Anglicans/Lutherans

[ratchet30]

Can anyone tell me the doctrinal and practical differences between Lutherans and conservative Anglicans such as the Anglican church in north America?

 

[ContraMundum]

Can anyone tell me the doctrinal and practical differences between Lutherans and conservative Anglicans such as the Anglican church in north America?

I trained in a Lutheran seminary...so maybe I should answer as best I can. Mind you, some people over at the Lutheran forum will probably disagree with some of what I say, but they have diversity just like we do.

It's almost impossible to really sort your question out, because ACNA is one denomination within Anglicanism, and Lutheranism has many forms in the USA.

In a nutshell, the main differences are that:

a) Lutherans do not have a unified doctrine of church polity (government) While Anglicans believe in a episcopal system with a notion of "Apostolic Succession", Lutheran church polity ranges from congregationalist right through to Episcopal (but it has to be said that none of the major Lutheran bodies in the US have Apostolic Succession and the Lutheran Confessions are generally deemed to reject the notion that it matters for the validity of the ministry of the Church)

b) Lutheran denominations have a varied, permeable and rather different view of the canon. Some of the NT books were historically questioned by Luther and later those who followed his lead, and many Lutherans will not draw doctrine from those books, but will use those books only in a secondary manner. No Lutheran church has ever listed the canon of scripture in their statements of faith as far I know, as have pretty much everyone else, but many Lutherans nonetheless have a Biblicist/fundamentalist view of the authority of scripture. Others of course have a very liberal view of scripture. Anglicans have a clear list of canonical books but a dreadful range of beliefs about them, but ACNA seems to be slightly more towards the orthodox view about this.

c) Lutherans insist on a "real presence" in the Lord's Supper, and any notion of the real presence that does not believe that the Body and Blood of Jesus is localized to the elements is rejected. In Anglicanism, the real presence can be understood in a couple of different ways, yet affirmed regardless.

d) Lutherans believe in baptismal regeneration. Many Anglicans do too, but the Lutherans have some division over whether or not regeneration itself is only attached to baptism. Many Anglicans, in particular evangelicals, believe it is an error to teach that regeneration is only connected to baptism. Some opponents of Lutheranism claim that Lutherans in some cases make baptism the object of faith and not Christ. This is not actually a legitimate accusation, but you may come across it.

e) Many Lutheran churches in the USA are mainly immigrant churches who fled religious persecution in the early 1800's when their nations started founding state churches that were unified with Reformed churches. Hence, US Lutheranism in many (not all) places has a bit of a persecution/exclusive/elitist complex, which is very clearly seen in the writings against "unionism" and on "church fellowship" from the 1800s by many American Lutheran founders. Churches today who follow in their footsteps tend to have a policy against altar, pulpit and prayer fellowship with other Christians, even other Lutherans. Fellowship with other Christians is rejected by those groups even in some cases to the point of personal prayer fellowship. Many Lutheran denominations in the USA are the result of the severance of fellowship over points of doctrine or practice over just about any conceivable disagreement in relation to those.

Having said that, other Lutheran churches have rejected this closed practice, or at least relaxed it, claiming that the Lutheran Confessions never spoke of such a doctrine to be practiced in such a closed manner. Anglicans generally have a "fenced" view of fellowship. Public fellowship (eg. in services) is usually assessed on the basis of agreement upon the Creeds etc., but this has been ignored by more liberal Anglicans. Likewise, in regards personal faith an Anglican can pretty much pray with whoever he or she likes without having to agree on every point of doctrine first.

f) Lutheran churches, like Reformed churches, are Confessional. Their beliefs are set down in Confessions of Faith. The Lutheran Confessions of Faith are a collection of Confessions written in the 1500s and completed in 1580, compiled into the "Book of Concord". There is a lot of diversity in regards their authority in the Lutheran churches today. But you can divide churches into those that consider the Confessions as true expositions of scripture (often called Confessional Lutherans) and those who regard them as true only when they agree with scripture. Likewise, some Lutheran churches do not believe all of the Confessions are binding on their pastors and people. Anglican churches like ACNA are largely Creedal, their statements of faith summarized in creeds and the common prayer of the congregations.

There is a lot of diversity on doctrine in both camps.

g) Many Lutheran churches reject the ordination of women, but some denominations have been practicing it longer than some Anglican churches. ACNA believes that each diocese can choose whether or not to ordain women.

h) Lutheran liturgical practice is quite similar to Anglican practice, but some historic portions have been removed from Lutheran liturgies. On the other hand, many celebrate Reformation Day, which is a great thing IMHO, and the older Lutheran practice of shriving prior to the service is an excellent practice. I wish we did it.

i) While ACNA is known to be slightly on the conservative side of Anglicanism, Lutheran churches are broad and often it takes some time to understand where each one stands.

From very conservative to liberal, I rank them thus. I shorten the list because there are dozens of Lutheran denominations in the US.

Very conservative examples:
Lutheran Churches of the Reformation
Church of the Lutheran Confession
Orthodox Confessional Lutheran Conference

Conservative examples:
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Evangelical Lutheran Synod

Broad example:
Evangelical Lutheran Church of America

j) Many Lutheran churches do not allow women's suffrage in any way shape or form. Others have a limited approach to women's suffrage, and others allow it fully. ACNA would allow women to hold office and vote etc.


Hope this helps. As I re-read it I think could state things differently, but please note that Lutheran churches are good places with lots of good sincere people. There are many similarities between Anglicanism and Lutheranism, obviously, and that would take a lot of posts to get through.

 

[AngCath]

ratchet, I'd be willing to answer any further questions you have (Contra did an excellent job of outlining the major points) as I am a former Anglican, now Lutheran.

 

[mark46]

You also asked about practical differences.

In the end, IMHO, these churches are so similar that conservative churches in both traditions are closer to one another than to liberal groups within the same church groups.

I suspect the biggest practical differences would be the distinctives of the individual local churches in your communities rather than the differences between denomination.

 

[Bryne]

In the end, IMHO, these churches are so similar that conservative churches in both traditions are closer to one another than to liberal groups within the same church groups

I agree. If there were a conservative Anglican church in my area, I may very well have become Anglican instead of Lutheran.

 

[AngCath]

You also asked about practical differences.

In the end, IMHO, these churches are so similar that conservative churches in both traditions are closer to one another than to liberal groups within the same church groups.

I suspect the biggest practical differences would be the distinctives of the individual local churches in your communities rather than the differences between denomination.

Agreed. In my locale, congregational differences (both Lutheran and Anglican) seem to represent wider variance than the two theological and liturgical traditions themselves.

 

[MKJ]

Agreed. In my locale, congregational differences (both Lutheran and Anglican) seem to represent wider variance than the two theological and liturgical traditions themselves.

Overall I would say the same is true here. 'Liberal' parishes of both groups are very similar. The conservative groups are greater in their difference because the conservative Lutherans are fairly evangelic and the conservative Anglicans are mostly Anglo-Catholic. Even the few conservative evangelical Anglicans would be more catholic in many ways than the Lutherans. There are very few conservative Lutherans, maybe only one congregation.

 

[Franny50]

I am still torn between The Lutheran and Episcopal church as a future spiritual home.I do believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary(that she is without original sin)and also have prayed for her intercession,which may not make me eligible to be received into a Lutheran congregation.I am still researching this issue.What does the Episcopal church teach about being saved by faith alone,or do they believe in salvation by faith+works?

 

[MKJ]

I am still torn between The Lutheran and Episcopal church as a future spiritual home.I do believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary(that she is without original sin)and also have prayed for her intercession,which may not make me eligible to be received into a Lutheran congregation.I am still researching this issue.What does the Episcopal church teach about being saved by faith alone,or do they believe in salvation by faith+works?

Actually I think the position of Catholics, Lutherans, and Anglicans on this is very close, with the caveat that Lutherans and Anglicans don't talk about separate temporal effects for sins.

But both would say that we are saved by faith, but that it isn't something that happens in a moment where you "get saved", it involves a kind of ongoing process of sanctification as well.

I think you could probably believe in the Immaculate Conception even as a Lutheran, as long as you understood that Lutherans are not required to believe it. And you could pray for saints intercessions in either church.

But practically you may find that neither does a lot of praying to Mary or saints in the liturgy.

To my mind one of the biggest differences would be how you feel about apostolic succession. Even there, many Anglicans do not think it is actually necessary. But if you do, then Lutheranism might not work for you.

 

[mark46]

This may not help, but I have been around several churches: Baptist, pentocostal, Catholic, Catholic Charismatic and now Anglican.

In ALL of them, I have taught and been taught that we are saved by grace though faith in Christ Jesus. In ALL of them, I have taken Luther's next step and taught that we are saved by grace ALONE, through faith ALONE in Christ Jesus alone.

I have confessed in all these churches that the "problem" is misunderstanding. We all believe that we are saved by the Grace of God, not by our works.

I am still torn between The Lutheran and Episcopal church as a future spiritual home.I do believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary(that she is without original sin)and also have prayed for her intercession,which may not make me eligible to be received into a Lutheran congregation.I am still researching this issue.What does the Episcopal church teach about being saved by faith alone,or do they believe in salvation by faith+works?