. Which defeats the notion that he is selfishly pursuing glory at the expense of innocent people who suffer.Like I said. Selfish. He lets people suffer, animals, children...all so He can rescue some and get glory and punish others in an eternal firey hell to show His power and what happens to those who dare disobey Him. Creation's suffering is for the Creator's glory, period. That's how He intended it. How can anyone on here say that isn't selfish??
Maybe he does a lot more to help than you give him credit for, ever think of that?I'm so small and God's so big, why doesn't He do anything to help??
In order for our choice to be real, they must have consequences. In this case the raped stay raped, The unrepentant sinner faces God's wrath, and gets to spend an eternity in Hell for it. In the case of the repentant sinner Even his sins has consequences, in that Jesus was beaten and hanged on a cross for those sins.
Originally Posted by Sketcher:
I don't know, but a good number of people who have had truly terrible things happen to them have strong faith in God and in his goodness. If they can go through terrible things like sexual abuse, betrayal by family members, seeing their parents murdered, and believe in God's goodness, then why can't you?
Originally Posted by Sketcher:
The lesson here is that God would rather have people obey his word in the first place than disobey and sacrifice to make it better. God prizes obedience very highly. But what you're insinuating is that God is OK with sin, it's part of the plan to get him more glory. That's completely at odds with this Scripture and many others..
So not only does God prize obedience, he takes no pleasure in death and destruction. This again, is the opposite of what your view here is painting him as - someone who just throws lives away because he gets something out of it.
Originally Posted by Sketcher:
You're assuming God created that situation. The Bible tells us what God created: The trees, the animals, the oceans, the atmosphere, people - and it was good. People were good. But we disobeyed God's ways, and messed it all up. God doesn't sin against people. People do that.
Originally Posted by Sketcher:
So you would shake your fist at God, who hates sin rather than Satan, who is a true sadist and promotes even the most vile sins for his own pleasure?
Originally Posted by Sketcher:
The point of that verse is that no army can thwart God. God created all the angels. Some of them disobeyed him and rebelled against him. But the Bible does not say that Satan was created for that express purpose.
Originally Posted by Sketcher:
God is able to get glory out of a fallen world, but would he not get more glory if there were more obedience? If he would, then that disproves the notion that he lets this happen for the purpose of getting more glory. And that leaves us with two options: That he isn't smart enough to see this, or that he really isn't all that selfish after all. If he's not smart enough to see this, then that would logically mean that he's not omniscient, and if he's not omniscient, that takes some of the edge off his so-called culpability in the problem of evil. But God is omniscient according to Scripture. If he's omniscient, that would explain that he knows he would get at least as much, if not more glory from more people being obedient. Which means he knows he's leaving some glory on the table by allowing evil to exist. Which defeats the notion that he is selfishly pursuing glory at the expense of innocent people who suffer.
Originally Posted by Sketcher:
Maybe he does a lot more to help than you give him credit for, ever think of that?
all the logic in the world can't explain pain to the heart of someone who suffers.
It really helps to feel like you aren't alone. Please keep me in your prayers. And please only respond if you can do so with compassion for my pain,
Some reminders:
when the 3 Hebrew children were thrown into the furnace, Jesus was with them. A song brings out the fact that since Jesus is Eternal, the significance of this is that Jesus is still in the furnace of our afflictions!
I think the Cross says this to us ...
"if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together." (Romans 8:17)